From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1756705Ab0CEAYu (ORCPT ); Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:24:50 -0500 Received: from bombadil.infradead.org ([18.85.46.34]:51250 "EHLO bombadil.infradead.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1756024Ab0CEAYt (ORCPT ); Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:24:49 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:24:15 -0500 From: Kyle McMartin To: Linus Torvalds Cc: Dave Airlie , Stephane Marchesin , Matthew Garrett , Dave Airlie , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.sf.net Subject: Re: [git pull] drm request 3 Message-ID: <20100305002415.GG12443@bombadil.infradead.org> References: <20100304195302.GA24856@srcf.ucam.org> <6a89f9d51003041257j39fde3b6y8bd3336d77f7cf7a@mail.gmail.com> <21d7e9971003041503p726ecbebi4b0b97854c5824de@mail.gmail.com> <21d7e9971003041535g9dbfe46k67f64aa4219da0b8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 03:53:32PM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote: > Even if Stepane doesn't care, people inside RedHat/Fedora must care. Are > you guys simply planning on never supporting F12 with 2.6.34? I'd expect > it to be a _major_ pain to have that whole hardcoded "X and kernel must > always change in lockstep". > Frankly, I completely agree with you. This kind of shit makes it extremely difficult for users to run, say, 2.6.33 on F-12 without us doing a backport. Thankfully Ben takes care of that for me, usually, by keeping nouveau up to date with upstream in the various Fedora's, but it's still a set of shackles that I'm pretty sure none of us want. (Not only that, but it means if you update, you may need to do a full reboot before you can start X again, which is pretty disappointing.) For example, right now, Fedora 11's 2.6.30 kernel has nouveau 12, with nouveau 12 userspace. For Fedora 11's 2.6.32 kernel, instead of updating the userspace stuff, I forward ported the old DRM entirely, bringing with it whatever bugs it had, simply because DRM is such a nightmare. It's already impossible to run Fedora 13's 2.6.33 kernel on 12 since Ben put the nouveau git changes for the new ABI in there already. So we'll have to drop those from the F-13 2.6.33 for the F-12 2.6.33... This situation /sucks/ for users. Personally, I think we committed to a stable update ABI when nouveau got a MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE and started binding by default. But hey, I'm just the kernel maintainer, and I didn't pipe up then, which was my mistake. If we're going to ram something at users by default, we should at least try to guarantee that they'll be able to restart X and have things continue to work. That said, whether you think it's a lame excuse or not, staging was clearly labelled as buyer beware. I'm personally sorry that you got burned by nouveau on Fedora both these times, but we're really just trying to help, and not hinder things. (Maybe I should commit a patch to rip out the module aliases for nouveau, but I suspect I'd have more people screaming for blood that way. Sigh.) regards, Kyle