From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-pl1-f178.google.com (mail-pl1-f178.google.com [209.85.214.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A0FE182D9 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2024 16:36:12 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.214.178 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1733330173; cv=none; b=p06sZ/b6ugi8qsiWZjYYPIlQEIZoVscSpNobQbN9Ql36AC1AhBC9drIrah/Hpz+X+yxRiXblRNWOJcq2rkLh1XwbJttLhRgVFoomuVHbMPdniPaon4lBB9XlvndSMapw5+87PIH5/3x5mqyxv7Hs7RLgdy3cR4wMddf5cK7ZbvA= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1733330173; c=relaxed/simple; bh=XIp2HnEBwxrCbQQ7Wteksg6Xj0ba4HtjLTdVyqpEJvE=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=GBhtGmI0CLZSUPitZMj004EWVCYh/WcwxcS2TroKVxYHJu2xqtl14+petBNaCUC41pKD0XNdCZ247scn5EAu40pzfm69aY47SiXRLZW5VrIes8azGqLvaz355wtFqz6BknEsMXa4jip6U8VaSUeAaqe6L/DVW38cApYWT2CxN9w= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=kernel.dk; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=kernel.dk; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel-dk.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.i=@kernel-dk.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.b=oBkh3P/J; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.214.178 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=kernel.dk Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=kernel.dk Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel-dk.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.i=@kernel-dk.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.b="oBkh3P/J" Received: by mail-pl1-f178.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-215770613dbso31815325ad.2 for ; Wed, 04 Dec 2024 08:36:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kernel-dk.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1733330171; x=1733934971; darn=vger.kernel.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mBbo3x7wMFASP+XmblVLwMY6/AMJyW6BW/SbEh64LkY=; b=oBkh3P/JffZWQNJJJ0csj7vVSOYBFU2zv58GYJm2LMH1maOToFJX84ltqLRPhLehgR F36h89bVg4FOuCI35Uq31MjY1yXIZjtP/WaJOm/rcb61GfVMUsajS2uMigEd+Jd8r7jz U4yJMZw0d6Zvt5N7F5l+LwaDlY0gCUGBLn15Xp4+KEvDAbpqFhhB+rRRoKyOEBS8WMKe uIbsl9bXKVD6zxjLFejmkycc500ITeQ4MaqGiStaHQHt+31K2vHhClh5yq7KDG7WdcGT Dv7mAh44HKiYkAyHexQZsAqEUKiSqzxvU6p87kFYjec93AC7xN1pGzNIKWfCAXibroeJ dtjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1733330171; x=1733934971; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mBbo3x7wMFASP+XmblVLwMY6/AMJyW6BW/SbEh64LkY=; b=k7w9TPaV34nUPK1SdZ5qNBXF9cv12q9pLP3+5t6abpvKgQcrSIE0qhx8zVa/kP81WO D8wZ2j73cNnHsOwY2oZ7rFA9wZWH9jCsrb5XslOA7ySfrlVb73WYSLIB47E7Mj8PGd49 N3lC6mqOHKXdHBG1YhRW1ttel9sxUAogqQwErrBr61GTPyIwezVC330azTzgJs1FfSdK z0UjTAaeQP47MfWC0UqFC+KU2TQmQ+RLhs/1arny2TI/ZiAi8InN3P6ynu51AyP2X47L G4PWxz88KgTTc1jJuFPHpYHh9ofgT0uf5MSp0P/0vO2lJOjvBQQkUo2yTAV1Oaguq2Jo ZGpQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWB0RVSzcUGB1ZTMivRx0JQjdbpW2c1A5we4qkYqtrIn7rNYAjKWBL7+9pF9A1M2j7nc2rXgbS2/qHddn0=@vger.kernel.