linux-kernel.vger.kernel.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
To: John Stultz <john.stultz@linaro.org>
Cc: lkml <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Prarit Bhargava <prarit@redhat.com>,
	Daniel Bristot de Oliveira <bristot@redhat.com>,
	Richard Cochran <richardcochran@gmail.com>,
	Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Jiri Bohac <jbohac@suse.cz>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Shuah Khan <shuahkh@osg.samsung.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH 4/4] time: Do leapsecond adjustment in gettime fastpaths
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 11:01:54 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150602090154.GA2590@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1432931068-4980-5-git-send-email-john.stultz@linaro.org>


* John Stultz <john.stultz@linaro.org> wrote:

> Currently, leapsecond adjustments are done at tick time.
> 
> As a result, the leapsecond was applied at the first timer
> tick *after* the leapsecond (~1-10ms late depending on HZ),
> rather then exactly on the second edge.
> 
> This was in part historical from back when we were always
> tick based, but correcting this since has been avoided since
> it adds extra conditional checks in the gettime fastpath,
> which has performance overhead.
> 
> However, it was recently pointed out that ABS_TIME
> CLOCK_REALTIME timers set for right after the leapsecond
> could fire a second early, since some timers may be expired
> before we trigger the timekeeping timer, which then applies
> the leapsecond.
> 
> This isn't quite as bad as it sounds, since behaviorally
> it is similar to what is possible w/ ntpd made leapsecond
> adjustments done w/o using the kernel discipline. Where
> due to latencies, timers may fire just prior to the
> settimeofday call. (Also, one should note that all
> applications using CLOCK_REALTIME timers should always be
> careful, since they are prone to quirks from settimeofday()
> disturbances.)
> 
> However, the purpose of having the kernel do the leap adjustment
> is to avoid such latencies, so I think this is worth fixing.
> 
> So in order to properly keep those timers from firing a second
> early, this patch modifies the gettime accessors to do the
> extra checks to apply the leapsecond adjustment on the second
> edge. This prevents the timer core from expiring timers too
> early.
> 
> This patch does not handle VDSO time implementations, so
> userspace using vdso gettime will still see the leapsecond
> applied at the first timer tick after the leapsecond.
> This is a bit of a tradeoff, since the performance impact
> would be greatest to VDSO implementations, and since vdso
> interfaces don't provide the TIME_OOP flag, one can't
> distinquish the leapsecond from a time discontinuity (such
> as settimeofday), so correcting the VDSO may not be as
> important there.
> 
> Apologies to Richard Cochran, who pushed for such a change
> years ago, which I resisted due to the concerns about the
> performance overhead.
> 
> While I suspect this isn't extremely critical, folks who
> care about strict leap-second correctness will likely
> want to watch this, and it will likely be a -stable candidate.
> 
> Cc: Prarit Bhargava <prarit@redhat.com>
> Cc: Daniel Bristot de Oliveira <bristot@redhat.com>
> Cc: Richard Cochran <richardcochran@gmail.com>
> Cc: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>
> Cc: Jiri Bohac <jbohac@suse.cz>
> Cc: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
> Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>
> Cc: Shuah Khan <shuahkh@osg.samsung.com>
> Originally-suggested-by: Richard Cochran <richardcochran@gmail.com>
> Reported-by: Daniel Bristot de Oliveira <bristot@redhat.com>
> Reported-by: Prarit Bhargava <prarit@redhat.com>
> Signed-off-by: John Stultz <john.stultz@linaro.org>
> ---
>  include/linux/time64.h              |  1 +
>  include/linux/timekeeper_internal.h |  7 +++
>  kernel/time/ntp.c                   | 73 +++++++++++++++++++++++++---
>  kernel/time/ntp_internal.h          |  1 +
>  kernel/time/timekeeping.c           | 97 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-----
>  5 files changed, 159 insertions(+), 20 deletions(-)

So I don't like the complexity of this at all: why do we add over 100 lines of 
code for something that occurs (literally) once in a blue moon?

... and for that reason I'm not surprised at all that it broke in non-obvious 
ways.

Instead of having these super rare special events, how about implementing leap 
second smearing instead? That's far less radical and a lot easier to test as well, 
as it's a continuous mechanism. It will also confuse user-space a lot less, 
because there are no sudden time jumps.

Secondly, why is there a directional flag? I thought leap seconds can only be 
inserted.

So all in one, the leap second code is fragile and complex - lets re-think the 
whole topic instead of complicating it even more ...

Thanks,

	Ingo

  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-06-02  9:02 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 40+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-05-29 20:24 [RFC][PATCH 0/4] Fixes for leapsecond expiring early ABS_TIME CLOCK_REALTIME timers John Stultz
2015-05-29 20:24 ` [RFC][PATCH 1/4] selftests: timers: Add leap-second timer edge testing to leap-a-day.c John Stultz
2015-05-29 20:24 ` [RFC][PATCH 2/4] timer_list: Add the base offset so remaining nsecs are accurate for non monotonic timers John Stultz
2015-05-29 20:24 ` [RFC][PATCH 3/4] ntp: Use printk_deferred in leapsecond path John Stultz
2015-06-02 10:31   ` Jiri Bohac
2015-06-02 10:43     ` Jiri Kosina
2015-06-02 16:14       ` John Stultz
2015-06-02 16:04     ` John Stultz
2015-05-29 20:24 ` [RFC][PATCH 4/4] time: Do leapsecond adjustment in gettime fastpaths John Stultz
2015-05-31 16:05   ` Richard Cochran
2015-06-02  9:01   ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2015-06-02  9:21     ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-06-02 14:09       ` John Stultz
2015-06-02 15:52     ` John Stultz
2015-06-03  9:04       ` Ingo Molnar
2015-06-03 17:44         ` John Stultz
2015-06-04  6:48           ` Ingo Molnar
2015-06-05  0:08             ` John Stultz
2015-06-05  7:29               ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-06-05  9:04                 ` Richard Cochran
2015-06-05  9:10                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-06-05 14:12                     ` Richard Cochran
2015-06-05 17:28                       ` John Stultz
2015-06-06  9:44                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-06-08 17:55                       ` John Stultz
2015-06-08 19:05                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-06-08 20:02                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-06-05 11:37                   ` Prarit Bhargava
2015-06-05 12:07                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-06-05 14:22                 ` Richard Cochran
2015-06-05 17:24                 ` John Stultz
2015-05-31 13:55 ` [RFC][PATCH 0/4] Fixes for leapsecond expiring early ABS_TIME CLOCK_REALTIME timers Prarit Bhargava
2015-06-01 11:57 ` Prarit Bhargava
2015-06-01 17:02   ` John Stultz
2015-06-01 17:43     ` Prarit Bhargava
2015-06-01 20:18 ` Daniel Bristot de Oliveira
2015-06-01 20:32   ` John Stultz
2015-06-01 21:42   ` Prarit Bhargava
2015-06-01 22:29     ` Daniel Bristot de Oliveira
2015-06-02  6:19       ` John Stultz

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20150602090154.GA2590@gmail.com \
    --to=mingo@kernel.org \
    --cc=a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl \
    --cc=bristot@redhat.com \
    --cc=jack@suse.cz \
    --cc=jbohac@suse.cz \
    --cc=john.stultz@linaro.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=mingo@redhat.com \
    --cc=prarit@redhat.com \
    --cc=richardcochran@gmail.com \
    --cc=shuahkh@osg.samsung.com \
    --cc=tglx@linutronix.de \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).