Re: Mailing List Etiquette

Re: Mailing List Etiquette

[Pavel Machek]

> This message is sent to this mailing list once a week.
> 

Could we maybe reduce the frequency of this spam a little bit?

>              1. Subscription requirements. [[24]rmk]
>                 Recently, we have had to impose a restriction on the mailing lists.
>                 You must be subscribed to the mailing list in order to post
>                 messages to that mailing list. This is because of the UK Data
>                 Protection laws. Only subscribe to these lists if you accept the
>                 legal notice displayed on the relevant pages; by subscribing, you
>                 accept the terms laid out in the legal notice. Answers will be
>                 copied to you.

WTF? Did not we just have huge flamewar explaining this is untrue?

>              6. Email attachments. [[36]rmk]
>                 Please ensure that all attachments are plain text. There is a limit
>                 of around 40KiB on the overall size of the message, so if you want
>                 to send a large attachment, please upload it to a
>              web site

I thought limit was recently raised?

>              10. Cross-posting between linux-arm* lists and other lists. [[40]rmk]
>                 Please do not do this. Subscribers on other lists may not be
>                 subscribed to the linux-arm lists, so when they try to reply to
>                 such a message, they will receive a bounce. This is deemed by
>                 others to be rude behaviour on the part of the person who
>                 originally cross-posted.

Again, in recent flamewar you claimed crossposting is
okay.
										Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

Re: Mailing List Etiquette

[Pavel Machek]

...plus, it still does not seem to list Erik as a list
maintainer... which is something you might want to fix.
									Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

Re: Mailing List Etiquette

[Marek Vasut]

Dne Pá 21. srpna 2009 09:26:07 Pavel Machek napsal(a):
> > This message is sent to this mailing list once a week.
>
> Could we maybe reduce the frequency of this spam a little bit?
Hi!
Agreed
>
> >              1. Subscription requirements. [[24]rmk]
> >                 Recently, we have had to impose a restriction on the
> > mailing lists. You must be subscribed to the mailing list in order to
> > post messages to that mailing list. This is because of the UK Data
> > Protection laws. Only subscribe to these lists if you accept the legal
> > notice displayed on the relevant pages; by subscribing, you accept the
> > terms laid out in the legal notice. Answers will be copied to you.
>
> WTF? Did not we just have huge flamewar explaining this is untrue?

We wont have to care about any additional legal notices or whatever if the 
list moved to vger, would we ?
>
> >              6. Email attachments. [[36]rmk]
> >                 Please ensure that all attachments are plain text. There
> > is a limit of around 40KiB on the overall size of the message, so if you
> > want to send a large attachment, please upload it to a web site
>
> I thought limit was recently raised?
>
> >              10. Cross-posting between linux-arm* lists and other lists.
> > [[40]rmk] Please do not do this. Subscribers on other lists may not be
> > subscribed to the linux-arm lists, so when they try to reply to such a
> > message, they will receive a bounce. This is deemed by others to be rude
> > behaviour on the part of the person who originally cross-posted.
>
> Again, in recent flamewar you claimed crossposting is
> okay.

Crossposting doesn't seem to work much, I got rejects on LAK when I CCed it, 
but it might have been fixed already, it was a few weeks ago.

> 										Pavel

Cheers!
Marek

Re: Mailing List Etiquette

[Russell King - ARM Linux]

Right, this does it.  I'm off on holiday as of now.

Guess what?  I've had enough of this crap.  I'm pulling the plug on
these lists.  Everyone, you know the email address to complain to.
One community killed by an "open list" zealot.

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 09:26:07AM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote:
> 
> > This message is sent to this mailing list once a week.
> > 
> 
> Could we maybe reduce the frequency of this spam a little bit?
> 
> >              1. Subscription requirements. [[24]rmk]
> >                 Recently, we have had to impose a restriction on the mailing lists.
> >                 You must be subscribed to the mailing list in order to post
> >                 messages to that mailing list. This is because of the UK Data
> >                 Protection laws. Only subscribe to these lists if you accept the
> >                 legal notice displayed on the relevant pages; by subscribing, you
> >                 accept the terms laid out in the legal notice. Answers will be
> >                 copied to you.
> 
> WTF? Did not we just have huge flamewar explaining this is untrue?
> 
> >              6. Email attachments. [[36]rmk]
> >                 Please ensure that all attachments are plain text. There is a limit
> >                 of around 40KiB on the overall size of the message, so if you want
> >                 to send a large attachment, please upload it to a
> >              web site
> 
> I thought limit was recently raised?
> 
> >              10. Cross-posting between linux-arm* lists and other lists. [[40]rmk]
> >                 Please do not do this. Subscribers on other lists may not be
> >                 subscribed to the linux-arm lists, so when they try to reply to
> >                 such a message, they will receive a bounce. This is deemed by
> >                 others to be rude behaviour on the part of the person who
> >                 originally cross-posted.
> 
> Again, in recent flamewar you claimed crossposting is
> okay.
> 										Pavel
> -- 
> (english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
> (cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

