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From: David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM>
To: 'Thomas Gleixner' <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Muhammad Usama Anjum <usama.anjum@collabora.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	"maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)"
	<x86@kernel.org>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	"open list:DOCUMENTATION" <linux-doc@vger.kernel.org>,
	open list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Guilherme G. Piccoli" <gpiccoli@igalia.com>
Cc: Muhammad Usama Anjum <usama.anjum@collabora.com>,
	Steven Noonan <steven@uplinklabs.net>,
	"kernel@collabora.com" <kernel@collabora.com>
Subject: RE: Direct rdtsc call side-effect
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 10:27:46 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <353732783fde46919fdcf698c326b7ed@AcuMS.aculab.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87mt1jeax1.ffs@tglx>

...
> Who would have thought that rdtsc() in applications can be a problem.
> Interfaces to query time exist for a reason and it's documented by
> Microsoft:
> 
> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/dxtecharts/game-timing-and-multicore-processors
> 
> But sure, reading documentation is overrated...

That eve says:
   "Multiprocessor and dual-core systems do not guarantee synchronization
   of their cycle counters between cores."

.
> Synchronizing TSC by writing the TSC MSR is fragile as hell. This has
> been tried so often and never reliably passed all synchronization tests
> on a wide range of systems.
> 
> It kinda works on single socket, but not on larger systems.
> 
> We spent an insane amount of time to make timekeeping correct and I'm
> not interested at all to deal with the fallout of such a mechanim.

I've wondered whether the TSC ought to be deliberately mis-synchronised?
So the high order bits are effectively the cpu number.

It has to be said that using it as a time source was fundamentally
a bad idea.
Sometimes (eg micro benchmarks) you really want a TSC.
You can extract one from the performance counters, but it is hard,
root only, and the library functions have high and variable overhead.

	David

-
Registered Address Lakeside, Bramley Road, Mount Farm, Milton Keynes, MK1 1PT, UK
Registration No: 1397386 (Wales)


  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-06-05 10:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 19+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-06-01  8:45 Direct rdtsc call side-effect Muhammad Usama Anjum
2023-06-01  8:56 ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-06-01  8:58   ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-06-01 10:31   ` Thomas Gleixner
2023-06-01 10:26 ` Thomas Gleixner
2023-06-01 18:20   ` Thomas Gleixner
2023-06-01 19:07     ` Steven Noonan
2023-06-01 19:31       ` H. Peter Anvin
2023-06-01 20:10       ` Thomas Gleixner
2023-06-01 20:13         ` Thomas Gleixner
2023-06-01 20:31       ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-06-01 21:41         ` Steven Noonan
2023-06-02  6:45           ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-06-05 10:27   ` David Laight [this message]
2023-06-05 14:43     ` Thomas Gleixner
2023-06-05 15:54       ` David Laight
2023-06-05 16:32         ` H. Peter Anvin
2023-06-06  8:23           ` David Laight
2023-06-09  0:14             ` H. Peter Anvin

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