Renaming lost+found

Renaming lost+found

[Rob Kaper]

If this is ext2 specific, just say so and I'll find a better list to discuss
this: (any good ext2 lists available for example?)

Is there a way to rename lost+found ?? It bothers me to see it in ls all the
time because 99.9% of my time it's just useless and I really think
.lost+found (a hidden file) would make much more sense for daily use. I
assume this would require some ext2 changes as well as a patch to e2fsck
etc. (with backwards compatibility of course)

Regards,

Rob
-- 
Rob Kaper | cap@capsi.com cap@capsi.net cap@capsi.co.uk
          | http://capsi.com/ - telnet://chat.capsi.com:2300/
          | 'What? In riddles?' said Gandalf. 'No! For I was talking aloud
          | to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person
          | present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young
          | are wearying.' - "Lord of the Rings", JRR Tolkien
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Re: Renaming lost+found

[Richard B. Johnson]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Rob Kaper wrote:

> If this is ext2 specific, just say so and I'll find a better list to discuss
> this: (any good ext2 lists available for example?)
> 
> Is there a way to rename lost+found ?? It bothers me to see it in ls all the
> time because 99.9% of my time it's just useless and I really think
> .lost+found (a hidden file) would make much more sense for daily use. I
> assume this would require some ext2 changes as well as a patch to e2fsck
> etc. (with backwards compatibility of course)

Get used to it. This is part of the Linux/Unix heritage!  A file-system
without a lost+found directory is like love without sex.


Cheers,
Dick Johnson

Penguin : Linux version 2.4.0 on an i686 machine (799.53 BogoMips).

"Memory is like gasoline. You use it up when you are running. Of
course you get it all back when you reboot..."; Actual explanation
obtained from the Micro$oft help desk.


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Re: Renaming lost+found

[James Lewis Nance]

On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:49:31AM -0500, Richard B. Johnson wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Rob Kaper wrote:
> > Is there a way to rename lost+found ?? It bothers me to see it in ls all the

> Get used to it. This is part of the Linux/Unix heritage!  A file-system
> without a lost+found directory is like love without sex.

FWIW IBM's JFS file system does not have a lost+found directory.  I dont
remember if reiserfs does or not.

Jim
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Re: Renaming lost+found

[Andreas Dilger]

Rob Kaper writes:
> Is there a way to rename lost+found ?? It bothers me to see it in ls all the
> time because 99.9% of my time it's just useless and I really think
> .lost+found (a hidden file) would make much more sense for daily use. I
> assume this would require some ext2 changes as well as a patch to e2fsck
> etc. (with backwards compatibility of course)

You could also just delete it, but then you run into problems when e2fsck
is run on a broken filesystem.  Use ext3 instead.  The lost+found dir is
in many (most?) Unix filesystems, for use when things go bad.

You _could_ change it to be a hidden file, but then you would have to
remember where it was after e2fsck moves half of your files into it
after a crash.  It probably wouldn't be too much work to change e2fsck.
You also need to change mke2fs and mklost+found as well.

Cheers, Andreas
-- 
Andreas Dilger  \ "If a man ate a pound of pasta and a pound of antipasto,
                 \  would they cancel out, leaving him still hungry?"
http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/               -- Dogbert
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Re: Renaming lost+found

[patrick.mourlhon]

An other maybe too obvious way, could be to :

alias ls='ls | grep -v "lost+found"'

if you are really annoyed by this tiny thing, which is  
IMHO, really the least thing i could be annoyed
of...
This took part on Unix file system design, from the
old days, as mentioned earlier by others.
Also think, that you might be happy the day, it will
be usefull... ;-)

Regards,

Patrick

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Andreas Dilger wrote:

> Rob Kaper writes:
> > Is there a way to rename lost+found ?? It bothers me to see it in ls all the
> > time because 99.9% of my time it's just useless and I really think
> > .lost+found (a hidden file) would make much more sense for daily use. I
> > assume this would require some ext2 changes as well as a patch to e2fsck
> > etc. (with backwards compatibility of course)
> 
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Re: Renaming lost+found

[Rodrigo Barbosa (aka morcego)]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 868 bytes --]

On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 01:19:49PM -0500, James Lewis Nance wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:49:31AM -0500, Richard B. Johnson wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Rob Kaper wrote:
> > > Is there a way to rename lost+found ?? It bothers me to see it in ls all the
> 
> > Get used to it. This is part of the Linux/Unix heritage!  A file-system
> > without a lost+found directory is like love without sex.
> 
> FWIW IBM's JFS file system does not have a lost+found directory.  I dont
> remember if reiserfs does or not.

