From: Phil Auld <pauld@redhat.com>
To: Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
mingo@redhat.com, juri.lelli@redhat.com,
vincent.guittot@linaro.org, dietmar.eggemann@arm.com,
rostedt@goodmis.org, bsegall@google.com, mgorman@suse.de,
vschneid@redhat.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
kprateek.nayak@amd.com, wuyun.abel@bytedance.com,
youssefesmat@chromium.org, tglx@linutronix.de
Subject: Re: [PATCH] sched/fair: Dequeue sched_delayed tasks when waking to a busy CPU
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2024 07:41:17 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20241112124117.GA336451@pauld.westford.csb> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5a4cb3e4ab698fe2d8419e28d61e292dcd0c8fad.camel@gmx.de>
On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 08:05:04AM +0100 Mike Galbraith wrote:
> On Fri, 2024-11-08 at 01:24 +0100, Mike Galbraith wrote:
> > On Thu, 2024-11-07 at 15:09 +0100, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > > On Thu, Nov 07, 2024 at 03:02:36PM +0100, Mike Galbraith wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 2024-11-07 at 10:46 +0100, Mike Galbraith wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, 2024-11-07 at 05:03 +0100, Mike Galbraith wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I built that patch out of curiosity, and yeah, set_next_task_fair()
> > > > > > finding a cfs_rq->curr ends play time pretty quickly.
> > > > >
> > > > > The below improved uptime, and trace_printk() says it's doing the
> > > > > intended, so I suppose I'll add a feature and see what falls out.
> > > >
> > > > From netperf, I got.. number tabulation practice. Three runs of each
> > > > test with and without produced nothing but variance/noise.
> > >
> > > Make it go away then.
> > >
> > > If you could write a Changelog for you inspired bit and stick my cleaned
> > > up version under it, I'd be much obliged.
> >
> > Salut, much obliged for eyeball relief.
>
> Unfortunate change log place holder below aside, I think this patch may
> need to be yanked as trading one not readily repeatable regression for
> at least one that definitely is, and likely multiple others.
>
> (adds knob)
>
Yes, I ws just coming here to reply. I have the results from the first
version of the patch (I don't think the later one fundemtally changed
enough that it will matter but those results are still pending).
Not entirely surprisingly we've traded a ~10% rand write regression for
5-10% rand read regression. This makes sense to me since the reads are
more likely to be synchronous and thus be more buddy-like and benefit
from flipping back and forth on the same cpu.
I'd probably have to take the reads over the writes in such a trade off :)
> tbench 8
>
> NO_MIGRATE_DELAYED 3613.49 MB/sec
> MIGRATE_DELAYED 3145.59 MB/sec
> NO_DELAY_DEQUEUE 3355.42 MB/sec
>
> First line is DELAY_DEQUEUE restoring pre-EEVDF tbench throughput as
> I've mentioned it doing, but $subject promptly did away with that and
> then some.
>
Yep, that's not pretty.
> I thought I might be able to do away with the reservation like side
> effect of DELAY_DEQUEUE by borrowing h_nr_delayed from...
>
> sched/eevdf: More PELT vs DELAYED_DEQUEUE
>
> ...for cgroups free test config, but Q/D poke at idle_cpu() helped not
> at all.
>
I wonder if the last_wakee stuff could be leveraged here (an idle thought,
so to speak). Haven't looked closely enough.
Cheers,
Phil
> > ---snip---
> >
> > Phil Auld (Redhat) reported an fio benchmark regression having been found
> > to have been caused by addition of the DELAY_DEQUEUE feature, suggested it
> > may be related to wakees losing the ability to migrate, and confirmed that
> > restoration of same indeed did restore previous performance.
> >
> > (de-uglified-a-lot-by)
> >
> > Reported-by: Phil Auld <pauld@redhat.com>
> > Fixes: 152e11f6df29 ("sched/fair: Implement delayed dequeue")
> > Link: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20241101124715.GA689589@pauld.westford.csb/
> > Signed-off-by: Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de>
> > ---
> > kernel/sched/core.c | 48 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-------------------
> > kernel/sched/sched.h | 5 +++++
> > 2 files changed, 34 insertions(+), 19 deletions(-)
> >
> > --- a/kernel/sched/core.c
> > +++ b/kernel/sched/core.c
> > @@ -3783,28 +3783,38 @@ ttwu_do_activate(struct rq *rq, struct t
> > */
> > static int ttwu_runnable(struct task_struct *p, int wake_flags)
> > {
> > - struct rq_flags rf;
> > - struct rq *rq;
> > - int ret = 0;
> > -
> > - rq = __task_rq_lock(p, &rf);
> > - if (task_on_rq_queued(p)) {
> > - update_rq_clock(rq);
> > - if (p->se.sched_delayed)
> > - enqueue_task(rq, p, ENQUEUE_NOCLOCK | ENQUEUE_DELAYED);
> > - if (!task_on_cpu(rq, p)) {
> > - /*
> > - * When on_rq && !on_cpu the task is preempted, see if
> > - * it should preempt the task that is current now.
> > - */
> > - wakeup_preempt(rq, p, wake_flags);
> > + CLASS(__task_rq_lock, rq_guard)(p);
> > + struct rq *rq = rq_guard.rq;
> > +
> > + if (!task_on_rq_queued(p))
> > + return 0;
> > +
> > + update_rq_clock(rq);
> > + if (p->se.sched_delayed) {
> > + int queue_flags = ENQUEUE_DELAYED | ENQUEUE_NOCLOCK;
> > +
> > + /*
> > + * Since sched_delayed means we cannot be current anywhere,
> > + * dequeue it here and have it fall through to the
> > + * select_task_rq() case further along the ttwu() path.
> > + */
> > + if (rq->nr_running > 1 && p->nr_cpus_allowed > 1) {
> > + dequeue_task(rq, p, DEQUEUE_SLEEP | queue_flags);
> > + return 0;
> > }
> > - ttwu_do_wakeup(p);
> > - ret = 1;
> > +
> > + enqueue_task(rq, p, queue_flags);
> > + }
> > + if (!task_on_cpu(rq, p)) {
> > + /*
> > + * When on_rq && !on_cpu the task is preempted, see if
> > + * it should preempt the task that is current now.
> > + */
> > + wakeup_preempt(rq, p, wake_flags);
> > }
> > - __task_rq_unlock(rq, &rf);
> > + ttwu_do_wakeup(p);
> >
> > - return ret;
> > + return 1;
> > }
> >
> > #ifdef CONFIG_SMP
> > --- a/kernel/sched/sched.h
> > +++ b/kernel/sched/sched.h
> > @@ -1779,6 +1779,11 @@ task_rq_unlock(struct rq *rq, struct tas
> > raw_spin_unlock_irqrestore(&p->pi_lock, rf->flags);
> > }
> >
> > +DEFINE_LOCK_GUARD_1(__task_rq_lock, struct task_struct,
> > + _T->rq = __task_rq_lock(_T->lock, &_T->rf),
> > + __task_rq_unlock(_T->rq, &_T->rf),
> > + struct rq *rq; struct rq_flags rf)
> > +
> > DEFINE_LOCK_GUARD_1(task_rq_lock, struct task_struct,
> > _T->rq = task_rq_lock(_T->lock, &_T->rf),
> > task_rq_unlock(_T->rq, _T->lock, &_T->rf),
> >
> >
>
--
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-11-12 12:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 241+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-07-27 10:27 [PATCH 00/24] Complete EEVDF Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 01/24] sched/eevdf: Add feature comments Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 02/24] sched/eevdf: Remove min_vruntime_copy Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 03/24] sched/fair: Cleanup pick_task_fair() vs throttle Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 04/24] sched/fair: Cleanup pick_task_fair()s curr Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] sched/fair: Cleanup pick_task_fair()'s curr tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 05/24] sched/fair: Unify pick_{,next_}_task_fair() Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 06/24] sched: Allow sched_class::dequeue_task() to fail Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 07/24] sched/fair: Re-organize dequeue_task_fair() Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-09 16:53 ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-10 22:17 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-12 10:02 ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 08/24] sched: Split DEQUEUE_SLEEP from deactivate_task() Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 09/24] sched: Prepare generic code for delayed dequeue Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 10/24] sched/uclamg: Handle " Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-19 9:14 ` Christian Loehle
2024-08-20 16:23 ` [PATCH 10/24] " Hongyan Xia
2024-08-21 13:34 ` Hongyan Xia
2024-08-22 8:19 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-22 8:21 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-22 9:21 ` Luis Machado
2024-08-22 9:53 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-22 10:20 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-22 10:28 ` Luis Machado
2024-08-22 12:07 ` Luis Machado
2024-08-22 12:10 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-22 14:58 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-29 15:42 ` Hongyan Xia
2024-09-05 13:02 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-09-05 13:33 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-09-05 14:07 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-09-05 14:29 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-09-05 14:50 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-09-05 14:53 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-06 6:14 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-09-06 10:45 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-08 7:43 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-10 8:09 ` [tip: sched/core] sched/eevdf: More PELT vs DELAYED_DEQUEUE tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-27 4:17 ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-11-27 9:34 ` Luis Machado
