Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Helge Hafting]

christophe barbe wrote:

> Moreover there is no need to be ignorant. With LPP, messages are displayed during the boot process and if something goes wrong an little picture inform you. And you can switch to the classic console when you want (by a simple CTRL-ALT-F2).

Interesting.  Stuff that makes linux look good is good, but please
make it optional.  (Perhaps a kernel parameter, boot=pretty)
Simple users can have their pretty boot, but some of us think
the text console is cool too.  Much like having one of those
cars with a plexiglass hood so anybody may admire the
fancy engine.

Helge Hafting
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[David Lang]

remember this will only affect those who use the frambuffer console
anyway. I for one never use frambuffer for my servers so it won't affect
the important machines anyway :-)

and for the desktop market, the idea of a pretty logo with the details a
keystroke away is not unreasonable

David Lang

 On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Helge Hafting wrote:

> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:21:52 +0100
> From: Helge Hafting <helgehaf@idb.hist.no>
> To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1
>
>
> christophe barbe wrote:
>
> > Moreover there is no need to be ignorant. With LPP, messages are displayed during the boot process and if something goes wrong an little picture inform you. And you can switch to the classic console when you want (by a simple CTRL-ALT-F2).
>
> Interesting.  Stuff that makes linux look good is good, but please
> make it optional.  (Perhaps a kernel parameter, boot=pretty)
> Simple users can have their pretty boot, but some of us think
> the text console is cool too.  Much like having one of those
> cars with a plexiglass hood so anybody may admire the
> fancy engine.
>
> Helge Hafting
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Miles Lane]

Helge Hafting wrote:

> christophe barbe wrote:
> 
> 
>> Moreover there is no need to be ignorant. With LPP, messages are displayed during the boot process and if something goes wrong an little picture inform you. And you can switch to the classic console when you want (by a simple CTRL-ALT-F2).
> 
> 
> Interesting.  Stuff that makes linux look good is good, but please
> make it optional.  (Perhaps a kernel parameter, boot=pretty)
> Simple users can have their pretty boot, but some of us think
> the text console is cool too.  Much like having one of those
> cars with a plexiglass hood so anybody may admire the
> fancy engine.

Right.  Add the option.  Default to "spew mode",
but make it easy for distributions to show people
a non-threatening boot process.  

Anyone who thinks that there aren't lots of people 
who simply freeze in terror at the thought of having
to understand and tweak their computers obviously
needs to spend more time socializing with non-gearheads.
For example, everytime I have tried to explain anything
to my mother-in-law about her computer, I might as well
be speaking Mongolian.  She gets confused if someone 
rearranges her desktop icons.  

Since, as Christophe mentions, the boot messages would
still be accessible via CTRL-ALT-F2, I don't see what 
the problem is with at least making this an option.

	Miles

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Werner Almesberger]

Miles Lane wrote:
> Since, as Christophe mentions, the boot messages would
> still be accessible via CTRL-ALT-F2, I don't see what 
> the problem is with at least making this an option.

Except if some initialization hangs your machine so badly that it even
won't respond to Ctrl-Alt-F2.

This could of course be cured by a little window where the last three or
four printk lines are shown ...

- Werner

-- 
  _________________________________________________________________________
 / Werner Almesberger, ICA, EPFL, CH           Werner.Almesberger@epfl.ch /
/_IN_N_032__Tel_+41_21_693_6621__Fax_+41_21_693_6610_____________________/
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Miles Lane]

Werner Almesberger wrote:

> Miles Lane wrote:
> 
>> Since, as Christophe mentions, the boot messages would
>> still be accessible via CTRL-ALT-F2, I don't see what 
>> the problem is with at least making this an option.
> 
> 
> Except if some initialization hangs your machine so badly that it even
> won't respond to Ctrl-Alt-F2.
> 
> This could of course be cured by a little window where the last three or
> four printk lines are shown ...

Actually, this is the best reason I've heard for not including
this "prettyfication" functionality at all.  Obviously, we
_do_ want people to be able to collect a complete OOPS.

I suppose perhaps an even more useful tweak to the this
idea would be that if the user holds down a special key
during the start of boot, the whole prettyfication stuff
isn't used and the VT number 1 gets all the boot messages.

	Miles

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Werner Almesberger]

Miles Lane wrote:
> I suppose perhaps an even more useful tweak to the this
> idea would be that if the user holds down a special key
> during the start of boot, the whole prettyfication stuff
> isn't used and the VT number 1 gets all the boot messages.