I think JFS indeed doesn't have it. And ReiserFS doesn't too. This 
should be common place for journaling filesystems.

[]s

-- 
 Rodrigo Barbosa (morcego)         - rodrigob at conectiva.com.br
 Conectiva R&D Team                - http://distro.conectiva.com.br
 "Quis custodiet ipsos custodiet?" - http://www.conectiva.com


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 232 bytes --]

Re: Renaming lost+found

[patrick.mourlhon]

alias ls="ls -I "lost+found"'

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Mike Harrold wrote:

> > 
> > 
> > An other maybe too obvious way, could be to :
> > 
> > alias ls='ls | grep -v "lost+found"'
> 
> This turns multiple column output into one single column.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> /Mike
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Re: Renaming lost+found

[Stephen C. Tweedie]

Hi,

On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 06:05:54PM -0200, Rodrigo Barbosa (aka morcego) wrote:
> 
> I think JFS indeed doesn't have it. And ReiserFS doesn't too. This 
> should be common place for journaling filesystems.

No, it's nothing to do with journaling or not.  Even journaling
filesystems can suffer IO errors or corrupt disk blocks, and any case
where you have a file whose name has been lost due to such corruption
needs to be dealt with by the fsck tool.  Traditionally, fsck puts
such files into lost+found, and in the presence of data corruption, it
will still need to do so even with a journaling filesystem.

ext3 uses lost+found in exactly the same way as ext2 for this reason.

Cheers,
 Stephen
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Re: Renaming lost+found

[Thunder from the hill]

> A file-system without a lost+found directory is like love without sex.
You mean, possible but leaving you unsatisfied? Well, I think a file
system without a lost+found is a lot worse.

Thunder
---
Woah... I did a "cat /boot/vmlinuz >> /dev/audio" - and I think I heard
god...


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Re: Renaming lost+found

[Chris Mason]

On Friday, January 26, 2001 01:19:49 PM -0500 James Lewis Nance
<jlnance@intrex.net> wrote:

> FWIW IBM's JFS file system does not have a lost+found directory.  I dont
> remember if reiserfs does or not.
> 

reiserfsck creates it.

-chris

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Re: Renaming lost+found

[H. Peter Anvin]

Followup to:  <3A73565B.6EBC7F77@ngforever.de>
By author:    Thunder from the hill <thunder@ngforever.de>
In newsgroup: linux.dev.kernel
>
> > A file-system without a lost+found directory is like love without sex.
> You mean, possible but leaving you unsatisfied? Well, I think a file
> system without a lost+found is a lot worse.
> 

Hello people... the original question was: can lost+found be
*renamed*, i.e. does the tools (e2fsck &c) use "/lost+found" by name,
or by inode?  As far as I know it always uses the same inode number
(11), but I don't know if that is anywhere enforced.

	-hpa

-- 
<hpa@transmeta.com> at work, <hpa@zytor.com> in private!
"Unix gives you enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot."
http://www.zytor.com/~hpa/puzzle.txt
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Re: Renaming lost+found

[Mo McKinlay]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Today, H. Peter Anvin (hpa@zytor.com) wrote:

  > Hello people... the original question was: can lost+found be
  > *renamed*, i.e. does the tools (e2fsck &c) use "/lost+found" by name,
  > or by inode?  As far as I know it always uses the same inode number
  > (11), but I don't know if that is anywhere enforced.

I seem to recall e2fsck complaining when I renamed lost+found, but that
may well be a consistency check. Don't quote me on this, though.

Mo.

- -- 
Mo McKinlay
mmckinlay@gnu.org
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
GnuPG/PGP Key: pub  1024D/76A275F9 2000-07-22





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Support for 802.11 cards?

[Mike Pontillo]

Hello,

	I was wondering what 802.11 PCI cards anyone knows of that run 
under Linux-2.4. (or 2.2 for that matter)

	I have looked at Documentation/Configure.help and done a quick
grep of all the documentation for "802.11" without much luck. I can't seem
to find anything related to the aironet cards that are mentioned in
./Configure.help -- it would be a matter of guesswork for me to figure out
which, if any, Cisco card is the same one that the kernel supports.

	Does anyone know if anyone has released (working) drivers for
their 802.11 cards that have not been incorporated into the kernel?

	I know D-Link has some 802.11 cards out right now, but I haven't
seen any mention of support for Linux. I know other D-Link devices are
supported; does anyone know if someone is working on a driver for their
card? If not, have they been receptive to requests for documentation?

Thanks!

Mike Pontillo

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Re: Support for 802.11 cards?

