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From: Abramo Bagnara <abramo@alsa-project.org>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>
Cc: Alon Ziv <alonz@nolaviz.org>,
	Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Mike Kravetz <mkravetz@sequent.com>,
	Ulrich Drepper <drepper@cygnus.com>
Subject: Re: light weight user level semaphores
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:43:51 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3ADF15C7.B11A5488@alsa-project.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0104190903560.3842-100000@penguin.transmeta.com>

Linus Torvalds wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Abramo Bagnara wrote:
> >
> > > [ Using file descriptors ]
> >
> > This would also permit:
> > - to have poll()
> > - to use mmap() to obtain the userspace area
> >
> > It would become something very near to sacred Unix dogmas ;-)
> 
> No, this is NOT what the UNIX dogmas are all about.
> 
> When UNIX says "everything is a file", it really means that "everything is
> a stream of bytes". Things like magic operations on file desciptors are
> _anathema_ to UNIX. ioctl() is the worst wart of UNIX. Having magic
> semantics of file descriptors is NOT Unix dogma at all, it is a horrible
> corruption of the original UNIX cleanlyness.

Nice outpouring indeed, it seems taken from L'Ouvre au Noir by
Marguerite Yourcenar ;-)))

You're perfectly right but the file descriptor solution appeared to me a
nice way to work around the Unix limitation to have poll(2) working only
on file descriptor.

Said this, I've no doubt that a better poll-like syscall would solve all
that in a more elegant way.

You understand that sometime we've no other choice that to design
workarounds to minimize needed changes (and then often to maximize
acceptance probability).

OTOH you may always decide to do things in the elegant way, you've such
a responsibility for linux kernel.

-- 
Abramo Bagnara                       mailto:abramo@alsa-project.org

Opera Unica                          Phone: +39.546.656023
Via Emilia Interna, 140
48014 Castel Bolognese (RA) - Italy

ALSA project               http://www.alsa-project.org
It sounds good!

  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-04-19 16:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 62+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20010417114433.D1108@w-mikek2.sequent.com>
2001-04-17 19:48 ` light weight user level semaphores Linus Torvalds
2001-04-18 18:13   ` Bernd Eckenfels
2001-04-18 19:35   ` Ulrich Drepper
2001-04-19  8:20     ` Alon Ziv
2001-04-19  8:52       ` Abramo Bagnara
2001-04-19  9:08         ` Alexander Viro
2001-04-19 10:44           ` Abramo Bagnara
2001-04-19 16:11         ` Linus Torvalds
2001-04-19 16:33           ` Alexander Viro
2001-04-19 16:43             ` Linus Torvalds
2001-04-19 17:33               ` Alexander Viro
2001-04-19 17:38                 ` Linus Torvalds
2001-04-19 18:24                   ` Alexander Viro
2001-04-19 19:26                   ` Ulrich Drepper
2001-04-19 19:35                     ` Alan Cox
2001-04-19 20:06                       ` Ulrich Drepper
2001-04-19 20:11                         ` Alan Cox
2001-04-19 20:26                           ` Ulrich Drepper
2001-04-19 20:22                     ` Ingo Oeser
2001-04-19 20:40                       ` Ulrich Drepper
2001-04-19 20:51                       ` Linus Torvalds
2001-04-19 21:38                       ` Alan Cox
2001-04-19 20:49                     ` Linus Torvalds
2001-04-19 21:18                       ` Ulrich Drepper
2001-04-19 21:41                         ` Linus Torvalds
2001-04-19 22:46                           ` Ulrich Drepper
2001-04-20  1:35                             ` Alexander Viro
2001-04-20  2:45                               ` Ulrich Drepper
2001-04-19 16:43           ` Abramo Bagnara [this message]
2001-04-19 20:47           ` Ingo Oeser
2001-04-19 20:54             ` Linus Torvalds
2001-04-19  9:08       ` Ingo Oeser
2001-04-19 11:51       ` Alan Cox
2001-04-19 16:03       ` Linus Torvalds
2001-04-19 16:38         ` Alan Cox
2001-04-19 16:46           ` Linus Torvalds
2001-04-19 17:12             ` Alan Cox
2001-04-19 22:35               ` Rogier Wolff
2001-04-20  9:29             ` Olaf Titz
2001-04-20 14:19               ` Jesse Pollard
2001-04-20 18:36                 ` Olaf Titz
2001-04-20 23:33               ` Linus Torvalds
2001-04-21  4:06                 ` fd allocation [was: light weight user level semaphores] Edgar Toernig
2001-04-22  9:48                   ` Olaf Titz
2001-04-22 11:41                     ` light weight user level semaphores Alon Ziv
2001-04-22 12:44                       ` Alan Cox
2001-04-22 15:19                         ` Alon Ziv
2001-04-22 14:31                           ` Alexander Viro
2001-04-22 16:08                             ` Alon Ziv
2001-04-22 11:41                     ` Alon Ziv
2001-04-22 14:18                     ` David Woodhouse
2001-04-23 13:19                       ` David Howells
2001-04-23 14:48                         ` Alon Ziv
2001-04-23 15:40                           ` David Howells
2001-04-21 10:13                 ` Olaf Titz
2001-04-23 15:34                 ` Jeff Garzik
2001-04-23 19:18             ` Ingo Oeser
2001-04-24  0:19             ` David Wagner
2001-04-24  0:41               ` Alexander Viro
2001-04-19 19:47           ` Ulrich Drepper
2001-04-19 18:48         ` Olaf Titz
2001-04-19 13:59 George Talbot

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