2024-11-28 6:35 ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-09-10 11:04 ` [PATCH 10/24] sched/uclamg: Handle delayed dequeue Luis Machado
2024-09-10 14:05 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-11 8:35 ` Luis Machado
2024-09-11 8:45 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-11 8:55 ` Luis Machado
2024-09-11 9:10 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-11 9:13 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-11 9:27 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-12 14:00 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-13 16:39 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-14 3:40 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-24 15:16 ` Luis Machado
2024-09-24 17:35 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-25 5:14 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-09-11 11:49 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-09-11 9:38 ` Luis Machado
2024-09-12 12:58 ` Luis Machado
2024-09-12 20:44 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-09-11 10:46 ` Luis Machado
2024-09-06 9:55 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-09-05 14:18 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-10 8:09 ` [tip: sched/core] kernel/sched: Fix util_est accounting for DELAY_DEQUEUE tip-bot2 for Dietmar Eggemann
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 11/24] sched/fair: Assert {set_next,put_prev}_entity() are properly balanced Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 12/24] sched/fair: Prepare exit/cleanup paths for delayed_dequeue Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-13 12:43 ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-13 21:54 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-13 22:07 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-14 5:53 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-27 9:35 ` Chen Yu
2024-08-27 20:29 ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-28 2:55 ` Chen Yu
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-27 9:17 ` [PATCH 12/24] " Chen Yu
2024-08-28 3:06 ` Chen Yu
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 13/24] sched/fair: Prepare pick_next_task() for delayed dequeue Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-10 9:16 ` [PATCH 13/24] " Luis Machado
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 14/24] sched/fair: Implement ENQUEUE_DELAYED Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 15/24] sched,freezer: Mark TASK_FROZEN special Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 16/24] sched: Teach dequeue_task() about special task states Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 17/24] sched/fair: Implement delayed dequeue Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-02 14:39 ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-02 14:59 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-02 16:32 ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-19 10:01 ` [PATCH 17/24] " Luis Machado
[not found] ` <CGME20240828223802eucas1p16755f4531ed0611dc4871649746ea774@eucas1p1.samsung.com>
2024-08-28 22:38 ` Marek Szyprowski
2024-10-10 2:49 ` Sean Christopherson
2024-10-10 7:57 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-10-10 16:18 ` Sean Christopherson
2024-10-10 17:12 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-10-10 8:19 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-10-10 9:18 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-10-10 18:23 ` Sean Christopherson
2024-10-12 14:15 ` [tip: sched/urgent] sched: Fix external p->on_rq users tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-10-14 7:28 ` [tip: sched/urgent] sched/fair: " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-01 12:47 ` [PATCH 17/24] sched/fair: Implement delayed dequeue Phil Auld
2024-11-01 12:56 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-01 13:38 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-01 14:26 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-01 14:42 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-01 18:08 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-01 20:07 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-02 4:32 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-04 13:05 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-05 4:05 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-05 4:22 ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-11-05 6:46 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-06 3:02 ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-11-05 15:20 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-05 19:05 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-06 2:45 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-06 13:53 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-06 14:14 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-06 14:38 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-06 15:22 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-07 4:03 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-07 9:46 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-07 14:02 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-07 14:09 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-08 0:24 ` [PATCH] sched/fair: Dequeue sched_delayed tasks when waking to a busy CPU Mike Galbraith
2024-11-08 13:34 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-11 2:46 ` Xuewen Yan