Re: Mailing List Etiquette

[Pavel Machek]

On Fri 2009-08-21 09:18:49, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
> Right, this does it.  I'm off on holiday as of now.

Cool.

> Guess what?  I've had enough of this crap.  I'm pulling the plug on
> these lists.  Everyone, you know the email address to complain to.
> One community killed by an "open list" zealot.

If you are not willing to keep information up to date, don't spam with
it. It is as simple as that. I'm looking forward to list administrator
who does not go ballistic every time problem is reported with his
list, and the one who does not call me names.
								Pavel

> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 09:26:07AM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote:
> > 
> > > This message is sent to this mailing list once a week.
> > > 
> > 
> > Could we maybe reduce the frequency of this spam a little bit?
> > 
> > >              1. Subscription requirements. [[24]rmk]
> > >                 Recently, we have had to impose a restriction on the mailing lists.
> > >                 You must be subscribed to the mailing list in order to post
> > >                 messages to that mailing list. This is because of the UK Data
> > >                 Protection laws. Only subscribe to these lists if you accept the
> > >                 legal notice displayed on the relevant pages; by subscribing, you
> > >                 accept the terms laid out in the legal notice. Answers will be
> > >                 copied to you.
> > 
> > WTF? Did not we just have huge flamewar explaining this is untrue?
> > 
> > >              6. Email attachments. [[36]rmk]
> > >                 Please ensure that all attachments are plain text. There is a limit
> > >                 of around 40KiB on the overall size of the message, so if you want
> > >                 to send a large attachment, please upload it to a
> > >              web site
> > 
> > I thought limit was recently raised?
> > 
> > >              10. Cross-posting between linux-arm* lists and other lists. [[40]rmk]
> > >                 Please do not do this. Subscribers on other lists may not be
> > >                 subscribed to the linux-arm lists, so when they try to reply to
> > >                 such a message, they will receive a bounce. This is deemed by
> > >                 others to be rude behaviour on the part of the person who
> > >                 originally cross-posted.
> > 
> > Again, in recent flamewar you claimed crossposting is
> > okay.
> > 										Pavel
> > -- 
> > (english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
> > (cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

Re: Mailing List Etiquette

[Russell King - ARM Linux]

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:30:28AM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote:
> On Fri 2009-08-21 09:18:49, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
> > Right, this does it.  I'm off on holiday as of now.
> 
> Cool.
> 
> > Guess what?  I've had enough of this crap.  I'm pulling the plug on
> > these lists.  Everyone, you know the email address to complain to.
> > One community killed by an "open list" zealot.
> 
> If you are not willing to keep information up to date, don't spam with
> it. It is as simple as that. I'm looking forward to list administrator
> who does not go ballistic every time problem is reported with his
> list, and the one who does not call me names.

Your constant whinging is the reason for the action which has now been
taken.  The lists are now off line until future notice, when I can deal
with the crap that constantly pours out of your keyboard.

It solves the problem of you receiving emails in your mailbox which you
don't like.  Unfortunately, it's to the detriment of everyone else who
was able to constructively communicate, who are now left in the lurch.

You were warned that this was going to be the outcome, and still you
persisted.

To me that shows you have an extremely selfish attitude.  Way to go.

Re: Mailing List Etiquette

[David Miller]

From: Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:39:53 +0100

> To me that shows you have an extremely selfish attitude.

Ok Mr. "My Way Or the Highway"

A lot of us are tired of your crap, and like Alan Cox I can't take you
seriously at all.

Re: Mailing List Etiquette

[Theodore Tso]

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 01:55:28AM -0700, David Miller wrote:
> From: Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:39:53 +0100
> 
> > To me that shows you have an extremely selfish attitude.
> 
> Ok Mr. "My Way Or the Highway"
> 
> A lot of us are tired of your crap, and like Alan Cox I can't take you
> seriously at all.

Seconded.  At this point, I would suggest the right answer is to make
sure the arm lists on vger have adequate archives (there are plenty of
list archiving services to choose from, including gmane; I'd suggest
using at least two for redundancy), and then forward to Linus a patch
which changes the mailing list pointers to vger.

It's clear that Russell is to stressed out to do a good job, and the
vger lists are very well run without having the spam problems that
Russell seems to be struggling to solve w/o using sledgehammer-to-kill-a-
gnat style solutions.

					- Ted

					 (who is a bystander but who is 
					 appalled by rmk's behaviour)

Re: Mailing List Etiquette

[Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz]

On Friday 21 August 2009 16:54:16 Theodore Tso wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 01:55:28AM -0700, David Miller wrote:
> > From: Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
> > Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:39:53 +0100
> > 
> > > To me that shows you have an extremely selfish attitude.
> > 
> > Ok Mr. "My Way Or the Highway"
> > 
> > A lot of us are tired of your crap, and like Alan Cox I can't take you
> > seriously at all.
> 
> Seconded.  At this point, I would suggest the right answer is to make

I'm not sure whether seconding ad-persona attacks in Russell's direction
from people who do absolutely no ARM work is the desirable way forward..

I can understand Pavel's arguments and has backed him once myself but ARM
co-maintainers have voiced plausible pro-LAK arguments in the meantime..

There has been progress on the issue recently but changes like that do
not happen overnight without serious (negative) impacts on the work flow
and require both planning and time to do properly.

Yet people continued to stress out Russell instead of giving him break..

Bart
(who is a bystander but who is appalled by the way LAK-issue was handled)

Re: Mailing List Etiquette

[Pavel Machek]

On Fri 2009-08-21 09:39:53, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:30:28AM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote:
> > On Fri 2009-08-21 09:18:49, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
> > > Right, this does it.  I'm off on holiday as of now.
> > 
> > Cool.
> > 
> > > Guess what?  I've had enough of this crap.  I'm pulling the plug on
> > > these lists.  Everyone, you know the email address to complain to.
> > > One community killed by an "open list" zealot.
> > 
> > If you are not willing to keep information up to date, don't spam with
> > it. It is as simple as that. I'm looking forward to list administrator
> > who does not go ballistic every time problem is reported with his
> > list, and the one who does not call me names.
> 
> Your constant whinging is the reason for the action which has now been
> taken.  The lists are now off line until future notice, when I can deal
> with the crap that constantly pours out of your keyboard.

So perhaps following patch is in order?
									Pavel

---

Switch ARM mailing lists to the ones that work.

Signed-off-by: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>

diff --git a/MAINTAINERS b/MAINTAINERS
index 66bbc53..d0a05f6 100644
--- a/MAINTAINERS
+++ b/MAINTAINERS
@@ -497,7 +497,7 @@ F:	arch/arm/include/asm/floppy.h
 
 ARM PORT
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/
@@ -546,7 +546,7 @@ S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/CLKDEV SUPPORT
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 F:	arch/arm/common/clkdev.c
 F:	arch/arm/include/asm/clkdev.h
 
@@ -568,7 +568,7 @@ F:	arch/arm/mach-gemini/
 
 ARM/EBSA110 MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-ebsa110/
@@ -592,7 +592,7 @@ F:	arch/arm/mm/*-fa*
 
 ARM/FOOTBRIDGE ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/include/asm/hardware/dec21285.h
@@ -728,7 +728,7 @@ S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/PT DIGITAL BOARD PORT
 M:	Stefan Eletzhofer <stefan.eletzhofer@eletztrick.de>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 
@@ -739,7 +739,7 @@ S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/RISCPC ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/common/time-acorn.c
@@ -758,7 +758,7 @@ S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/SAMSUNG ARM ARCHITECTURES
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/plat-s3c/
@@ -766,42 +766,42 @@ F:	arch/arm/plat-s3c24xx/
 
 ARM/S3C2410 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-s3c2410/
 
 ARM/S3C2440 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-s3c2440/
 
 ARM/S3C2442 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-s3c2442/
 
 ARM/S3C2443 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-s3c2443/
 
 ARM/S3C6400 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-s3c6400/
 
 ARM/S3C6410 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-s3c6410/
@@ -824,7 +824,7 @@ S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/VFP SUPPORT
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/vfp/
@@ -1501,7 +1501,7 @@ F:	drivers/infiniband/hw/cxgb3/
 
 CYBERPRO FB DRIVER
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	drivers/video/cyber2000fb.*
@@ -4106,7 +4106,7 @@ F:	drivers/media/video/pvrusb2/
 PXA2xx/PXA3xx SUPPORT
 M:	Eric Miao <eric.y.miao@gmail.com>
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-pxa/
 F:	drivers/pcmcia/pxa2xx*
@@ -4119,13 +4119,13 @@ F:	sound/soc/pxa
 PXA168 SUPPORT
 M:	Eric Miao <eric.y.miao@gmail.com>
 M:	Jason Chagas <jason.chagas@marvell.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 T:	git git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/ycmiao/pxa-linux-2.6.git
 S:	Maintained
 
 PXA910 SUPPORT
 M:	Eric Miao <eric.y.miao@gmail.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 T:	git git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/ycmiao/pxa-linux-2.6.git
 S:	Maintained
 
@@ -4561,7 +4561,7 @@ F:	drivers/misc/sgi-xp/
 SHARP LH SUPPORT (LH7952X & LH7A40X)
 M:	Marc Singer <elf@buici.com>
 W:	http://projects.buici.com/arm
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 F:	Documentation/arm/Sharp-LH/ADC-LH7-Touchscreen
 F:	arch/arm/mach-lh7a40x/


-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

Re: Mailing List Etiquette

[Eric Miao]

Pavel Machek wrote:
> On Fri 2009-08-21 09:39:53, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:30:28AM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote:
>>> On Fri 2009-08-21 09:18:49, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
>>>> Right, this does it.  I'm off on holiday as of now.
>>> Cool.
>>>
>>>> Guess what?  I've had enough of this crap.  I'm pulling the plug on
>>>> these lists.  Everyone, you know the email address to complain to.
>>>> One community killed by an "open list" zealot.
>>> If you are not willing to keep information up to date, don't spam with
>>> it. It is as simple as that. I'm looking forward to list administrator
>>> who does not go ballistic every time problem is reported with his
>>> list, and the one who does not call me names.
>> Your constant whinging is the reason for the action which has now been
>> taken.  The lists are now off line until future notice, when I can deal
>> with the crap that constantly pours out of your keyboard.
> 
> So perhaps following patch is in order?
> 									Pavel
> 

Is everyone happy now?  Can't we just solve the problem in a more elegant
way instead of irritating each other and showing disrespect?

I've been working on ARM-list for several years, there is some trivial
issues, nothing is perfect, but I found it working quite well and is
well managed. Russell has invested a lot effort in making this happen
indeed in the past several years, and someone need to see this fact.
Let's have more considerations for him:  what if you are forced to
change something you've devoted much in, and even with some difficult
and hard-to-tell reasons?

Well, I mean if there are really good reasons to move over to vger,
the vast majority of the ARM community would have already moved there,
there must be some values within the ARM-list.

It's OK there are some requirements to make this ML more open and 
works more like other ML on vger, but this thread apparently, shows
a bad way to solve problems.

And I don't like the patch, it doesn't solve any problem. Leaving for
each subsystem maintainers to make the choice will be a better idea
to me.

Re: Mailing List Etiquette

[Miles Bader]

Eric Miao <eric.y.miao@gmail.com> writes:
> Well, I mean if there are really good reasons to move over to vger,
> the vast majority of the ARM community would have already moved there,
> there must be some values within the ARM-list.

E.g., "inertia"...

-Miles

-- 
White, adj. and n. Black.

[PATCH] MAINTAINERS: ARM lists moved to vger.kernel.org

[Joe Perches]

On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 09:18 +0100, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
> Guess what?  I've had enough of this crap.  I'm pulling the plug on
> these lists.  Everyone, you know the email address to complain to.

Hi Russell.

I think you should either keep the lists open, but if not, please
apply this patch.

I see Pavel sent something similar, but this list is more complete
as there are multiple forms for linux-arm-kernel with and without tabs.

cheers, Joe

Russell King decided to close the linux-arm-kernel mailing lists

Signed-off-by: Joe Perches <joe@perches.com>
diff --git a/MAINTAINERS b/MAINTAINERS
index 60299a9..e72b49c 100644
--- a/MAINTAINERS
+++ b/MAINTAINERS
@@ -497,7 +497,7 @@ F:	arch/arm/include/asm/floppy.h
 
 ARM PORT
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/
@@ -508,51 +508,51 @@ F:	drivers/mmc/host/mmci.*
 
 ARM/ADI ROADRUNNER MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-ixp23xx/
 F:	arch/arm/mach-ixp23xx/include/mach/
 
 ARM/ADS SPHERE MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/AFEB9260 MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Sergey Lapin <slapin@ossfans.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/AJECO 1ARM MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/ATMEL AT91RM9200 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Andrew Victor <linux@maxim.org.za>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://maxim.org.za/at91_26.html
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/CIRRUS LOGIC EP93XX ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/CIRRUS LOGIC EDB9315A MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/CLKDEV SUPPORT
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 F:	arch/arm/common/clkdev.c
 F:	arch/arm/include/asm/clkdev.h
 
 ARM/COMPULAB CM-X270/EM-X270 and CM-X300 MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Mike Rapoport <mike@compulab.co.il>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/CORGI MACHINE SUPPORT
@@ -561,14 +561,14 @@ S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/CORTINA SYSTEMS GEMINI ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Paulius Zaleckas <paulius.zaleckas@teltonika.lt>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 T:	git git://gitorious.org/linux-gemini/mainline.git
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-gemini/
 
 ARM/EBSA110 MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-ebsa110/
@@ -586,13 +586,13 @@ F:	arch/arm/mach-pxa/ezx.c
 
 ARM/FARADAY FA526 PORT
 M:	Paulius Zaleckas <paulius.zaleckas@teltonika.lt>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mm/*-fa*
 
 ARM/FOOTBRIDGE ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/include/asm/hardware/dec21285.h
@@ -600,17 +600,17 @@ F:	arch/arm/mach-footbridge/
 
 ARM/FREESCALE IMX / MXC ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Sascha Hauer <kernel@pengutronix.de>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/GLOMATION GESBC9312SX MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/GUMSTIX MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Steve Sakoman <sakoman@gmail.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/H4700 (HP IPAQ HX4700) MACHINE SUPPORT
@@ -630,55 +630,55 @@ F:	arch/arm/mach-sa1100/include/mach/jornada720.h
 ARM/INTEL IOP32X ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
 M:	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Supported
 
 ARM/INTEL IOP33X ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Supported
 
 ARM/INTEL IOP13XX ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
 M:	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Supported
 
 ARM/INTEL IQ81342EX MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
 M:	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Supported
 
 ARM/INTEL IXP2000 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/INTEL IXDP2850 MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/INTEL IXP23XX ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/INTEL XSC3 (MANZANO) ARM CORE
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
 M:	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Supported
 
 ARM/IP FABRICS DOUBLE ESPRESSO MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/LOGICPD PXA270 MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/MAGICIAN MACHINE SUPPORT
@@ -687,7 +687,7 @@ S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/MIOA701 MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Robert Jarzmik <robert.jarzmik@free.fr>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 F:	arch/arm/mach-pxa/mioa701.c
 S:	Maintained
 
@@ -728,18 +728,18 @@ S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/PT DIGITAL BOARD PORT
 M:	Stefan Eletzhofer <stefan.eletzhofer@eletztrick.de>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/RADISYS ENP2611 MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/RISCPC ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/common/time-acorn.c
@@ -758,7 +758,7 @@ S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/SAMSUNG ARM ARCHITECTURES
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/plat-s3c/
@@ -766,65 +766,65 @@ F:	arch/arm/plat-s3c24xx/
 
 ARM/S3C2410 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-s3c2410/
 
 ARM/S3C2440 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-s3c2440/
 
 ARM/S3C2442 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-s3c2442/
 
 ARM/S3C2443 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-s3c2443/
 
 ARM/S3C6400 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-s3c6400/
 
 ARM/S3C6410 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.fluff.org/ben/linux/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-s3c6410/
 
 ARM/TECHNOLOGIC SYSTEMS TS7250 MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/THECUS N2100 MACHINE SUPPORT
 M:	Lennert Buytenhek <kernel@wantstofly.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/NUVOTON W90X900 ARM ARCHITECTURE
 M:	Wan ZongShun <mcuos.com@gmail.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.mcuos.com
 S:	Maintained
 
 ARM/VFP SUPPORT
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/vfp/
@@ -923,7 +923,7 @@ F:	include/linux/atm*
 
 ATMEL AT91 MCI DRIVER
 M:	Nicolas Ferre <nicolas.ferre@atmel.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.atmel.com/products/AT91/
 W:	http://www.at91.com/
 S:	Maintained
@@ -1501,7 +1501,7 @@ F:	drivers/infiniband/hw/cxgb3/
 