Hmm, this adds a lot of steps between the first occurrence of the problem
and the first useful diagnostic message. I think telephone support people
would really hate to walk their customers through this ...

Besides, people may not have the patience or knowledge to retry, and
pursue other theories first, possibly causing more damage. Of course,
readily available diagnostics can't stop them, but they may at least make
it a bit more likely that people do the right thing.

- Werner

-- 
  _________________________________________________________________________
 / Werner Almesberger, ICA, EPFL, CH           Werner.Almesberger@epfl.ch /
/_IN_N_032__Tel_+41_21_693_6621__Fax_+41_21_693_6610_____________________/
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Nick Papadonis]

Maybe if you hold down a key at bootup, you can change to verbose output?

Werner Almesberger <Werner.Almesberger@epfl.ch> writes:

> Miles Lane wrote:
> > Since, as Christophe mentions, the boot messages would
> > still be accessible via CTRL-ALT-F2, I don't see what 
> > the problem is with at least making this an option.
> 
> Except if some initialization hangs your machine so badly that it even
> won't respond to Ctrl-Alt-F2.
> 
> This could of course be cured by a little window where the last three or
> four printk lines are shown ...
> 
> - Werner
> 
> -- 
>   _________________________________________________________________________
>  / Werner Almesberger, ICA, EPFL, CH           Werner.Almesberger@epfl.ch /
> /_IN_N_032__Tel_+41_21_693_6621__Fax_+41_21_693_6610_____________________/
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Mike Porter]

On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Miles Lane wrote:
> Helge Hafting wrote:
> > christophe barbe wrote:
> >> Moreover there is no need to be ignorant. With LPP, messages are displayed during the boot process and if something goes wrong an little picture inform you. And you can switch to the classic console when you want (by a simple CTRL-ALT-F2).
...
> Since, as Christophe mentions, the boot messages would
> still be accessible via CTRL-ALT-F2, I don't see what
> the problem is with at least making this an option.
>
> 	Miles

So long as the splash screen says "Press Ctrl-Alt-F2 to see system
boot messages".  I hate the MS-Windows way...I'm always having to
look up the special 'F-x' keys to make it boot safe mode, etc.

Mike

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

> Right.  Add the option.  Default to "spew mode",
> but make it easy for distributions to show people
> a non-threatening boot process.  

Wrong.
> 
> Since, as Christophe mentions, the boot messages would
> still be accessible via CTRL-ALT-F2, I don't see what 
> the problem is with at least making this an option.

If your system crashes hard, you have only graphical logo to stare
at. Any warning messages are hidden. Not good.
								Pavel
-- 
I'm pavel@ucw.cz. "In my country we have almost anarchy and I don't care."
Panos Katsaloulis describing me w.r.t. patents at discuss@linmodems.org
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Peter Kundrat]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2001 at 11:47:18PM +0100, Pavel Machek wrote:
> > Right.  Add the option.  Default to "spew mode",
> > but make it easy for distributions to show people
> > a non-threatening boot process.  
> 
> Wrong.
> > 
> > Since, as Christophe mentions, the boot messages would
> > still be accessible via CTRL-ALT-F2, I don't see what 
> > the problem is with at least making this an option.
> 
> If your system crashes hard, you have only graphical logo to stare
> at. Any warning messages are hidden. Not good.

One good compromise would be a small scrolling window with a few last kernel messages.
Another option would be to turn it off for next boot (assuming it is reproducible), 
either by setting bootparam or pressing alt-f2 early enough.

		pkx
-- 
Peter Kundrat
peter@kundrat.sk
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Miles Lane]

Pavel Machek wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> 
>> Right.  Add the option.  Default to "spew mode",
>> but make it easy for distributions to show people
>> a non-threatening boot process.  
> 
> Wrong.

We're talking about an _option_.  In fact, it could 
be set up as a boot time parameter.  Then, if a boot
process gets wedged, the user can just reboot with
the option disabled.

I really don't understand why this is such a hot
button for some people.  I repeat "option."

>> Since, as Christophe mentions, the boot messages would
>> still be accessible via CTRL-ALT-F2, I don't see what 
>> the problem is with at least making this an option.
> 
> If your system crashes hard, you have only graphical logo to stare
> at. Any warning messages are hidden. Not good.

Again.  Boot parameter.

