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From: Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>
To: "Woodhouse, David" <dwmw@amazon.co.uk>
Cc: "pavel@ucw.cz" <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	"pbonzini@redhat.com" <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	"andrew.cooper3@citrix.com" <andrew.cooper3@citrix.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com" <tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com>,
	"torvalds@linux-foundation.org" <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	"tglx@linutronix.de" <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	"andi@firstfloor.org" <andi@firstfloor.org>,
	"gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk" <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	"dave.hansen@intel.com" <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	"gregkh@linux-foundation.org" <gregkh@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: Avoid speculative indirect calls in kernel
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 17:52:38 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180104165238.GF13348@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1515079777.12987.149.camel@amazon.co.uk>

On Thu, Jan 04, 2018 at 03:29:37PM +0000, Woodhouse, David wrote:
> On Thu, 2018-01-04 at 14:51 +0000, Andrew Cooper wrote:
> > 
> > > * never turn off indirect branch prediction, but use a branch prediction
> > > barrier on every mode switch (needed for current AMD microcode)
> > 
> > Where have you got this idea from?  Using IBPB on every mode switch
> > would be an insane overhead to take, and isn't necessary.
> 
> AMD *only* has IBPB and not IBRS, but IIRC you don't need to do it on

AMD 0x10 0x12 0x16 basically have IBRS and no IBPB, those works
perfectly fine in ibrs 2 ibpb 1 mode, variant#2 fixed and zero
overhead.

> every context switch into the kernel; only when switching between
> VMs/processes?

Some AMD only has IBPB and no IBRS, then IBPB has to be called in
every enter kernel or vmexit to give the same security as ibrs 1 ibpb
1 (modulo SMT/HT but that's not the spectre PoC and you can rule that
out mathematically also by simply using cpu pinning as you already do
or disabling SMT if you care that much). Note ibrs 1 ibpb 1 also won't
cover HT effects of guest/user mode vs guest/user mode so cpu pinning
may be advisable anyway in your case (even with ibrs 1 ibpb 1 no
difference).

Of course everything can be trivially opted out at runtime and all
measurable performance restored, but by default it boots in the most
secure config available and it will make spectre variant#2 attack
impossible with only ibpb available.

> I need to pull in the AMD lfence alternative for retpoline, giving us a
> 3-way choice of the existing retpoline thunk, "lfence; jmp *%\reg", and
> a bare "jmp *%\reg".
> 
> Then the IBRS bits can be added on top.