 CYBERPRO FB DRIVER
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 W:	http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 S:	Maintained
 F:	drivers/video/cyber2000fb.*
@@ -2046,7 +2046,7 @@ F:	drivers/i2c/busses/i2c-cpm.c
 FREESCALE IMX / MXC FRAMEBUFFER DRIVER
 M:	Sascha Hauer <kernel@pengutronix.de>
 L:	linux-fbdev-devel@lists.sourceforge.net (moderated for non-subscribers)
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/plat-mxc/include/mach/imxfb.h
 F:	drivers/video/imxfb.c
@@ -3398,7 +3398,7 @@ F:	include/linux/meye.h
 
 MOTOROLA IMX MMC/SD HOST CONTROLLER INTERFACE DRIVER
 M:	Pavel Pisa <ppisa@pikron.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 F:	drivers/mmc/host/imxmmc.*
 
@@ -4106,7 +4106,7 @@ F:	drivers/media/video/pvrusb2/
 PXA2xx/PXA3xx SUPPORT
 M:	Eric Miao <eric.y.miao@gmail.com>
 M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 F:	arch/arm/mach-pxa/
 F:	drivers/pcmcia/pxa2xx*
@@ -4119,13 +4119,13 @@ F:	sound/soc/pxa
 PXA168 SUPPORT
 M:	Eric Miao <eric.y.miao@gmail.com>
 M:	Jason Chagas <jason.chagas@marvell.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 T:	git git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/ycmiao/pxa-linux-2.6.git
 S:	Maintained
 
 PXA910 SUPPORT
 M:	Eric Miao <eric.y.miao@gmail.com>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 T:	git git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/ycmiao/pxa-linux-2.6.git
 S:	Maintained
 
@@ -4366,7 +4366,7 @@ F:	net/iucv/
 
 S3C24XX SD/MMC Driver
 M:	Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org>
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk (subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Supported
 F:	drivers/mmc/host/s3cmci.*
 
@@ -4561,7 +4561,7 @@ F:	drivers/misc/sgi-xp/
 SHARP LH SUPPORT (LH7952X & LH7A40X)
 M:	Marc Singer <elf@buici.com>
 W:	http://projects.buici.com/arm
-L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
+L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
 F:	Documentation/arm/Sharp-LH/ADC-LH7-Touchscreen
 F:	arch/arm/mach-lh7a40x/

Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: ARM lists moved to vger.kernel.org

[Mikael Pettersson]

Joe Perches writes:
 > On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 09:18 +0100, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
 > > Guess what?  I've had enough of this crap.  I'm pulling the plug on
 > > these lists.  Everyone, you know the email address to complain to.
 > 
 > Hi Russell.
 > 
 > I think you should either keep the lists open, but if not, please
 > apply this patch.
 > 
 > I see Pavel sent something similar, but this list is more complete
 > as there are multiple forms for linux-arm-kernel with and without tabs.
 > 
 > cheers, Joe
 > 
 > Russell King decided to close the linux-arm-kernel mailing lists
 > 
 > Signed-off-by: Joe Perches <joe@perches.com>
 > diff --git a/MAINTAINERS b/MAINTAINERS
 > index 60299a9..e72b49c 100644
 > --- a/MAINTAINERS
 > +++ b/MAINTAINERS
 > @@ -497,7 +497,7 @@ F:	arch/arm/include/asm/floppy.h
 >  
 >  ARM PORT
 >  M:	Russell King <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
 > -L:	linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk	(subscribers-only)
 > +L:	linux-arm@vger.kernel.org

Oh great. Today David Woodhouse (I guess) auto-subscribed me to yet
another arm kernel list @ infradead. So now I have two or three to
choose from. How wonderful. Might as well just use LKML.

I couldn't find an archive for the arm list @ vger. Does it have one?
A mailing list without an archive isn't acceptable, IMO.

Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: ARM lists moved to vger.kernel.org

[Joe Perches]

On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 13:54 +0200, Mikael Pettersson wrote:
> Joe Perches writes:
>  > On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 09:18 +0100, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
>  > > Guess what?  I've had enough of this crap.  I'm pulling the plug on
>  > > these lists.  Everyone, you know the email address to complain to.
>  > Russell King decided to close the linux-arm-kernel mailing lists
> I couldn't find an archive for the arm list @ vger. Does it have one?
> A mailing list without an archive isn't acceptable, IMO.

http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.arm

Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: ARM lists moved to vger.kernel.org

[Martin Bogomolni]

This confusion, between shutting down the list, and over which list
should take precedence could not have come at a worse time.  I have a
number of Cortex-A9 related patches in the pipeline to add a new
board, platform, and power management features.

Is the @infradead, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, or
linux-arm@vger.kernel.org the proper place to post patches?