	Miles

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[ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Juergen Schneider]

Hello everybody,

I've created a patch for kernel 2.4.1 that adds some fancy options for
the framebuffer console driver concerning the boot logo.
I've added logo animation and logo centering.
People may find this not very useful but nice to look at. :-)

It can be downloaded from:
   <ftp://ftp.tuxia.com/pub/linux/tuxia/anim-logo/AnimLogo.tgz>

With this tar ball comes the patch for kernel 2.4.1 and a small
program called xpm2splash to create animated linux_logo.h files
from XPM files.
The patch also contains an animated boot logo (that's why it is
so big).
It is the dancing penguin I've taken from the apache default
configuration of a SuSE 6.4 distribution.
(BTW who created this nice animation???)

So, try it and send your comments.

Juergen Schneider

PS: The patch should work with kernel 2.4.0 too.

PPS: Our FTP server seems to have some problems with the "ls"
     command. You should use "ls -l" or "dir" to get a
     directory listing. Sorry for that.

-- 
Dipl.-Inf. Juergen Schneider                    <juergen.schneider@tuxia.com>
TUXIA Deutschland GmbH
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Pavel Machek]

hi!

> I've created a patch for kernel 2.4.1 that adds some fancy options for
> the framebuffer console driver concerning the boot logo.
> I've added logo animation and logo centering.
> People may find this not very useful but nice to look at. :-)

Long time ago I joked that win2000 will have 30-minute film at the
bootup. [3.1 had picture, 95+ had static logo with moving line...] And
now it looks like _linux_ is getting that feature...
								Pavel,
wondering when linux boot gets so long that mpeg2 player gets
integrated into kernel.
-- 
I'm pavel@ucw.cz. "In my country we have almost anarchy and I don't care."
Panos Katsaloulis describing me w.r.t. patents at discuss@linmodems.org
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Mike A. Harris]

On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Pavel Machek wrote:

>> I've created a patch for kernel 2.4.1 that adds some fancy options for
>> the framebuffer console driver concerning the boot logo.
>> I've added logo animation and logo centering.
>> People may find this not very useful but nice to look at. :-)
>
>Long time ago I joked that win2000 will have 30-minute film at the
>bootup. [3.1 had picture, 95+ had static logo with moving line...] And
>now it looks like _linux_ is getting that feature...
>								Pavel,
>wondering when linux boot gets so long that mpeg2 player gets
>integrated into kernel.

;o)

I doubt strongly that that is technically possible. In fact I'm
sure it is not.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Mike A. Harris  -  Linux advocate  -  Free Software advocate
          This message is copyright 2001, all rights reserved.
  Views expressed are my own, not necessarily shared by my employer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
                                               - Aldous Huxley

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[christophe barbe]

Ok it seems not important to have a nice boot process but each time you show a linux machine to a M$ normal user (normal = not a programmer) his first reaction is something like ""what are all these strange output lines?". And it's the first thing that keep Windows user in the dark side. 
Windows hides (or try to do) all messages by a blue screen (light blue, when you are lucky). 

For these reason, I use LPP (linux patch progress). It's a little patch. The main idea is : redirect all boot messages on the second console, display on the first one a bigger framebuffer logo (screen size) and draw on it the progress bar, progress text and warning messages. A proc interface is provided for the second part of the boot process (echo "starting X Font Server" > /proc/progress).

The boot is not significantly longer (and with a well fitted kernel, is really faster than M$ Wx) and suddendly the first linux impression is really good.

I hope this kind of patch can be integrated in the kernel.

Christophe Barbé


On jeu, 08 fév 2001 13:37:48 Mike A. Harris wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Pavel Machek wrote:
> 
> >> I've created a patch for kernel 2.4.1 that adds some fancy options for
> >> the framebuffer console driver concerning the boot logo.
> >> I've added logo animation and logo centering.
> >> People may find this not very useful but nice to look at. :-)
> >
> >Long time ago I joked that win2000 will have 30-minute film at the
> >bootup. [3.1 had picture, 95+ had static logo with moving line...] And
> >now it looks like _linux_ is getting that feature...
> >								Pavel,
> >wondering when linux boot gets so long that mpeg2 player gets
> >integrated into kernel.
> 
> ;o)
> 
> I doubt strongly that that is technically possible. In fact I'm
> sure it is not.
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Mike A. Harris  -  Linux advocate  -  Free Software advocate
>           This message is copyright 2001, all rights reserved.
>   Views expressed are my own, not necessarily shared by my employer.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
>                                                - Aldous Huxley
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 
-- 
Christophe Barbé
Software Engineer
Lineo High Availability Group
42-46, rue Médéric
92110 Clichy - France
phone (33).1.41.40.02.12
fax (33).1.41.40.02.01
www.lineo.com
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Miles Lane]

christophe barbe wrote:

> Ok it seems not important to have a nice boot process but each time you show a linux machine to a M$ normal user (normal = not a programmer) his first reaction is something like ""what are all these strange output lines?". And it's the first thing that keep Windows user in the dark side. 
> Windows hides (or try to do) all messages by a blue screen (light blue, when you are lucky). 
> 
> For these reason, I use LPP (linux patch progress). It's a little patch. The main idea is : redirect all boot messages on the second console, display on the first one a bigger framebuffer logo (screen size) and draw on it the progress bar, progress text and warning messages. A proc interface is provided for the second part of the boot process (echo "starting X Font Server" > /proc/progress).
> 
> The boot is not significantly longer (and with a well fitted kernel, is really faster than M$ Wx) and suddendly the first linux impression is really good.
> 
> I hope this kind of patch can be integrated in the kernel.

Hi Christophe,

I agree that non-technical folks will be put off by
being shown the guts of the system.  But, I think the
kind of patch you are talking about belongs as either
an optional patch set aside for distribution developers
to apply to their retail kernels or as a configuration
option in the kernel tree.  The default should probably
be that anyone who builds their own kernel gets exposed
to the system internals.  

I do agree that there is a great need for the kind 
of functionality you describe.  With LPP, all the 
technical stuff is still accessible and user manuals
for retail distributions could easily guide the naive
user to that information in case of system problems.

	Miles

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Mike Galbraith]

On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, christophe barbe wrote:

> Ok it seems not important to have a nice boot process but each time you show a linux machine to a M$ normal user (normal = not a programmer) his first reaction is something like ""what are all these strange output lines?". And it's the first thing that keep Windows user in the dark side. 
> Windows hides (or try to do) all messages by a blue screen (light blue, when you are lucky). 
> 
> For these reason, I use LPP (linux patch progress). It's a little patch. The main idea is : redirect all boot messages on the second console, display on the first one a bigger framebuffer logo (screen size) and draw on it the progress bar, progress text and warning messages. A proc interface is provided for the second part of the boot process (echo "starting X Font Server" > /proc/progress).
> 
> The boot is not significantly longer (and with a well fitted kernel, is really faster than M$ Wx) and suddendly the first linux impression is really good.
> 
> I hope this kind of patch can be integrated in the kernel.

I hope that nothing like this is _ever_ integrated (and doubt I need
be concerned;).  IMHO, hiding output from users arrogantly assumes
that they are too stupid/ignorant to have any use for such information.

	-Mike

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[christophe barbe]

On ven, 09 fév 2001 08:03:14 Mike Galbraith wrote:
> I hope that nothing like this is _ever_ integrated (and doubt I need
> be concerned;).  IMHO, hiding output from users arrogantly assumes
> that they are too stupid/ignorant to have any use for such information.

Most user don't want to learn the internal stuff of their OS. They only want to use it and assume (or would like to) that everything is ok. 
You hope graphic boot capability will never be integrated in the kernel but I'm sure you are aware of what is an "OPTION".

Sure it's not a vital need. Distribution makers can already add this on their kernels (and in fact they do that, per example by using aurora). But it could result in a proper implementation. Required modifications are really small.

Moreover there is no need to be ignorant. With LPP, messages are displayed during the boot process and if something goes wrong an little picture inform you. And you can switch to the classic console when you want (by a simple CTRL-ALT-F2).

Christophe

-- 
Christophe Barbé
Software Engineer
Lineo High Availability Group
42-46, rue Médéric
92110 Clichy - France
phone (33).1.41.40.02.12
fax (33).1.41.40.02.01
www.lineo.com
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Mike Galbraith]

On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, christophe barbe wrote:

> On ven, 09 fév 2001 08:03:14 Mike Galbraith wrote:
> > I hope that nothing like this is _ever_ integrated (and doubt I need
> > be concerned;).  IMHO, hiding output from users arrogantly assumes
> > that they are too stupid/ignorant to have any use for such information.
> 
> Most user don't want to learn the internal stuff of their OS. They only want to use it and assume (or would like to) that everything is ok. 
> You hope graphic boot capability will never be integrated in the kernel but I'm sure you are aware of what is an "OPTION".

