From: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
To: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
Cc: Andrea Parri <parri.andrea@gmail.com>,
Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>,
peterz@infradead.org, boqun.feng@gmail.com, npiggin@gmail.com,
dhowells@redhat.com, Jade Alglave <j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk>,
Luc Maranget <luc.maranget@inria.fr>,
Kernel development list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Linux-kernel examples for LKMM recipes
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 13:28:05 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171018202805.GP3521@linux.vnet.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1710181040230.1528-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org>
On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 10:43:42AM -0400, Alan Stern wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2017, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
>
> > > > > > b. Compilers are permitted to use the "as-if" rule.
> > > > > > That is, a compiler can emit whatever code it likes,
> > > > > > as long as the results appear just as if the compiler
> > > > > > had followed all the relevant rules. To see this,
> > > > > > compiler with a high level of optimization and run
> > > > > > the debugger on the resulting binary.
> > > > >
> > > > > You might omit the last sentence. Furthermore, if the accesses don't
> > > > > use READ_ONCE/WRITE_ONCE then the code might not get the same result as
> > > > > if it had executed in order (even for a single variable!), and if you
> > > > > do use READ_ONCE/WRITE_ONCE then the compiler can't emit whatever code
> > > > > it likes.
> > > >
> > > > Ah, I omitted an important qualifier:
> > > >
> > > > b. Compilers are permitted to use the "as-if" rule. That is,
> > > > a compiler can emit whatever code it likes, as long as
> > > > the results of a single-threaded execution appear just
> > > > as if the compiler had followed all the relevant rules.
> > > > To see this, compile with a high level of optimization
> > > > and run the debugger on the resulting binary.
> > >
> > > That's okay for the single-CPU case. I don't think it covers the
> > > multiple-CPU single-variable case correctly, though. If you don't use
> > > READ_ONCE or WRITE_ONCE, isn't the compiler allowed to tear the loads
> > > and stores? And won't that potentially cause the end result to be
> > > different from what you would get if the code had appeared to execute
> > > in order?
> >
> > Ah, good point, I need yet another qualifier. How about the following?
> >
> > b. Compilers are permitted to use the "as-if" rule. That is,
> > a compiler can emit whatever code it likes for normal
> > accesses, as long as the results of a single-threaded
> > execution appear just as if the compiler had followed
> > all the relevant rules. To see this, compile with a
> > high level of optimization and run the debugger on the
> > resulting binary.
> >
> > I added "for normal accesses", which excludes READ_ONCE(), WRITE_ONCE(),
> > and atomics. This, in conjunction with the previously added
> > "single-threaded execution" means that yes, the compiler is permitted
> > to tear normal loads and stores. The reason is that a single-threaded
> > run could not tell the difference. Interrupt handlers or multiple
> > threads are required to detect load/store tearing.
> >
> > So, what am I still missing? ;-)
>
> Well, you could explicitly mention that in the multi-thread case, this
> means all accesses to the shared variable had better use READ_ONCE() or
> WRITE_ONCE().
Like this?
Thanx, Paul
------------------------------------------------------------------------
d. If there are multiple CPUs, accesses to shared variables
should use READ_ONCE() and WRITE_ONCE() or stronger
to prevent load/store tearing, load/store fusing, and
invented loads and stores. There are exceptions to
this rule, for example:
i. When there is no possibility of a given
shared variable being updated, for example,
while holding the update-side lock, reads
from that variable need not use READ_ONCE().
ii. When there is no possibility of a given shared
variable being either read or updated, for
example, when running during early boot, reads
from that variable need not use READ_ONCE() and
writes to that variable need not use WRITE_ONCE().
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-10-18 20:28 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 19+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-10-11 22:32 Linux-kernel examples for LKMM recipes Paul E. McKenney
2017-10-12 1:23 ` Boqun Feng
2017-10-12 11:27 ` Will Deacon
2017-10-17 20:37 ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-10-17 20:56 ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-10-12 13:27 ` Andrea Parri
2017-10-17 20:18 ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-10-13 19:44 ` Alan Stern
2017-10-13 20:00 ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-10-13 20:09 ` Alan Stern
2017-10-17 18:56 ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-10-17 19:38 ` Alan Stern
2017-10-17 20:33 ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-10-17 21:03 ` Alan Stern
2017-10-17 21:55 ` Paul E. McKenney
2017-10-18 14:43 ` Alan Stern
2017-10-18 20:28 ` Paul E. McKenney [this message]
2017-10-18 21:18 ` Alan Stern
2017-10-18 22:57 ` Paul E. McKenney
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=20171018202805.GP3521@linux.vnet.ibm.com \
--to=paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com \
--cc=boqun.feng@gmail.com \
--cc=dhowells@redhat.com \
--cc=j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=luc.maranget@inria.fr \
--cc=npiggin@gmail.com \
--cc=parri.andrea@gmail.com \
--cc=peterz@infradead.org \
--cc=stern@rowland.harvard.edu \
--cc=will.deacon@arm.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox