[PATCH 0/3] dc395x stale reference cleanup

[PATCH 0/3] dc395x stale reference cleanup

[Bagas Sanjaya]

A small stale reference cleanup series for DC395x driver. The shortlog
below should be self-explanatory.

This series is based on for-next branch of scsi tree, but can be applied
to fixes if needed.

Bagas Sanjaya (3):
  MAINTAINERS: Drop DC395x list and site
  Documentation: scsi: dc395x: Replace non-functional twibble.org list
  Documentation: scsi: dc395x: Remove reference to 2.4 driver

 Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst | 9 ++-------
 MAINTAINERS                   | 4 +---
 2 files changed, 3 insertions(+), 10 deletions(-)


base-commit: d1316c7b9ec3683c4ca531234998c0e5b9e9447c
-- 
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

[PATCH 1/3] MAINTAINERS: Drop DC395x list and site

[Bagas Sanjaya]

Emails to DC395x list bounce (550 error) and visiting the site returns
404 page.

Drop both twibble.org links, replacing the list with linux-scsi list.

Signed-off-by: Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
---
 MAINTAINERS | 4 +---
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/MAINTAINERS b/MAINTAINERS
index 8d5bc223f3053b..35de3289a8af04 100644
--- a/MAINTAINERS
+++ b/MAINTAINERS
@@ -5692,10 +5692,8 @@ DC395x SCSI driver
 M:	Oliver Neukum <oliver@neukum.org>
 M:	Ali Akcaagac <aliakc@web.de>
 M:	Jamie Lenehan <lenehan@twibble.org>
-L:	dc395x@twibble.org
+L:	linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org
 S:	Maintained
-W:	http://twibble.org/dist/dc395x/
-W:	http://lists.twibble.org/mailman/listinfo/dc395x/
 F:	Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst
 F:	drivers/scsi/dc395x.*
 
-- 
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

Re: [PATCH 1/3] MAINTAINERS: Drop DC395x list and site

[Dan Carpenter]

On Fri, May 05, 2023 at 03:27:02PM +0700, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> diff --git a/MAINTAINERS b/MAINTAINERS
> index 8d5bc223f3053b..35de3289a8af04 100644
> --- a/MAINTAINERS
> +++ b/MAINTAINERS
> @@ -5692,10 +5692,8 @@ DC395x SCSI driver
>  M:	Oliver Neukum <oliver@neukum.org>
>  M:	Ali Akcaagac <aliakc@web.de>
>  M:	Jamie Lenehan <lenehan@twibble.org>
> -L:	dc395x@twibble.org
> +L:	linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org

Other people do this too, but is there really any reason to include
the linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org list?  drivers/scsi/ will already
include it.

regards,
dan carpenter

Re: [PATCH 1/3] MAINTAINERS: Drop DC395x list and site

[Bagas Sanjaya]

On 5/5/23 16:16, Dan Carpenter wrote:
> Other people do this too, but is there really any reason to include
> the linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org list?  drivers/scsi/ will already
> include it.
> 

I prefer to be explicit in this case.

-- 
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

Re: [PATCH 1/3] MAINTAINERS: Drop DC395x list and site

[Ali Akcaagac]

Hi,

the dc395x list has gone long long looooong ago from what I recall. It
was set up during the transition phase from the 2.4.x Kernel to 2.5.x
-> 2.6.x where a few people wanted to communicate the changes necessary
to get that driver ported. I remember that it was around 2003 (more or
less) and I sometimes still wonder whether the hardware still exists,
still works or someone still uses it. It's funny to see that this kind
of topic is cooking up 20 years later :)

Regards

Ali

On Fri,  5 May 2023 15:27:02 +0700
Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> wrote:

> Emails to DC395x list bounce (550 error) and visiting the site returns
> 404 page.
>
> Drop both twibble.org links, replacing the list with linux-scsi list.
>
> Signed-off-by: Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
> ---
>  MAINTAINERS | 4 +---
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 3 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/MAINTAINERS b/MAINTAINERS
> index 8d5bc223f3053b..35de3289a8af04 100644
> --- a/MAINTAINERS
> +++ b/MAINTAINERS
> @@ -5692,10 +5692,8 @@ DC395x SCSI driver
>  M:	Oliver Neukum <oliver@neukum.org>
>  M:	Ali Akcaagac <aliakc@web.de>
>  M:	Jamie Lenehan <lenehan@twibble.org>
> -L:	dc395x@twibble.org
> +L:	linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org
>  S:	Maintained
> -W:	http://twibble.org/dist/dc395x/
> -W:	http://lists.twibble.org/mailman/listinfo/dc395x/
>  F:	Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst
>  F:	drivers/scsi/dc395x.*
>

[PATCH 2/3] Documentation: scsi: dc395x: Replace non-functional twibble.org list

[Bagas Sanjaya]

Now that the mailing list has been replaced in MAINTAINERS with
linux-scsi list, do the same in the documentation.

Signed-off-by: Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
---
 Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst | 5 ++---
 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst b/Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst
index d779e782b1cbe1..c413b629809bcd 100644
--- a/Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst
+++ b/Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst
@@ -15,9 +15,8 @@ This is a 2.5 only driver. For a 2.4 driver please see the original
 driver (which this driver started from) at
 http://www.garloff.de/kurt/linux/dc395/
 
-Problems, questions and patches should be submitted to the mailing
-list. Details on the list, including archives, are available at
-http://lists.twibble.org/mailman/listinfo/dc395x/
+Problems, questions and patches should be submitted to the `Linux SCSI
+mailing list <linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org>`_.
 
 Parameters
 ----------
-- 
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

[PATCH 3/3] Documentation: scsi: dc395x: Remove reference to 2.4 driver

[Bagas Sanjaya]

The 2.4 driver link returns 404. As no one runs 2.4 kernel anymore,
remove the stale reference.

