From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1032256AbbKFHoa (ORCPT ); Fri, 6 Nov 2015 02:44:30 -0500 Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com ([209.85.212.178]:35850 "EHLO mail-wi0-f178.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1032049AbbKFHo3 (ORCPT ); Fri, 6 Nov 2015 02:44:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 08:44:24 +0100 From: Ingo Molnar To: Linus Torvalds , Stephen Smalley , Matt Fleming Cc: Dave Jones , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Thomas Gleixner , "H. Peter Anvin" , Borislav Petkov , Andrew Morton , Andy Lutomirski , Denys Vlasenko , Kees Cook Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] x86/mm changes for v4.4 Message-ID: <20151106074424.GA17053@gmail.com> References: <20151103111649.GA3477@gmail.com> <20151104233907.GA25925@codemonkey.org.uk> <20151105021710.GA22941@codemonkey.org.uk> <20151106065549.GA2031@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20151106065549.GA2031@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org (resent with Matt's email address fixed.) * Ingo Molnar wrote: > > * Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 6:17 PM, Dave Jones wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 04, 2015 at 05:31:59PM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't have that later debug output at all. Presumably some config difference. > > > > > > CONFIG_X86_PTDUMP_CORE iirc. > > > > No, I have that. I suspect CONFIG_EFI_PGT_DUMP instead. > > > > Anyway, as it stands now, I think the CONFIG_DEBUG_WX option should > > not default to 'y' unless it is made more useful if it actually > > triggers. Ingo? > > Yeah, agreed absolutely. > > So this is a bit sad because RWX pages are a real problem in practice, especially > since the EFI addresses are well predictable, but generating a warning without > being able to fix it quickly is counterproductive as well, as it only annoys > people and makes them turn off the option. (Which we could do as well to begin > with, without the annoyance factor...) > > So the plan would be: > > 1) Make it default-n. > > 2) We should try to further improve the messages to make it easier to determine > what's wrong. We _do_ try to output symbolic information in the warning, to > make it easier to find buggy mappings, but these are not standard kernel > mappings. So I think we need an e820 mappings based semi-symbolic printout of > bad addresses - maybe even correlate it with the MMIO resource tree. > > 3) We should fix the EFI permission problem without relying on the firmware: it > appears we could just mark everything R-X optimistically, and if a write fault > happens (it's pretty rare in fact, only triggers when we write to an EFI > variable and so), we can mark the faulting page RW- on the fly, because it > appears that writable EFI sections, while not enumerated very well in 'old' > firmware, are still supposed to be page granular. (Even 'new' firmware I > wouldn't automatically trust to get the enumeration right...) > > If that 'supposed to be' turns out to be 'not true' (not unheard of in > firmware land), then plan B would be to mark pages that generate write faults > RWX as well, to not break functionality. (This 'mark it RWX' is not something > that exploits would have easy access to, and we could also generate a warning > [after the EFI call has finished] if it ever triggers.) > > Admittedly this approach might not be without its own complications, but it > looks reasonably simple (I don't think we need per EFI call page tables, > etc.), and does not assume much about the firmware being able to enumerate its > permissions properly. Were we to merge EFI support today I'd have insisted on > trying such an approach from day 1 on. > > Thanks, > > Ingo