From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1754097Ab0CEPsS (ORCPT ); Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:48:18 -0500 Received: from 74-93-104-97-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net ([74.93.104.97]:55441 "EHLO sunset.davemloft.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752516Ab0CEPsR (ORCPT ); Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:48:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 07:48:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <20100305.074835.159078083.davem@davemloft.net> To: daniel@fooishbar.org Cc: skeggsb@gmail.com, airlied@linux.ie, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, jbarnes@virtuousgeek.org, dri-devel@lists.sf.net, mingo@elte.hu, torvalds@linux-foundation.org, alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk Subject: Re: [git pull] drm request 3 From: David Miller In-Reply-To: <20100305154009.GC2505@tempa> References: <20100305151754.GB2505@tempa> <20100305.072612.186421758.davem@davemloft.net> <20100305154009.GC2505@tempa> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.3 on Emacs 23.1 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org From: Daniel Stone Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 17:40:09 +0200 > On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 07:26:12AM -0800, David Miller wrote: >> In fact, I argue that the moment nouveau went into Fedora and >> was turned on by default, the interfaces needed to be frozen. > > That's a matter for the Fedora kernel team; for better or worse, they > made the choices they did, which included going through all the relevant > pain to support this. They didn't consider it suitable for upstream > because they didn't think everyone else should be forced to endure that > pain. By not merging it upstream the pain is larger not smaller. It's enabled by default, so you therefore can't test upstream kernels by default. And as I showed already, even if you jump through the hoops to make it work (building noveau from out of tree in the upstream kernel) you'll end up getting screwed when the API changes anyways. Using VESA or whatever else you've suggested is just not a reasonable alternative. You can't unleash something like this on a userbase of this magnitude and then throw your hands up in the air and say "I'm not willing to support this in a reasonable way." We're better than that.