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyTafkdFMfe3mjMDj7Jyaka1L5Khqq/x1FlvGF/OI31JCwrDivk carEWOvpxMOZv159FAHxnHtMoq7pLo9SCvPjolmW5PbjDYGgbc1f8uMLThXjSkw= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvIzbZnw059gnk/maIpKqmCa3SjnM8R+Q0AfFrl5T7zxblk6zVM7yJz8FBOkKC /JpJ2OErjVQ25OYmjgBeNIehvvxrMaX5sr00zP2SfNLiE/bzhEEdvdtud/xdzQcbDy82Lkm6zIG GN0IIHFN/vxdWzn1Z7rd5rACbIWtZ/5DI/NAGq/Z4KrAGkQdqT1acUteUHscG8RbsyBovT74RHx sLUjhm2+Wt2rkHAAMJjOInYSoCzoc9Uxr/gnSq+nW5Y9MiUgcmIRGt1BA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFq0BWXPoO7jWkTFXTi5lL/pCwZIadLDCF1MS35XKXYXClo4zLPDa/VIHisfmZxq+inWAb0tA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:1c9:b0:215:6211:693 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-215bd18ed72mr65189235ad.57.1733330171446; Wed, 04 Dec 2024 08:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPV6:2620:10d:c096:122::1:2343? ([2620:10d:c090:600::1:a7a9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-215219c52b6sm113227935ad.254.2024.12.04.08.36.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Dec 2024 08:36:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <2c851bce-a65e-4132-9e0b-e7519e22dbca@kernel.dk> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 09:36:09 -0700 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCHSET v6 0/12] Uncached buffered IO To: "Darrick J. Wong" Cc: "Christoph Lameter (Ampere)" , linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, hannes@cmpxchg.org, clm@meta.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, willy@infradead.org, kirill@shutemov.name, bfoster@redhat.com References: <20241203153232.92224-2-axboe@kernel.dk> <668f271f-dc44-49e1-b8dc-08e65e1fec23@kernel.dk> <36599cce-42ba-ddfb-656f-162548fdb300@gentwo.org> <20241204055241.GA7820@frogsfrogsfrogs> Content-Language: en-US From: Jens Axboe In-Reply-To: <20241204055241.GA7820@frogsfrogsfrogs> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 12/3/24 10:52 PM, Darrick J. Wong wrote: > On Tue, Dec 03, 2024 at 03:41:53PM -0700, Jens Axboe wrote: >> On 12/3/24 3:16 PM, Christoph Lameter (Ampere) wrote: >>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024, Jens Axboe wrote: >>> >>>> I actually did consider using some form of temporal, as it's the only >>>> other name I liked. But I do think cached_uncached becomes pretty >>>> unwieldy. Which is why I just stuck with uncached. Yes I know it means >>>> different things in different circles, but probably mostly an overlap >>>> with deeper technical things like that. An honestly almost impossible to >>>> avoid overlap these days, everything has been used already :-) >>>> >>>> IOW, I think uncached is probably still the most descriptive thing out >>>> there, even if I'm certainly open to entertaining other names. Just not >>>> anything yet that has really resonated with me. >>> >>> How about calling this a "transitory" page? It means fleeting, not >>> persistent and I think we have not used that term with a page/folio yet. >> >> I also hit the thesaurus ;-) >> >> I'm honestly not too worried about the internal name, as developers can >> figure that out. It's more about presenting an external name that sys >> developers will not need a lot of explaining to know what it's about. >> And something that isn't too long. BRIEFLY_CACHED? TRANSIENT_CACHE? >> >> Dunno, I keep going back to uncached as it's pretty easy to grok! > > RWF_DONTCACHE, to match {I,DCACHE}_DONTCACHE ? ;) > > They sound pretty similar ("load this so I can do something with it, > evict it immediately if possible") though I wouldn't rely on people > outside the kernel being familiar with the existing dontcaches. Naming is hard! Most people do seem to grok what uncached means, when I've shopped it around. The fact that it does use the page cache is pretty irrelevant, that's more of an implementation detail to solve various issues around competing users of it. That it doesn't persist is the important bit, and uncached does seem to relay that pretty nicely. -- Jens Axboe