"AMD lfence and reptoline" in the same sentence sounds like somebody
else also cares about spectre variant#2 on AMD. "Reptoline" only ever
makes sense in spectre variant#2 context so either ibrs 0 ibpb 2 mode
makes some sense too, or special lfence repotline for AMD should not
be worth mentioning in the first place.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-01-04 16:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 107+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-01-03 23:09 Avoid speculative indirect calls in kernel Andi Kleen
2018-01-03 23:09 ` [PATCH 01/11] x86/retpoline: Define retpoline indirect thunk and macros Andi Kleen
2018-01-03 23:09 ` [PATCH 02/11] x86/retpoline/crypto: Convert crypto assembler indirect jumps Andi Kleen
2018-01-03 23:09 ` [PATCH 03/11] x86/retpoline/entry: Convert entry " Andi Kleen
2018-01-03 23:09 ` [PATCH 04/11] x86/retpoline/ftrace: Convert ftrace " Andi Kleen
2018-01-03 23:09 ` [PATCH 05/11] x86/retpoline/hyperv: Convert " Andi Kleen
2018-01-03 23:09 ` [PATCH 06/11] x86/retpoline/crypto: Convert xen " Andi Kleen
2018-01-03 23:09 ` [PATCH 07/11] x86/retpoline/checksum32: Convert " Andi Kleen
2018-01-03 23:09 ` [PATCH 08/11] x86/retpoline/irq32: " Andi Kleen
2018-01-03 23:09 ` [PATCH 09/11] x86/retpoline: Finally enable retpoline for C code Andi Kleen
2018-01-04  8:28   ` Greg KH
2018-01-04  8:30     ` Dave Hansen
2018-01-03 23:09 ` [PATCH 10/11] retpoline/taint: Taint kernel for missing retpoline in compiler Andi Kleen
2018-01-04  0:29   ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-04  0:35     ` Randy Dunlap
2018-01-03 23:09 ` [PATCH 11/11] retpoline/objtool: Disable some objtool warnings Andi Kleen
2018-01-03 23:51 ` Avoid speculative indirect calls in kernel Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04  0:00   ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04  0:09   ` Andi Kleen
2018-01-04  0:12     ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-04  0:15       ` Andi Kleen
2018-01-04  0:19         ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-05  2:01           ` james harvey
2018-01-05 10:40             ` Woodhouse, David
2018-01-05 12:29               ` james harvey
2018-01-05 12:06             ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04  0:29         ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04  0:31           ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-04  0:38             ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04  0:40             ` Andi Kleen
2018-01-04  8:15               ` Woodhouse, David
2018-01-04 15:53                 ` Andi Kleen
2018-01-04 15:55                   ` Woodhouse, David
2018-01-04  0:20       ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04  0:26         ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-04  0:18     ` David Lang
2018-01-04  1:00   ` Paul Turner
2018-01-04  1:41   ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-01-04  1:59     ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04  2:11       ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-01-04  8:20         ` Woodhouse, David
2018-01-04 11:42           ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 11:47             ` Woodhouse, David
2018-01-04 14:20               ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-01-04 14:51                 ` Andrew Cooper
2018-01-04 15:29                   ` Woodhouse, David
2018-01-04 15:32                     ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-01-04 15:37                       ` Andrew Cooper
2018-01-04 16:15                     ` David Woodhouse
2018-01-04 20:00                       ` Tom Lendacky
2018-01-04 20:05                         ` David Woodhouse
2018-01-04 23:47                           ` Tom Lendacky
2018-01-05  0:06                             ` Andrew Cooper
2018-01-05  0:26                             ` Tom Lendacky
2018-01-04 16:52                     ` Andrea Arcangeli [this message]
2018-01-04 15:32                   ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-01-04 16:25                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2018-01-04 17:04                       ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 17:40                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2018-01-04 17:13                       ` Dave Hansen
2018-01-04 17:15                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-01-04 18:05                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2018-01-04 14:55                 ` Woodhouse, David
2018-01-04 18:24                 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 19:57           ` Jon Masters
2018-01-05  0:41             ` Jon Masters
2018-01-05  0:54               ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-05  4:11                 ` Jon Masters
2018-01-05  9:59                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-08 10:28                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2018-01-08 20:42                       ` [tip:x86/pti] x86/tboot: Unbreak tboot with PTI enabled tip-bot for Dave Hansen
2018-01-08 20:53                       ` Avoid speculative indirect calls in kernel Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-08 21:32                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2018-01-10  0:45                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-10  1:11                             ` Dave Hansen
2018-01-10 16:02                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-05  6:49                 ` Willy Tarreau
2018-01-05  6:57                   ` Dave Hansen
2018-01-05  7:13                     ` Willy Tarreau
2018-01-07 14:14                       ` Borislav Petkov
2018-01-07 17:21                         ` David Lang
2018-01-07 18:49                           ` Borislav Petkov
2018-01-07 17:44                         ` Willy Tarreau
2018-01-07 18:55                           ` Borislav Petkov
2018-01-07 22:10                             ` Willy Tarreau
2018-01-08  9:18                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-08  9:29                                 ` Willy Tarreau
2018-01-08 16:22                               ` Borislav Petkov
2018-01-08 16:53                                 ` Willy Tarreau
2018-01-05 12:12                 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-09  1:44                   ` Samir Bellabes
     [not found]                 ` <CAL9bgJ8XNJgCtxR6+M+Vm9eDBVZ4Dyi_-Lt-Q1ei9N=TE2c6cg@mail.gmail.com>
2018-01-07  5:04                   ` Fwd: " Kiernan Hager
2018-01-07  6:39                     ` Willy Tarreau
2018-01-07 14:01                     ` Alan Cox
2018-01-07 17:47                       ` Willy Tarreau
2018-01-07 18:01                         ` Ivan Ivanov
2018-01-07 18:16                           ` Woodhouse, David
2018-01-04 11:26   ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 11:54     ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 18:33     ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04 20:08       ` Jon Masters
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-01-04  2:00 Andi Kleen
2018-01-04 11:49 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 12:09   ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 13:32     ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-12  8:20 Dr. Greg Wettstein
2018-02-23 21:10 Ywe Cærlyn

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