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Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 09:49:40 -0700
From: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
To: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
Cc: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>,
        linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
        KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>,
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        Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
        David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] sys_membarrier(): system/process-wide memory barrier
 (x86) (v12)
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On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 05:37:56PM +0100, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 01:13:36PM +0000, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> > > Its basically: WMB + ACQUIRE, which theoretically can leak a read in,
> > > but nobody sane _delays_ reads, you want to speculate reads, not
> > > postpone.
> > 
> > If I believe the memory ordering table at
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_ordering , there appears
> > to be quite a few architectures that can reorder loads after loads,
> > and loads after stores: Alpha, ARMv7, PA-RISC, SPARC RMO, x86 oostore
> > and ia64. There may be subtle details that would allow us to
> > do without the barriers in specific situations, but for that I'd
> > very much like to hear what Paul has to say.
> 
> So I was starting to write that you can get load after load by one
> speculating more than the other, but I suppose you can delay loads just
> fine too.
> 
> Imagine getting a cache miss on a load, the OoO engine can then continue
> execution until it hits a hard dependency, so you're effectively
> delaying the load.
> 
> So yeah, if we want to be able to replace smp_rmb() with a
> barrier+sys_membar() we need to promote the smp_mb__before_spinlock() to
> smp_mb__after_unlock_lock() or so, that would only penalize PPC a bit.

Agreed, though if Mathieu is dropping the expedited version for the
moment, this should not be required yet, right?

							Thanx, Paul