I give users more credit in the curiosity/observation department.  In
my experience, when a user fires up his/her box, independent of OS,
they watch it pretty closely.  This behavior begins roughly the first
time they lose a chunk of work ;-)

Whether the boot process is graphic or text doesn't matter.. some will
watch it and some will ignore it.

If I were an employer, I'd feel a lot better about my staff if I walk
by and catch them staring blankly at cryptic text vs a splash screen.

> Sure it's not a vital need. Distribution makers can already add this on their kernels (and in fact they do that, per example by using aurora). But it could result in a proper implementation. Required modifications are really small.

Yup.  Distributors can add whatever whistles/bells that fit their needs.

	-Mike

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Adrian Cox]

Mike Galbraith wrote:
> I give users more credit in the curiosity/observation department.  In
> my experience, when a user fires up his/her box, independent of OS,
> they watch it pretty closely.  This behavior begins roughly the first
> time they lose a chunk of work ;-)

I want to use this for embedded systems. For example, last weekend I was
on a bus where the advertising screen at the front went through a
complete (uncustomised) Windows 2000 boot. I want to do better than
that, and build an application specific splash screen early into the
boot process, with the detailed messages coming out through the serial
port.

- Adrian Cox
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Werner Almesberger]

Mike A. Harris wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Pavel Machek wrote:
>> wondering when linux boot gets so long that mpeg2 player gets
>> integrated into kernel.
> 
> ;o)
> 
> I doubt strongly that that is technically possible. In fact I'm
> sure it is not.

Why not ? Just preload the movie with the kernel, and you can start
playing as soon as framebuffer, timers, and interrupts are
available.

Of course, if the word gets out that you're writing such a patch,
the people from the village may come with torches ... ;-)

- Werner

-- 
  _________________________________________________________________________
 / Werner Almesberger, ICA, EPFL, CH           Werner.Almesberger@epfl.ch /
/_IN_N_032__Tel_+41_21_693_6621__Fax_+41_21_693_6610_____________________/
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Martin Laberge]

Juergen Schneider wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> I've created a patch for kernel 2.4.1 that adds some fancy options for
> the framebuffer console driver concerning the boot logo.
> I've added logo animation and logo centering.
> People may find this not very useful but nice to look at. :-)
>
> It can be downloaded from:
>    <ftp://ftp.tuxia.com/pub/linux/tuxia/anim-logo/AnimLogo.tgz>
>
> With this tar ball comes the patch for kernel 2.4.1 and a small
> program called xpm2splash to create animated linux_logo.h files
> from XPM files.
> The patch also contains an animated boot logo (that's why it is
> so big).
> It is the dancing penguin I've taken from the apache default
> configuration of a SuSE 6.4 distribution.
> (BTW who created this nice animation???)
>
> So, try it and send your comments.
>
> Juergen Schneider
>
> PS: The patch should work with kernel 2.4.0 too.
>
> PPS: Our FTP server seems to have some problems with the "ls"
>      command. You should use "ls -l" or "dir" to get a
>      directory listing. Sorry for that.
>
> --
> Dipl.-Inf. Juergen Schneider                    <juergen.schneider@tuxia.com>
> TUXIA Deutschland GmbH
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/

I beleive it is a very good idea... there has been many objections where
SYSTEM-HANG or CRASH or ANY-BAD-THING
would be difficult to trace for the geek... BUT , are you all believing the
system will be crashing most of the time, or will it be
running perfectly most of the time...

I want to install a system where my expectations, (when fully installed and
configured, once at the start) is for the system
to boot perfectly and do it's job MOST of the time, and if possible ALL of the
time.

I believe linux should be one of those systems... you start it and then use
it... it don't crash, don't hang...   it works...

Then it is a good idea to have a nice boot logo when the system start... for
your user happyness...
we should never lose the idea that this system is intended to be USED by
someone, not just DEBUGGED.

Go on, i would like to see this kind of thing, and would use it...

Martin Laberge
mlsoft@videotron.ca



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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Miles Lane]

Martin Laberge wrote:

> Juergen Schneider wrote:
> 
> 
>> Hello everybody,
>> 
>> I've created a patch for kernel 2.4.1 that adds some fancy options for
>> the framebuffer console driver concerning the boot logo.
>> I've added logo animation and logo centering.
>> People may find this not very useful but nice to look at. :-)
>> 
>> It can be downloaded from:
>>    <ftp://ftp.tuxia.com/pub/linux/tuxia/anim-logo/AnimLogo.tgz>
>> 
>> With this tar ball comes the patch for kernel 2.4.1 and a small
>> program called xpm2splash to create animated linux_logo.h files
>> from XPM files.
>> The patch also contains an animated boot logo (that's why it is
>> so big).
>> It is the dancing penguin I've taken from the apache default
>> configuration of a SuSE 6.4 distribution.
>> (BTW who created this nice animation???)
>> 
>> So, try it and send your comments.
>> 
>> Juergen Schneider
>> 
>> PS: The patch should work with kernel 2.4.0 too.
>> 
>> PPS: Our FTP server seems to have some problems with the "ls"
>>      command. You should use "ls -l" or "dir" to get a
>>      directory listing. Sorry for that.
>> 
>> --
>> Dipl.-Inf. Juergen Schneider                    <juergen.schneider@tuxia.com>
>> TUXIA Deutschland GmbH
> 
> 
> I beleive it is a very good idea... there has been many objections where
> SYSTEM-HANG or CRASH or ANY-BAD-THING
> would be difficult to trace for the geek... BUT , are you all believing the
> system will be crashing most of the time, or will it be
> running perfectly most of the time...

Linux does crash early in the boot process sometimes.  Folks are
correct to be worried about handling these early crashes in such
a way that the user can learn what is going wrong with the OS.

<snip>

> I believe linux should be one of those systems... you start it and then use
> it... it don't crash, don't hang...   it works...

It does crash and users can't know when it will happen 
ahead of time.  For example, I add a new piece of 
hardware that triggers a driver bug and BANG, the 
machine locks up on boot.  

Now, we can still have a "innocuous pretty boot" process,
as long as a boot parameter can be passed so that when
a kernel is crashing early in the boot process, the user
can disable the prettyboot and get to all the kernel 
messages.

<snip>

	Miles

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Rafael E. Herrera]

I've seen in recently purchased computers that the very initial
messages, like memory test, are masked by some kind of picture or logo
(example are the HP kayaks). They display a message saying that pressing
ESC or some function key displays the messages. Why not having the same
in this pretty boot option. I wouldn't mind not seeing all those
messages.

-- 
     Rafael
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Jonathan Morton]

>I've seen in recently purchased computers that the very initial
>messages, like memory test, are masked by some kind of picture or logo
>(example are the HP kayaks). They display a message saying that pressing
>ESC or some function key displays the messages. Why not having the same
>in this pretty boot option. I wouldn't mind not seeing all those
>messages.

Not good enough in isolation.  Suppose the kernel freezes at a very early
stage, such as while detecting the CPU(s) or PCI bridge - are your geeky
reaction times fast enough to dismiss the logo in time to see the relevant
messages?  I agree with others that this should be a boot option - and not
one that needs said option to switch it off (though there should be one).

Eg: in lilo.conf use append = "bootlogo" to turn the logo on (it should
always be off by default, but can be turned on by distro makers or
end-users) - but then if you type "linux nologo" at the LILO prompt, the
"nologo" should over-ride the "bootlogo" so there's always a way to see all
the messages.

--------------------------------------------------------------
from:     Jonathan "Chromatix" Morton
mail:     chromi@cyberspace.org  (not for attachments)
big-mail: chromatix@penguinpowered.com
uni-mail: j.d.morton@lancaster.ac.uk

The key to knowledge is not to rely on people to teach you it.

Get VNC Server for Macintosh from http://www.chromatix.uklinux.net/vnc/

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Animated framebuffer logo for 2.4.1

[Rafael E. Herrera]

> Not good enough in isolation.  Suppose the kernel freezes at a very early
> stage, such as while detecting the CPU(s) or PCI bridge - are your geeky
> reaction times fast enough to dismiss the logo in time to see the relevant
> messages?  I agree with others that this should be a boot option - and not
...
> Eg: in lilo.conf use append = "bootlogo" to turn the logo on (it should
> always be off by default, but can be turned on by distro makers or
> end-users) - but then if you type "linux nologo" at the LILO prompt, the
> "nologo" should over-ride the "bootlogo" so there's always a way to see all
> the messages.

In a PC and if using lilo, you always get a lilo prompt (if so
configured) after the initial power on tests. Passing a "nologo" option
to lilo would seem a reasonable way to turn the feature off. The same
could apply to othe boot loaders and other archs. By the way, suse 7.1
has a graphical boot, no animation though, just a big penguin; some
hacked lilo version, maybe?
-- 
     Rafael