2024-11-11 3:53 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-12 7:05 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-12 12:41 ` Phil Auld [this message]
2024-11-12 14:23 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-12 14:23 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-12 15:41 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-12 16:15 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-14 11:07 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-14 11:28 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-19 11:30 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-19 11:51 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-20 18:37 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-21 11:56 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-21 12:07 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-21 21:21 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-23 8:44 ` [PATCH V2] " Mike Galbraith
2024-11-26 5:32 ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-11-26 6:30 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-26 9:42 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-12-02 19:15 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-27 14:13 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-12-02 16:24 ` Phil Auld
2024-12-02 16:55 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-12-02 19:12 ` Phil Auld
2024-12-09 13:11 ` Phil Auld
2024-12-09 15:06 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-11-06 14:14 ` [PATCH 17/24] sched/fair: Implement delayed dequeue Mike Galbraith
2024-11-06 14:33 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-04 9:28 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-11-04 11:55 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-11-04 12:50 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-05 9:53 ` Christian Loehle
2024-11-05 15:55 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-08 14:53 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-11-08 18:16 ` Phil Auld
2024-11-11 11:29 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 18/24] sched/fair: Implement DELAY_ZERO Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 19/24] sched/eevdf: Fixup PELT vs DELAYED_DEQUEUE Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-13 12:43 ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-13 22:18 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-14 7:25 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-14 7:28 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-14 10:23 ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-14 12:59 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-17 23:06 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-19 12:50 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 20/24] sched/fair: Avoid re-setting virtual deadline on migrations Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] sched/fair: Avoid re-setting virtual deadline on 'migrations' tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 21/24] sched/eevdf: Allow shorter slices to wakeup-preempt Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-05 12:24 ` Chunxin Zang
2024-08-07 17:54 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-13 10:44 ` Chunxin Zang
2024-08-08 10:15 ` Chen Yu
2024-08-08 10:22 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-08 12:31 ` Chen Yu
2024-08-09 7:35 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 22/24] sched/eevdf: Use sched_attr::sched_runtime to set request/slice suggestion Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [PATCH 23/24] sched/eevdf: Propagate min_slice up the cgroup hierarchy Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-18 6:23 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-29 2:02 ` [PATCH 23/24] " Tianchen Ding
2024-07-27 10:27 ` [RFC PATCH 24/24] sched/time: Introduce CLOCK_THREAD_DVFS_ID Peter Zijlstra
2024-07-28 21:30 ` Thomas Gleixner
2024-07-29 7:53 ` Juri Lelli
2024-08-02 11:29 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-19 11:11 ` Christian Loehle
2024-08-01 12:08 ` [PATCH 00/24] Complete EEVDF Luis Machado
2024-08-14 14:34 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-14 16:45 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-08-14 16:59 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-14 17:18 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-08-14 17:25 ` Vincent Guittot
2024-08-14 17:35 ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-08-16 15:22 ` Valentin Schneider
2024-08-20 16:43 ` Hongyan Xia
2024-08-21 9:46 ` Hongyan Xia
2024-08-21 16:25 ` Mike Galbraith
2024-08-22 15:55 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-08-27 9:43 ` Hongyan Xia
2024-08-29 17:02 ` Aleksandr Nogikh
2024-09-10 11:45 ` Sven Schnelle
2024-09-10 12:21 ` Sven Schnelle
2024-09-10 14:07 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-09-10 14:52 ` Sven Schnelle
2024-11-06 1:07 ` Saravana Kannan
2024-11-06 6:19 ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-11-06 11:09 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-06 12:06 ` Luis Machado
2024-11-08 7:07 ` Saravana Kannan
2024-11-08 23:17 ` Samuel Wu
2024-11-11 4:07 ` K Prateek Nayak
2024-11-26 23:32 ` Saravana Kannan
2024-11-28 10:32 ` [REGRESSION] " Marcel Ziswiler
2024-11-28 10:58 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-11-28 11:37 ` Marcel Ziswiler
2024-11-29 9:08 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-12-02 18:46 ` Marcel Ziswiler
2024-12-09 9:49 ` Peter Zijlstra
2024-12-10 16:05 ` Marcel Ziswiler
2024-12-10 16:13 ` Steven Rostedt
2024-12-10 8:45 ` Luis Machado
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as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).