[John Jasen]

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Mike Pontillo wrote:

> 	I was wondering what 802.11 PCI cards anyone knows of that run
> under Linux-2.4. (or 2.2 for that matter)

I _think_ a good many of the 802.11 wireless ISA and PCI cards are just
bus to PCMCIA adapters, so it would be a question of whether or not the
PCMCIA card is supported and if the bridge is supported.



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Re: Support for 802.11 cards?

[Michael H. Warfield]

On Sun, Jan 28, 2001 at 05:07:33PM -0500, John Jasen wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Mike Pontillo wrote:

> > 	I was wondering what 802.11 PCI cards anyone knows of that run
> > under Linux-2.4. (or 2.2 for that matter)

> I _think_ a good many of the 802.11 wireless ISA and PCI cards are just
> bus to PCMCIA adapters, so it would be a question of whether or not the
> PCMCIA card is supported and if the bridge is supported.

	Last I knew (straight from the Lucent people), the ISA bridge
card worked fine and the PCI card did NOT work at all.  I've since
confirmed that, first hand, myself (I currently have the ISA bridge in
operation) on the 2.2 kernels.  The ISA bridge also works on the 2.4
kernels but I have not retested the PCI bridge on 2.4.  The Lucent
people claim that the Linux pcmcia people are aware of the problem.

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (678) 463-0932   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!

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Re: Support for 802.11 cards?

[Joe deBlaquiere]

There is a rather informative discussion of wireless support at :

http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/Linux.Wireless.drivers.html

Though possibly a little out of date, the author of this obviously did 
their research. Kudos!

--
Joe

Michael H. Warfield wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 28, 2001 at 05:07:33PM -0500, John Jasen wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Mike Pontillo wrote:
> 
> 
>>> 	I was wondering what 802.11 PCI cards anyone knows of that run
>>> under Linux-2.4. (or 2.2 for that matter)
>> 
> 
>> I _think_ a good many of the 802.11 wireless ISA and PCI cards are just
>> bus to PCMCIA adapters, so it would be a question of whether or not the
>> PCMCIA card is supported and if the bridge is supported.
> 
> 
> 	Last I knew (straight from the Lucent people), the ISA bridge
> card worked fine and the PCI card did NOT work at all.  I've since
> confirmed that, first hand, myself (I currently have the ISA bridge in
> operation) on the 2.2 kernels.  The ISA bridge also works on the 2.4
> kernels but I have not retested the PCI bridge on 2.4.  The Lucent
> people claim that the Linux pcmcia people are aware of the problem.
> 
> 	Mike



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Re: Support for 802.11 cards?

[Anton Blanchard]

Hi,
 
> 	Last I knew (straight from the Lucent people), the ISA bridge
> card worked fine and the PCI card did NOT work at all.  I've since
> confirmed that, first hand, myself (I currently have the ISA bridge in
> operation) on the 2.2 kernels.  The ISA bridge also works on the 2.4
> kernels but I have not retested the PCI bridge on 2.4.  The Lucent
> people claim that the Linux pcmcia people are aware of the problem.

I have a PCI -> PCMCIA bridge + lucent wavelan card working fine with the
GPL driver (not the Lucent proprietory one) and 2.4. From memory all I had
to do was stop pcmcia-cs from using the lower io port range (there must
have been conflicts with existing devices).

#include port 0x100-0x4ff, port 0x800-0x8ff, port 0xc00-0xcff
include port 0x800-0x8ff, port 0xc00-0xcff

Anton
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Re: Renaming lost+found

[Mike Galbraith]

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Mo McKinlay wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Today, H. Peter Anvin (hpa@zytor.com) wrote:
> 
>   > Hello people... the original question was: can lost+found be
>   > *renamed*, i.e. does the tools (e2fsck &c) use "/lost+found" by name,
>   > or by inode?  As far as I know it always uses the same inode number
>   > (11), but I don't know if that is anywhere enforced.
> 
> I seem to recall e2fsck complaining when I renamed lost+found, but that
> may well be a consistency check. Don't quote me on this, though.

(pretty easy to find out:)

[root]:# fsck -f /test
Parallelizing fsck version 1.19 (13-Jul-2000)
e2fsck 1.19, 13-Jul-2000 for EXT2 FS 0.5b, 95/08/09
Pass 1: Checking inodes, blocks, and sizes
Pass 2: Checking directory structure
Pass 3: Checking directory connectivity
/lost+found not found.  Create<y>?