Signed-off-by: Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
---
 Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst | 4 ----
 1 file changed, 4 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst b/Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst
index c413b629809bcd..a6320561543650 100644
--- a/Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst
+++ b/Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst
@@ -11,10 +11,6 @@ be safe to use. Testing with hard disks has not been done to any
 great degree and caution should be exercised if you want to attempt
 to use this driver with hard disks.
 
-This is a 2.5 only driver. For a 2.4 driver please see the original
-driver (which this driver started from) at
-http://www.garloff.de/kurt/linux/dc395/
-
 Problems, questions and patches should be submitted to the `Linux SCSI
 mailing list <linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org>`_.
 
-- 
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

Re: [PATCH 3/3] Documentation: scsi: dc395x: Remove reference to 2.4 driver

[Finn Thain]

On Fri, 5 May 2023, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:

> The 2.4 driver link returns 404. 

It's still potentially useful:
https://web.archive.org/web/20140129181343/http://www.garloff.de/kurt/linux/dc395/

> As no one runs 2.4 kernel anymore,

Would it make a difference if someone does run that? Were you planning to 
delete the source code for the 2.4 kernel too?

> remove the stale reference.
> 

It was always stale inasmuch as it is apparently there to give credit for 
prior contributions, plus a changelog (see archive.org).

Any published link should probably be accompanied by a "retrieved on 
yyyy-mm-dd" qualification. But no qualification is better than no link at 
all, IMO.

Of course, there is a reason for an edit here. Yet it's not the one you 
gave. "This is a 2.5 only driver" is simply incorrect. (If it was correct 
you'd get to delete the whole thing.)

This is not a nak as I'm not the maintainer. But this patch just looks 
like churn with no justification. Perhaps I'm not the only one who can't 
see it.

> Signed-off-by: Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
> ---
>  Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst | 4 ----
>  1 file changed, 4 deletions(-)
> 
> diff --git a/Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst b/Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst
> index c413b629809bcd..a6320561543650 100644
> --- a/Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst
> +++ b/Documentation/scsi/dc395x.rst
> @@ -11,10 +11,6 @@ be safe to use. Testing with hard disks has not been done to any
>  great degree and caution should be exercised if you want to attempt
>  to use this driver with hard disks.
>  
> -This is a 2.5 only driver. For a 2.4 driver please see the original
> -driver (which this driver started from) at
> -http://www.garloff.de/kurt/linux/dc395/
> -
>  Problems, questions and patches should be submitted to the `Linux SCSI
>  mailing list <linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org>`_.
>  
> 

Re: [PATCH 3/3] Documentation: scsi: dc395x: Remove reference to 2.4 driver

[Jonathan Corbet]

Finn Thain <fthain@linux-m68k.org> writes:

> On Fri, 5 May 2023, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
>
>> The 2.4 driver link returns 404. 
>
> It's still potentially useful:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20140129181343/http://www.garloff.de/kurt/linux/dc395/
>
>> As no one runs 2.4 kernel anymore,
>
> Would it make a difference if someone does run that? Were you planning to 
> delete the source code for the 2.4 kernel too?

Most of the 2.4 code has indeed been deleted *from current kernels*.
It's not clear to me why 2.4 documentation should be immune to that same
process.  If we keep every 20-year-old reference, our docs will be even
cruftier and less useful than they are now.

Thanks,

jon

Re: [PATCH 3/3] Documentation: scsi: dc395x: Remove reference to 2.4 driver

[Finn Thain]

On Fri, 5 May 2023, Jonathan Corbet wrote:

> 
> Most of the 2.4 code has indeed been deleted *from current kernels*. 

Is it okay to delete old code from -stable kernels?

> It's not clear to me why 2.4 documentation should be immune to that same 
> process.

My message argued for removing 2.5 documentation and retaining the link 
that gives credit to prior contributions.

> If we keep every 20-year-old reference, our docs will be even cruftier 
> and less useful than they are now.
> 

Since you're obviously being facetious, it's tempting to respond that 
"churn is good because it reduces the average age of the code". But that 
kind of exchange gets us nowhere.

I'd be curious to see an age histogram of the commentary in the source 
code in the mainline kernel repository (or any other long-lived project). 
I wonder if that has ever been measured.

Re: [PATCH 3/3] Documentation: scsi: dc395x: Remove reference to 2.4 driver

[Oliver Neukum]

On 05.05.23 15:34, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
> Finn Thain <fthain@linux-m68k.org> writes:
> 
>> On Fri, 5 May 2023, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:

>> Would it make a difference if someone does run that? Were you planning to
>> delete the source code for the 2.4 kernel too?
> 
> Most of the 2.4 code has indeed been deleted *from current kernels*.
> It's not clear to me why 2.4 documentation should be immune to that same
> process.  If we keep every 20-year-old reference, our docs will be even
> cruftier and less useful than they are now.

Hi,

the documentation of a kernel should document that kernel.

Now, we have a perfectly fine tool named "git" which allows
for metadocumentation. May I suggest that you respin the patch
and include a link to the old stuff, which somebody has been
nice enough to find, in the change log?

	Regards
		Oliver

Re: [PATCH 3/3] Documentation: scsi: dc395x: Remove reference to 2.4 driver

[Bagas Sanjaya]

On 5/9/23 15:55, Oliver Neukum wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> the documentation of a kernel should document that kernel.
> 
> Now, we have a perfectly fine tool named "git" which allows
> for metadocumentation. May I suggest that you respin the patch
> and include a link to the old stuff, which somebody has been
> nice enough to find, in the change log?
> 

OK, thanks!

-- 
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara