Supporting SYSRQ on broken laptops like the thinkpad T530

Supporting SYSRQ on broken laptops like the thinkpad T530

[Marc MERLIN]

In its infinite wisdom, lenovo has removed the sysrq key on the latest
thinkpads, and replaced it with a stupid ALT+FN+S key combination, which
doesn't really work for doing sysrq from the console (nor do I know how the
genius who did that intended for SYSRQ-S to work).
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/T430-s-T530-Where-are-the-shortcut-function-keys-break-Pause-etc/ta-p/781749

I realize that one solution is to throw my laptop window at a suitable high
floorand replace it with one from a vendor that doesn't randomly remove keys
from the keyboard.
That said, I was wondering if there were other solutions, especially
considering that thinkpads used to be the better linux laptops.

Thanks,
Marc
-- 
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/  

Re: Supporting SYSRQ on broken laptops like the thinkpad T530

[Roland Eggner]

On 2013-01-08 Tuesday at 15:09 -0800 Marc MERLIN wrote:
> In its infinite wisdom, lenovo has removed the sysrq key on the latest
> thinkpads, and replaced it with a stupid ALT+FN+S key combination, which
> doesn't really work for doing sysrq from the console (nor do I know how the
> genius who did that intended for SYSRQ-S to work).
> http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/T430-s-T530-Where-are-the-shortcut-function-keys-break-Pause-etc/ta-p/781749
> 
> I realize that one solution is to throw my laptop window at a suitable high
> floorand replace it with one from a vendor that doesn't randomly remove keys
> from the keyboard.
> That said, I was wondering if there were other solutions, especially
> considering that thinkpads used to be the better linux laptops.

My Dell “Precision M4500” notebook suffers similar (same?) problem.  So far 
I could not find a solution better than this:  e.g. Alt-Fn-SysRq-s

press and hold Alt
press and hold Fn
press and leave F10|SysRq
leave Fn
press and leave s
leave Alt

Several months ago a LKML user claimed, his cat had managed to press 
Alt-Fn-SysRq-c on his Dell Latitude notebook with similar keyboard, and provided 
photos showing the kernel crash message ;)

-- 
Roland

Re: Supporting SYSRQ on broken laptops like the thinkpad T530

[Marc MERLIN]

On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 03:36:44AM +0100, Roland Eggner wrote:
> On 2013-01-08 Tuesday at 15:09 -0800 Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > In its infinite wisdom, lenovo has removed the sysrq key on the latest
> > thinkpads, and replaced it with a stupid ALT+FN+S key combination, which
> > doesn't really work for doing sysrq from the console (nor do I know how the
> > genius who did that intended for SYSRQ-S to work).
> > http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/T430-s-T530-Where-are-the-shortcut-function-keys-break-Pause-etc/ta-p/781749
> > 
> > I realize that one solution is to throw my laptop window at a suitable high
> > floorand replace it with one from a vendor that doesn't randomly remove keys
> > from the keyboard.
> > That said, I was wondering if there were other solutions, especially
> > considering that thinkpads used to be the better linux laptops.
> 
> My Dell “Precision M4500” notebook suffers similar (same?) problem.  So far 
> I could not find a solution better than this:  e.g. Alt-Fn-SysRq-s
> 
> press and hold Alt
> press and hold Fn
> press and leave F10|SysRq
> leave Fn
> press and leave s
> leave Alt

Holy crap. That works for me too. If only lenovo could have been bothered to
document it properly. It's still a pitty to type and remmember the exact
hold and release key sequences, but it's better than nothing.

Thanks much.

> Several months ago a LKML user claimed, his cat had managed to press 
> Alt-Fn-SysRq-c on his Dell Latitude notebook with similar keyboard, and provided 
> photos showing the kernel crash message ;)

Yeah, but my cat is not nearly smart enough for that :)

Thanks for your help again,
Marc
-- 
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/  

Re: Supporting SYSRQ on broken laptops like the thinkpad T530

[Marc MERLIN]

On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 03:36:44AM +0100, Roland Eggner wrote:
> On 2013-01-08 Tuesday at 15:09 -0800 Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > In its infinite wisdom, lenovo has removed the sysrq key on the latest
> > thinkpads, and replaced it with a stupid ALT+FN+S key combination, which
> > doesn't really work for doing sysrq from the console (nor do I know how the
> > genius who did that intended for SYSRQ-S to work).
> > http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/T430-s-T530-Where-are-the-shortcut-function-keys-break-Pause-etc/ta-p/781749
> > 
> > I realize that one solution is to throw my laptop window at a suitable high
> > floorand replace it with one from a vendor that doesn't randomly remove keys
> > from the keyboard.
> > That said, I was wondering if there were other solutions, especially
> > considering that thinkpads used to be the better linux laptops.
> 
> My Dell “Precision M4500” notebook suffers similar (same?) problem.  So far 
> I could not find a solution better than this:  e.g. Alt-Fn-SysRq-s
> 
> press and hold Alt
> press and hold Fn
> press and leave F10|SysRq
> leave Fn
> press and leave s
> leave Alt

Just for the sake of the archives, turns out that on the lenovo T430 and T530 
you should ignore the Lenovo documentation I quoted above, and you can 
indeed use the PrtSc key between Right Alt and Right Ctrl, that key works
just fine for Sysrq.

I have no idea why Lenovo felt they had to document some complicated
alternate software sysrq with Fn+S

Anyway, hope this helps someone.

Marc
-- 
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/  

Re: Supporting SYSRQ on broken laptops like the thinkpad T530

[Pavel Machek]

On Fri 2013-03-22 15:31:41, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 03:36:44AM +0100, Roland Eggner wrote:
> > On 2013-01-08 Tuesday at 15:09 -0800 Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > > In its infinite wisdom, lenovo has removed the sysrq key on the latest
> > > thinkpads, and replaced it with a stupid ALT+FN+S key combination, which
> > > doesn't really work for doing sysrq from the console (nor do I know how the
> > > genius who did that intended for SYSRQ-S to work).
> > > http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/T430-s-T530-Where-are-the-shortcut-function-keys-break-Pause-etc/ta-p/781749
> > > 
> > > I realize that one solution is to throw my laptop window at a suitable high
> > > floorand replace it with one from a vendor that doesn't randomly remove keys
> > > from the keyboard.
> > > That said, I was wondering if there were other solutions, especially
> > > considering that thinkpads used to be the better linux laptops.
> > 
> > My Dell “Precision M4500” notebook suffers similar (same?) problem.  So far 
> > I could not find a solution better than this:  e.g. Alt-Fn-SysRq-s
> > 
> > press and hold Alt
> > press and hold Fn
> > press and leave F10|SysRq
> > leave Fn
> > press and leave s
> > leave Alt
> 
> Just for the sake of the archives, turns out that on the lenovo T430 and T530 
> you should ignore the Lenovo documentation I quoted above, and you can 
> indeed use the PrtSc key between Right Alt and Right Ctrl, that key works
> just fine for Sysrq.
> 
> I have no idea why Lenovo felt they had to document some complicated
> alternate software sysrq with Fn+S

Well... I feel resposible for sysrq stuff... I wanted it to be
non-intrusive. But it might have been bad choice - sysrq was not meant
to be used as a shift.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. Don't blame lenovo for
that.

Maybe it should be modified to take sysrq and _then_ key?

Or maybe we should use something like lshift+rshift+lalt+ralt+key?

									Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

Re: Supporting SYSRQ on broken laptops like the thinkpad T530

[Marc MERLIN]

On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 06:56:28PM +0100, Pavel Machek wrote:
> Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. Don't blame lenovo for
> that.
> 
> Maybe it should be modified to take sysrq and _then_ key?
> 
> Or maybe we should use something like lshift+rshift+lalt+ralt+key?

It can't hurt to add alternatives like the one you suggested. They don't
have to be convenient, although the one you suggest takes 5 fingers at
the same time :)

Is there anything that uses
shift+ctrl+alt + key 
in userspace?

I checked enlightenment 17, they have crazy key bindings, but nothing
that uses all 3 modifier keys at the same time.
If that's not safe, feel free to add one or 2 more just to be safe.

Thanks for suggesting this.

Marc
-- 
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/

Re: Supporting SYSRQ on broken laptops like the thinkpad T530

[Steven Noonan]

On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz> wrote:
> On Fri 2013-03-22 15:31:41, Marc MERLIN wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 03:36:44AM +0100, Roland Eggner wrote:
>> > On 2013-01-08 Tuesday at 15:09 -0800 Marc MERLIN wrote:
>> > > In its infinite wisdom, lenovo has removed the sysrq key on the latest
>> > > thinkpads, and replaced it with a stupid ALT+FN+S key combination, which
>> > > doesn't really work for doing sysrq from the console (nor do I know how the
>> > > genius who did that intended for SYSRQ-S to work).
>> > > http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/T430-s-T530-Where-are-the-shortcut-function-keys-break-Pause-etc/ta-p/781749
>> > >
>> > > I realize that one solution is to throw my laptop window at a suitable high
>> > > floorand replace it with one from a vendor that doesn't randomly remove keys
>> > > from the keyboard.
>> > > That said, I was wondering if there were other solutions, especially
>> > > considering that thinkpads used to be the better linux laptops.
>> >
>> > My Dell “Precision M4500” notebook suffers similar (same?) problem.  So far
>> > I could not find a solution better than this:  e.g. Alt-Fn-SysRq-s
>> >
>> > press and hold Alt
>> > press and hold Fn
>> > press and leave F10|SysRq
>> > leave Fn
>> > press and leave s
>> > leave Alt
>>
>> Just for the sake of the archives, turns out that on the lenovo T430 and T530
>> you should ignore the Lenovo documentation I quoted above, and you can
>> indeed use the PrtSc key between Right Alt and Right Ctrl, that key works
>> just fine for Sysrq.
>>
>> I have no idea why Lenovo felt they had to document some complicated
>> alternate software sysrq with Fn+S
>
> Well... I feel resposible for sysrq stuff... I wanted it to be
> non-intrusive. But it might have been bad choice - sysrq was not meant
> to be used as a shift.
>
> Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. Don't blame lenovo for
> that.
>
> Maybe it should be modified to take sysrq and _then_ key?
>
> Or maybe we should use something like lshift+rshift+lalt+ralt+key?
>

I vote for "something like". Some keyboards (such as my Thinkpad X230
with UK layout) have lshift, lalt, rshift, but no ralt. the ralt is
replaced by AltGr.