It created lost+found with inode 183 as 11 was used by renamed dir.
No idea if it would have trouble salvaging a corrupt fs after this.
(but logic says no it dare not)

	-Mike

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Re: Renaming lost+found

[Andreas Dilger]

H. Peter Anvin writes:
> Hello people... the original question was: can lost+found be
> *renamed*, i.e. does the tools (e2fsck &c) use "/lost+found" by name,
> or by inode?  As far as I know it always uses the same inode number
> (11), but I don't know if that is anywhere enforced.

Bzzt.  /lost+found just happens to use inode 11 on 99.9% of filesystems
because it is the first inode available when mke2fs is creating the
filesystem.  If you check <linux/ext2_fs.h>, it has:

#define EXT2_GOOD_OLD_FIRST_INO 11

It is perfectly acceptable to delete lost+found, and create it again
with mklost+found, and chances are it will have a different inode...
Just tested it, and sure enough, I got inode 612 for lost+found this time.
I'm pretty sure that e2fsck looks for the name /lost+found, rather than
inode 11.

This means that with stock e2fsck, mke2fs, mklost+found, you can't rename
lost+found and expect anything to work.  However, I would imagine it isn't
_too_ hard to change these tools to create a different directory, and for
e2fsck to look for the standard or the new directory to put nameless inodes.

Looking at the e2fsck source, there only appears to be a single instance of
the string "lost+found", in e2fsck/pass3.c:get_lost_and_found():

	static const char name[] = "lost+found";

Same with misc/mke2fs.c:create_lost_and_found() and misc/mklost+found.

Cheers, Andreas

PS - don't blame me if you never find your files after a bad crash.  At
     least when it is called "lost+found" you occasionally have a look
     in there.
-- 
Andreas Dilger  \ "If a man ate a pound of pasta and a pound of antipasto,
                 \  would they cancel out, leaving him still hungry?"
http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/               -- Dogbert
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Re: Support for 802.11 cards?

[Bryan O'Sullivan]

m> The ISA bridge also works on the 2.4 kernels but I have not
m> retested the PCI bridge on 2.4.

The Lucent PCI-to-Cardbus bridge only works on machines that have a
recent PCI BIOS.  Any motherboard more than about 16 months old simply
won't find the bridge card, and hence neither will Linux.

	<b
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Re: Support for 802.11 cards?

[Mike Pontillo]

	Hmm, this is interesting... I know that the kernel can be set to
try to detect PCI devices on its own, without the help of the BIOS. Is
there any reason why that feature wouldn't work with this particular type
of card?

Thanks,
Mike Pontillo


On 29 Jan 2001, Bryan O'Sullivan wrote:

> m> The ISA bridge also works on the 2.4 kernels but I have not
> m> retested the PCI bridge on 2.4.
> 
> The Lucent PCI-to-Cardbus bridge only works on machines that have a
> recent PCI BIOS.  Any motherboard more than about 16 months old simply
> won't find the bridge card, and hence neither will Linux.
> 
> 	<b
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Re: Renaming lost+found

[tytso]

On Sun, Jan 28, 2001 at 01:35:44PM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> *renamed*, i.e. does the tools (e2fsck &c) use "/lost+found" by name,
> or by inode?  As far as I know it always uses the same inode number

e2fsck uses /lost+found by name, not by inode.  It will recreate a new
lost+found directory if one doesn't exist.  *However*, if the
filesystem is badly corrupted, it's possible that when it allocates
blocks for the lost+found directory, it might override a datablock
that might possibly be recoverable if one were truly desparate and
using a disk editor to search for keywords.  (This would only happen
if part of the inode table had gotten corrupted due to a hardware
error --- i.e., such as the anecdotal evidence of DMA units that write
garbage to the disk because during a power failure, where it is
conjectured that the +5V power rail drops below the critical working
of the memory faster than +12V power rail drops below the critical
working volutage of the disk drive --- so that the record in the inode
table that a certain disk block was in use is erased.)

So if you really dislike lost+found, go ahead and delete it.  It
removes a somewhat tiny safeguard, but being able to take advantage of
it requires wizard-level skills (there are no tools to do this
automatically, since it requires human intuition and a knowledge of
what file you might be trying to save.)  So it would probably only be
used in the case of someone who had 10 year's of Ph.D. research that
wasn't backed up, and this was the only way they could get the data
back.  And although not doing disk backups is grounds for general
redicule, losing ten years of graduate research would probably be
reguarded by most as cruel and unusual punishment.  But if you're not
in a Ph.D. program, it doesn't matter, yes?  (And in any case, we ALL
do backups, all the time, religiously and on a regular schedule,
RIGHT?  :-)

						- Ted

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