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From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: K Prateek Nayak <kprateek.nayak@amd.com>
Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@redhat.com>,
	Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>,
	Valentin Schneider <vschneid@redhat.com>,
	Ben Segall <bsegall@google.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@arm.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
	Sebastian Andrzej Siewior <bigeasy@linutronix.de>,
	Clark Williams <clrkwllms@kernel.org>,
	linux-rt-devel@lists.linux.dev, Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>,
	Frederic Weisbecker <frederic@kernel.org>,
	Barret Rhoden <brho@google.com>, Petr Mladek <pmladek@suse.com>,
	Josh Don <joshdon@google.com>, Qais Yousef <qyousef@layalina.io>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	David Vernet <dvernet@meta.com>,
	"Gautham R. Shenoy" <gautham.shenoy@amd.com>,
	Swapnil Sapkal <swapnil.sapkal@amd.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/22] sched/fair: Defer CFS throttling to exit to user mode
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 12:32:27 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20250220113227.GL34567@noisy.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <b2386349-2879-4dce-afb0-f6486c24c117@amd.com>

On Thu, Feb 20, 2025 at 04:48:58PM +0530, K Prateek Nayak wrote:

> The rationale there was with growing number of tasks on cfs_rq, the
> throttle path has to perform a lot of dequeues and the unthrottle at
> distribution has to enqueue all the dequeued threads back.
> 
> This is one way to keep all the tasks queued but allow pick to only
> select among those that are preempted in kernel mode.
> 
> Since per-task throttling needs to tag, dequeue, and re-enqueue each
> task, I'm putting this out as an alternate approach that does not
> increase the complexities of tg_tree walks which Ben had noted on
> Valentin's series [1]. Instead we retain the per cfs_rq throttling
> at the cost of some stats tracking at enqueue and dequeue
> boundaries.
> 
> If you have a strong feelings against any specific part, or the entirety
> of this approach, please do let me know, and I'll do my best to see if
> a tweaked approach or an alternate implementation can scale well with
> growing thread counts (or at least try to defend the bits in question if
> they hold merit still).
> 
> Any and all feedback is appreciated :)

Pfff.. I hate it all :-)

So the dequeue approach puts the pain on the people actually using the
bandwidth crud, while this 'some extra accounting' crap has *everybody*
pay for this nonsense, right?

I'm not sure how bad this extra accounting is, but I do fear death by a
thousand cuts.

  reply	other threads:[~2025-02-20 11:32 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-02-20  9:32 [RFC PATCH 00/22] sched/fair: Defer CFS throttling to exit to user mode K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 01/22] kernel/entry/common: Move syscall_enter_from_user_mode_work() out of header K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20 10:43   ` Peter Zijlstra
2025-02-20 10:56     ` K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 02/22] sched/fair: Convert "se->runnable_weight" to unsigned int and pack the struct K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 03/22] [PoC] kernel/entry/common: Mark syscall as a kernel critical section K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 04/22] [PoC] kernel/sched: Inititalize "kernel_cs_count" for new tasks K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 05/22] sched/fair: Track EEVDF stats for entities preempted in kernel mode K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 06/22] sched/fair: Propagate the min_vruntime of kernel mode preempted entity K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 07/22] sched/fair: Propagate preempted entity information up cgroup hierarchy K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 08/22] sched/fair: Allow pick_eevdf() to pick in-kernel entities on throttled hierarchy K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 09/22] sched/fair: Introduce cfs_rq throttled states in preparation for partial throttling K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 10/22] sched/fair: Prepare throttle_cfs_rq() to allow " K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 11/22] sched/fair: Prepare unthrottle_cfs_rq() to demote throttle status K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 12/22] sched/fair: Prepare bandwidth distribution to unthrottle partial throttles right away K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 13/22] sched/fair: Correct the throttle status supplied to pick_eevdf() K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 14/22] sched/fair: Mark a task if it was picked on a partially throttled hierarchy K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 15/22] sched/fair: Call resched_curr() from sched_notify_syscall_exit() K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 16/22] sched/fair: Prepare enqueue to partially unthrottle cfs_rq K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 17/22] sched/fair: Clear pick on throttled indicator when task leave fair class K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 18/22] sched/fair: Prepare pick_next_task_fair() to unthrottle a throttled hierarchy K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 19/22] sched/fair: Ignore in-kernel indicators for running task outside of schedule() K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 20/22] sched/fair: Implement determine_throttle_state() for partial throttle K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 21/22] [MAYBE BUGFIX] sched/fair: Group all the se->min_* members together for propagation K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20  9:32 ` [RFC PATCH 22/22] [DEBUG] sched/fair: Debug pick_eevdf() returning NULL! K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20 10:55 ` [RFC PATCH 00/22] sched/fair: Defer CFS throttling to exit to user mode Peter Zijlstra
2025-02-20 11:18   ` K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-20 11:32     ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2025-02-20 12:04       ` K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-21  2:04         ` Josh Don
2025-02-21  3:37           ` K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-21 19:42             ` Josh Don
2025-02-20 15:40       ` Valentin Schneider
2025-02-20 16:58         ` K Prateek Nayak
2025-02-21  1:47         ` Josh Don
2025-02-25 21:13           ` Valentin Schneider

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