From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mgamail.intel.com (mgamail.intel.com [198.175.65.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6E9B8C11; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 05:18:06 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.175.65.20 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1737091090; cv=none; b=VLyG5/s7ywiI+kN32rh8HXDZUlBiFSSZS6JgAzWxm+vAWwfYTgKW9x9Fgw1UKxE6PyBdIZjFVBQN0p03Eu7JSX4P3SayZg6zGvSuHabbv+d6NBQNDa6hQQZ6y0fI9NY/Iv7QpBQjQHhjBz2eiVZq9jl6H24Qial8QbFHR4dRG7A= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1737091090; c=relaxed/simple; bh=BTeRvv3Vr19AnLchBid5kcPBPh9Xd8ij7DUG2XYKyvI=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=g3bBLP3wAfm/fUhZJ2jfAnICgo1F0VuCnTjpgIuF0QEnssovP5HdOHZmtPoIjLKY0asjVOTv/SwhrP2XCYkwhUpnBQ32uyjoMJfuYvs0q82p3ar0we3cTLxkAiuAz5oaFkudInG1vZP5piWv3ALTAi8tnIgTy1Lk+JUx6at9M1s= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=linux.intel.com; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux.intel.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=intel.com header.i=@intel.com header.b=AxFcD0UQ; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.175.65.20 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=linux.intel.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux.intel.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=intel.com header.i=@intel.com header.b="AxFcD0UQ" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=intel.com; i=@intel.com; q=dns/txt; s=Intel; t=1737091090; x=1768627090; h=message-id:date:mime-version:subject:to:cc:references: from:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BTeRvv3Vr19AnLchBid5kcPBPh9Xd8ij7DUG2XYKyvI=; b=AxFcD0UQ4FtiCvgWkj56yGLTaKngKwNRtPLpjBdQeP0B210VN7uEJLKt EuFKQkLI9+WZ1GSRcY9O3T2fTE/8YX0La8B5tWHFGDftLM/oO4ItfJh6w +QWtm++jLMLqxVYG0wYSWs5MZmokcuhOZW+kHSa5t2nXrnaBUOQaNIXXp Iehlj1cT+BRLLBD+CqgqK7coOla4O53eIfkgbW6/JzBMIbNCn/FCajJY5 uBXNYcml9bH/O/bxJzugd1ug9KGv/OzBr4oWz1LITVNl4EiBl2abMeIQ3 tXrQBl0LL0uqYTar+RcS0xdeFbX/pVwf+Mj/EyTaKE1StlYPZDGt6Kdzb Q==; X-CSE-ConnectionGUID: HleKTQs/Tgmdo350lyClFA== X-CSE-MsgGUID: 4Mfr8ghLR1qiGmw7EinHWw== X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="6700,10204,11317"; a="37205749" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="6.13,211,1732608000"; d="scan'208";a="37205749" Received: from fmviesa004.fm.intel.com ([10.60.135.144]) by orvoesa112.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 16 Jan 2025 21:18:07 -0800 X-CSE-ConnectionGUID: ga1oZfpUTEme9ECt2VaL3w== X-CSE-MsgGUID: 3TzD/DKcQVKCqooN+DVo/w== X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="6.13,211,1732608000"; d="scan'208";a="110701778" Received: from jwang112-mobl2.ccr.corp.intel.com (HELO [10.238.128.245]) ([10.238.128.245]) by fmviesa004-auth.fm.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 16 Jan 2025 21:18:03 -0800 Message-ID: <33b89995-b638-4a6b-a75f-8278562237c4@linux.intel.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 13:18:01 +0800 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH] x86/fred: Optimize the FRED entry by prioritizing high-probability event dispatching To: Xin Li , "H. Peter Anvin" , Ethan Zhao , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, stable@vger.kernel.org Cc: tglx@linutronix.de, dave.hansen@linux.intel.com, x86@kernel.org, andrew.cooper3@citrix.com, mingo@redhat.com, bp@alien8.de References: <20250116065145.2747960-1-haifeng.zhao@linux.intel.com> <417271c4-0297-41da-a39b-5d5b28dd73f9@zytor.com> <05b13e99-c7e5-4db7-90bd-a89a91f4e327@zytor.com> <56b92130-7082-422c-952c-9834ebdb7268@linux.intel.com> <4d485294-959b-42a6-a847-513e8e3d0070@zytor.com> From: Ethan Zhao Autocrypt: addr=haifeng.zhao@linux.intel.com; keydata= xsDNBGdk+/wBDADPlR5wKSRRgWDfH5+z+LUhBsFhuVPzmVBykmUECBwzIF/NgKeuRv2U0GT1 GpbF6bDQp6yJT8pdHj3kk612FqkHVLlMGHgrQ50KmwClPp7ml67ve8KvCnoC1hjymVj2mxnL fdfjwLHObkCCUE58+NOCSimJOaicWr39No8t2hIDkahqSy4aN2UEqL/rqUumxh8nUFjMQQSR RJtiek+goyH26YalOqGUsSfNF7oPhApD6iHETcUS6ZUlytqkenOn+epmBaTal8MA9/X2kLcr IFr1X8wdt2HbCuiGIz8I3MPIad0Il6BBx/CS0NMdk1rMiIjogtEoDRCcICJYgLDs/FjX6XQK xW27oaxtuzuc2WL/MiMTR59HLVqNT2jK/xRFHWcevNzIufeWkFLPAELMV+ODUNu2D+oGUn/6 BZ7SJ6N6MPNimjdu9bCYYbjnfbHmcy0ips9KW1ezjp2QD+huoYQQy82PaYUtIZQLztQrDBHP 86k6iwCCkg3nCJw4zokDYqkAEQEAAc0pRXRoYW4gWmhhbyA8aGFpZmVuZy56aGFvQGxpbnV4 LmludGVsLmNvbT7CwQcEEwEIADEWIQSEaSGv5l4PT4Wg1DGpx5l9v2LpDQUCZ2T7/AIbAwQL CQgHBRUICQoLBRYCAwEAAAoJEKnHmX2/YukNztAL/jkfXzpuYv5RFRqLLruRi4d8ZG4tjV2i KppIaFxMmbBjJcHZCjd2Q9DtjjPQGUeCvDMwbzq1HkuzxPgjZcsV9OVYbXm1sqsKTMm9EneL nCG0vgr1ZOpWayuKFF7zYxcF+4WM0nimCIbpKdvm/ru6nIXJl6ZsRunkWkPKLvs9E/vX5ZQ4 poN1yRLnSwi9VGV/TD1n7GnpIYiDhYVn856Xh6GoR+YCwa1EY2iSJnLj1k9inO3c5HrocZI9 xikXRsUAgParJxPK80234+TOg9HGdnJhNJ3DdyVrvOx333T0f6lute9lnscPEa2ELWHxFFAG r4E89ePIa2ylAhENaQoSjjK9z04Osx2p6BQA0uZuz+fQh9TDqh4JRKaq50uPnM+uQ0Oss2Fx 4ApWvrG13GsjGF5Qpd7vl0/gxHtztDcr5Kln6U1i5FW0MP1Z6z/JRI2WPED1dnieA6/tBqwj oiHixmpw4Zp/5gITmGoUdF1jTwXcYC7cPM/dvsCZ1AGgdmk/ic7AzQRnZPv9AQwA0rdIWu25 zLsl9GLiZHGBVZIVut88S+5kkOQ8oIih6aQ8WJPwFXzFNrkceHiN5g16Uye8jl8g58yWP8T+ zpXLaPyq6cZ1bfjmxQ7bYAWFl74rRrdots5brSSBq3K7Q3W0v1SADXVVESjGa3FyaBMilvC/ kTrx2kqqG+jcJm871Lfdij0A5gT7sLytyEJ4GsyChsEL1wZETfmU7kqRpLYX+l44rNjOh7NO DX3RqR6JagRNBUOBkvmwS5aljOMEWpb8i9Ze98AH2jjrlntDxPTc1TazE1cvSFkeVlx9NCDE A6KDe0IoPB2X4WIDr58ETsgRNq6iJJjD3r6OFEJfb/zfd3W3JTlzfBXL1s2gTkcaz6qk/EJP 2H7Uc2lEM+xBRTOp5LMEIoh2HLAqOLEfIr3sh1negsvQF5Ll1wW7/lbsSOOEnKhsAhFAQX+i rUNkU8ihMJbZpIhYqrBuomE/7ghI/hs3F1GtijdM5wG7lrCvPeEPyKHYhcp3ASUrj8DMVEw/ ABEBAAHCwPYEGAEIACAWIQSEaSGv5l4PT4Wg1DGpx5l9v2LpDQUCZ2T7/QIbDAAKCRCpx5l9 v2LpDSePC/4zDfjFDg1Bl1r1BFpYGHtFqzAX/K4YBipFNOVWPvdr0eeKYEuDc7KUrUYxbOTV I+31nLk6HQtGoRvyCl9y6vhaBvcrfxjsyKZ+llBR0pXRWT5yn33no90il1/ZHi3rwhgddQQE 7AZJ6NGWXJz0iqV72Td8iRhgIym53cykWBakIPyf2mUFcMh/BuVZNj7+zdGHwkS+B9gIL3MD GzPKkGmv7EntB0ccbFVWcxCSSyTO+uHXQlc4+0ViU/5zw49SYca8sh2HFch93JvAz+wZ3oDa eNcrHQHsGqh5c0cnu0VdZabSE0+99awYBwjJi2znKp+KQfmJJvDeSsjya2iXQMhuRq9gXKOT jK7etrO0Bba+vymPKW5+JGXoP0tQpNti8XvmpmBcVWLY4svGZLunmAjySfPp1yTjytVjWiaL ZEKDJnVrZwxK0oMB69gWc772PFn/Sz9O7WU+yHdciwn0G5KOQ0bHt+OvynLNKWVR+ANGrybN 8TCx1OJHpvWFmL4Deq8= In-Reply-To: <4d485294-959b-42a6-a847-513e8e3d0070@zytor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 在 2025/1/17 12:43, Xin Li 写道: > On 1/16/2025 8:19 PM, Ethan Zhao wrote: >> >> 在 2025/1/17 9:21, H. Peter Anvin 写道: >>> On 1/16/25 16:37, Ethan Zhao wrote: >>>>> >>>>> hpa suggested to introduce "switch_likely" for this kind of >>>>> optimization >>>>> on a switch statement, which is also easier to read.  I measured >>>>> it with >>>>> a user space focus test, it does improve performance a lot. But >>>>> obviously there are still a lot of work to do. >>>> >>>> Find a way to instruct compiler to pick the right hot branch >>>> meanwhile make folks >>>> reading happy... yup, a lot of work. >>>> >>> >>> It's not that complicated, believe it or not. >>> >>> /* >>>  * switch(v) biased for speed in the case v == l >>>  * >>>  * Note: gcc is quite sensitive to the exact form of this >>>  * expression. >>>  */ >>> #define switch_likely(v,l) \ >>>     switch((__typeof__(v))__builtin_expect((v),(l))) >> >> I tried this macro as following, but got something really *weird* >> from gcc. >> >> +#define switch_likely(v,l) \ >> +        switch((__typeof__(v))__builtin_expect((v),(l))) >> + >>   __visible noinstr void fred_entry_from_user(struct pt_regs *regs) >>   { >>          unsigned long error_code = regs->orig_ax; >> +       unsigned short etype = regs->fred_ss.type & 0xf; >> >>          /* Invalidate orig_ax so that syscall_get_nr() works >> correctly */ >>          regs->orig_ax = -1; >> >> -       switch (regs->fred_ss.type) { >> +       switch_likely ((etype == EVENT_TYPE_EXTINT || etype == >> EVENT_TYPE_OTHER), etype) { > > Just swap the 2 arguments, and it should be: > +    switch_likely (etype, EVENT_TYPE_OTHER) { > > after swapped the parameters as following: +#define switch_likely(v,l) \ + switch((__typeof__(v))__builtin_expect((v),(l))) +  __visible noinstr void fred_entry_from_user(struct pt_regs *regs)  {         unsigned long error_code = regs->orig_ax; +       unsigned short etype = regs->fred_ss.type & 0xf;         /* Invalidate orig_ax so that syscall_get_nr() works correctly */         regs->orig_ax = -1; -       switch (regs->fred_ss.type) { +       switch_likely (etype, (EVENT_TYPE_EXTINT == etype || EVENT_TYPE_OTHER == etype)) {         case EVENT_TYPE_EXTINT:                 return fred_extint(regs);         case EVENT_TYPE_NMI: @@ -256,11 +260,12 @@ __visible noinstr void fred_entry_from_user(struct pt_regs *regs)  __visible noinstr void fred_entry_from_kernel(struct pt_regs *regs)  {         unsigned long error_code = regs->orig_ax; +       unsigned short etype = regs->fred_ss.type & 0xf;         /* Invalidate orig_ax so that syscall_get_nr() works correctly */         regs->orig_ax = -1; -       switch (regs->fred_ss.type) { +       switch_likely (etype, EVENT_TYPE_EXTINT == etype) {         case EVENT_TYPE_EXTINT:                 return fred_extint(regs);         case EVENT_TYPE_NMI: Good news -- the gcc works normal, generated right asm code, Bad news -- it fails back to binary search method to do matching, ignored our hints. $objdump -d vmlinux.o | awk '/:/{c=65} c&&c--' 00000000000016b0 :     16b0:       0f b6 87 a6 00 00 00 movzbl 0xa6(%rdi),%eax     16b7:       48 8b 77 78 mov    0x78(%rdi),%rsi     16bb:       55 push   %rbp     16bc:       48 c7 47 78 ff ff ff movq   $0xffffffffffffffff,0x78(%rdi)     16c3:       ff     16c4:       83 e0 0f and    $0xf,%eax     16c7:       48 89 e5 mov    %rsp,%rbp     16ca:       3c 03 cmp    $0x3,%al     16cc:       74 3c je     170a     16ce:       76 13 jbe    16e3     16d0:       3c 05 cmp    $0x5,%al     16d2:       74 41 je     1715     16d4:       3c 06 cmp    $0x6,%al     16d6:       75 27 jne    16ff     16d8:       e8 73 fe ff ff callq  1550     16dd:       5d pop    %rbp     16de:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   16e3     16e3:       84 c0 test   %al,%al     16e5:       74 42 je     1729     16e7:       3c 02 cmp    $0x2,%al     16e9:       75 14 jne    16ff     16eb:       80 bf a4 00 00 00 02 cmpb   $0x2,0xa4(%rdi)     16f2:       75 0b jne    16ff     16f4:       e8 00 00 00 00 callq  16f9     16f9:       5d pop    %rbp     16fa:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   16ff     16ff:       e8 1c fc ff ff callq  1320     1704:       5d pop    %rbp     1705:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   170a     170a:       e8 21 fd ff ff callq  1430     170f:       5d pop    %rbp     1710:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   1715     1715:       80 bf a4 00 00 00 01 cmpb   $0x1,0xa4(%rdi)     171c:       75 e1 jne    16ff     171e:       e8 00 00 00 00 callq  1723     1723:       5d pop    %rbp     1724:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   1729     1729:       e8 12 fb ff ff callq  1240     172e:       5d pop    %rbp     172f:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   1734     1734:       66 66 2e 0f 1f 84 00 data16 nopw %cs:0x0(%rax,%rax,1)     173b:       00 00 00 00     173f:       90                      nop $ objdump -d vmlinux.o | awk '/:/{c=65} c&&c--' 00000000000015a0 :     15a0:       0f b6 87 a6 00 00 00 movzbl 0xa6(%rdi),%eax     15a7:       48 8b 77 78 mov    0x78(%rdi),%rsi     15ab:       55 push   %rbp     15ac:       48 c7 47 78 ff ff ff movq   $0xffffffffffffffff,0x78(%rdi)     15b3:       ff     15b4:       83 e0 0f and    $0xf,%eax     15b7:       48 89 e5 mov    %rsp,%rbp     15ba:       3c 04 cmp    $0x4,%al     15bc:       74 78 je     1636     15be:       77 15 ja     15d5     15c0:       3c 02 cmp    $0x2,%al     15c2:       74 53 je     1617     15c4:       77 65 ja     162b     15c6:       84 c0 test   %al,%al     15c8:       75 42 jne    160c     15ca:       e8 71 fc ff ff callq  1240     15cf:       5d pop    %rbp     15d0:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   15d5     15d5:       3c 06 cmp    $0x6,%al     15d7:       74 7c je     1655     15d9:       72 66 jb     1641     15db:       3c 07 cmp    $0x7,%al     15dd:       75 2d jne    160c     15df:       8b 87 a4 00 00 00 mov    0xa4(%rdi),%eax     15e5:       25 ff 00 00 02 and    $0x20000ff,%eax     15ea:       3d 01 00 00 02 cmp    $0x2000001,%eax     15ef:       75 6f jne    1660     15f1:       48 8b 77 50 mov    0x50(%rdi),%rsi     15f5:       48 c7 47 50 da ff ff movq   $0xffffffffffffffda,0x50(%rdi)     15fc:       ff     15fd:       48 89 77 78 mov    %rsi,0x78(%rdi)     1601:       e8 00 00 00 00 callq  1606     1606:       5d pop    %rbp     1607:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   160c     160c:       e8 0f fd ff ff callq  1320     1611:       5d pop    %rbp     1612:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   1617     1617:       80 bf a4 00 00 00 02 cmpb   $0x2,0xa4(%rdi)     161e:       75 ec jne    160c     1620:       e8 00 00 00 00 callq  1625     1625:       5d pop    %rbp     1626:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   162b     162b:       e8 00 fe ff ff callq  1430     1630:       5d pop    %rbp     1631:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   1636     1636:       e8 85 fc ff ff callq  12c0     163b:       5d pop    %rbp     163c:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   1641     1641:       80 bf a4 00 00 00 01 cmpb   $0x1,0xa4(%rdi)     1648:       75 c2 jne    160c     164a:       e8 00 00 00 00 callq  164f     164f:       5d pop    %rbp     1650:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   1655     1655:       e8 f6 fe ff ff callq  1550     165a:       5d pop    %rbp     165b:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   1660     1660:       83 f8 02 cmp    $0x2,%eax     1663:       75 24 jne    1689     1665:       80 3d 00 00 00 00 00 cmpb   $0x0,0x0(%rip)        # 166c     166c:       74 1b je     1689     166e:       48 8b 47 50 mov    0x50(%rdi),%rax     1672:       48 c7 47 50 da ff ff movq   $0xffffffffffffffda,0x50(%rdi)     1679:       ff     167a:       48 89 47 78 mov    %rax,0x78(%rdi) In short, seems that __builtin_expect not work with switch(), at least for  gcc version 8.5.0 20210514(RHEL). Thanks， Ethan > Probably also check __builtin_expect on > https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Other-Builtins.html. > >>          case EVENT_TYPE_EXTINT: >>                  return fred_extint(regs); >>          case EVENT_TYPE_NMI: >> @@ -256,11 +260,12 @@ __visible noinstr void >> fred_entry_from_user(struct pt_regs *regs) >>   __visible noinstr void fred_entry_from_kernel(struct pt_regs *regs) >>   { >>          unsigned long error_code = regs->orig_ax; >> +       unsigned short etype = regs->fred_ss.type & 0xf; >> >>          /* Invalidate orig_ax so that syscall_get_nr() works >> correctly */ >>          regs->orig_ax = -1; >> >> -       switch (regs->fred_ss.type) { >> +       switch_likely (etype == EVENT_TYPE_EXTINT, etype) { >>          case EVENT_TYPE_EXTINT: >>                  return fred_extint(regs); >>          case EVENT_TYPE_NMI: >> >> Got the asm code as following: >> >>   objdump -d vmlinux.o | awk '/:/{c=65} c&&c--' >> 00000000000015a0 : >>      15a0:       0f b6 87 a6 00 00 00 movzbl 0xa6(%rdi),%eax >>      15a7:       48 8b 77 78 mov    0x78(%rdi),%rsi >>      15ab:       55 push   %rbp >>      15ac:       48 c7 47 78 ff ff ff movq >> $0xffffffffffffffff,0x78(%rdi) >>      15b3:       ff >>      15b4:       48 89 e5 mov    %rsp,%rbp >>      15b7:       66 83 e0 0f and    $0xf,%ax >>      15bb:       74 11 je     15ce >>      15bd:       66 83 f8 07 cmp    $0x7,%ax >>      15c1:       74 0b je     15ce >>      15c3:       e8 78 fc ff ff callq  1240 >>      15c8:       5d pop    %rbp >>      15c9:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   15ce >>      15ce:       e8 4d fd ff ff callq  1320 >>      15d3:       5d pop    %rbp >>      15d4:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   15d9 >>      15d9:       0f 1f 80 00 00 00 00 nopl   0x0(%rax) >> >> 00000000000015e0 <__pfx_fred_entry_from_kernel>: >>      15e0:       90                      nop >>      15e1:       90                      nop >> >> 00000000000015f0 : >>      15f0:       55 push   %rbp >>      15f1:       48 8b 77 78 mov    0x78(%rdi),%rsi >>      15f5:       48 c7 47 78 ff ff ff movq >> $0xffffffffffffffff,0x78(%rdi) >>      15fc:       ff >>      15fd:       48 89 e5 mov    %rsp,%rbp >>      1600:       f6 87 a6 00 00 00 0f testb  $0xf,0xa6(%rdi) >>      1607:       75 0b jne    1614 >>      1609:       e8 12 fd ff ff callq  1320 >>      160e:       5d pop    %rbp >>      160f:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   1614 >> >>      1614:       e8 27 fc ff ff callq  1240 >>      1619:       5d pop    %rbp >>      161a:       e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq   161f >> >>      161f:       90                      nop >> >> 0000000000001620 <__pfx___fred_entry_from_kvm>: >>      1620:       90                      nop >>      1621:       90                      nop >> >> >> Even the fred_entry_from_kernel() asm code doesn't look right. >> *gcc version 8.5.0 20210514 (Red Hat 8.5.0-10) (GCC)* >> ** >> *Did I screw up something ?* >> ** >> *Thanks,* >> *Ethan* >>> >>>     -hpa >>> >> > > -- "firm, enduring, strong, and long-lived"