Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[Yaacov Akiba Slama]

Hi,
 From what I understand from Linus's mail to lkml, there is a difference 
between JFS and XFS:
JFS doesn't require any modifications to existing code, its only an 
addition.
XFS on the contrary is far more intrusive.
So it seems that even if JFS is less complete than XFS (no ACL, quotas 
for instance), and even if it is less robust (I don't know if it is, I 
only used so far XFS and ext3 -with success), its inclusion in current 
kernel is a lot easier and I don't see any (technical) reason for not 
including it.
I don't think ext3 will have difficulties to be included in the kernel 
because a) the guys working on it are lk veterans and b) Redhat (VA 
also) is already including it in its kernels (rawhide AND 7.1 update).
So I only hope that the smart guys at SGI find a way to prepare the 
patches the way Linus loves because now the file 
"patch-2.4.5-xfs-1.0.1-core" (which contains the modifs to the kernel 
and not the new files) is about 174090 bytes which is a lot.

YA


*Kervin Pierre* (/ kpierre@fit.edu/ <mailto:kpierre@fit.edu> ) wrote :

Hello,

Question.

Are there plans to include JFS and XFS in the kernel?

Both those projects have been declared stable by their development
teams, and I'm guessing they can now be included as experimental, just
as reiser has been.

Just curious,
-Kervin

Steve Best wrote:
/> /
/> June 28, 2001:/
/> /
/> IBM is pleased to announce the v 1.0.0 release of the open source/
/> Journaled File System (JFS), a high-performance, and scalable file/
/> system for Linux./
/> /
/> http://oss.software.ibm.com/jfs /
/> /
/> JFS is widely recognized as an industry-leading high-performance file/
/> system, providing rapid recovery from a system power outage or crash/
/> and the ability to support extremely large disk configurations. The/
/> open source JFS is based on proven journaled file system technology/
/> that is available in a variety of operating systems such as AIX and/
/> OS/2./
/> /
/> JFS was open sourced under the GNU General Public License with release/
/> v 0.0.1 on February 2. 2000 and has matured with help and support of the/
/> open source community and its "Enterprise ready" release today is due/
/> to joint work between the JFS team and the community. Following the/
/> development style of "Release Early, Release Often" the JFS open source/
/> project has seen 37 interim releases as part of the process./
/> /
/> The open source JFS for Linux v 1.0.0 is released for the Linux 2.4.x/
/> kernel and offers the following advanced features:/
/> /
/> * Fast recovery after a system crash or power outage/
/> /
/> * Journaling for file system integrity/
/> /
/> * Journaling of meta-data only/
/> /
/> * Extent-based allocation/
/> /
/> * Excellent overall performance/
/> /
/> * 64 bit file system/
/> /
/> * Built to scale. In memory and on-disk data structures are designed to/
/> scale beyond practical limit/
/> /
/> * Designed to operate on SMP hardware and also a great file system for/
/> your workstation/
/> /
/> * Completely free of prerequisite kernel changes (easy integration path/
/> into the kernel source tree)/
/> /
/> * Detailed Howto for creating a system with JFS as the /boot and /root/
/> file system using lilo/
/> /
/> * Complete set of file system utilities/
/> /
/> * On-disk compatibility with OS/2 JFS file systems/
/> /
/> The JFS Team (Barry Arndt, Steve Best, Dave Kleikamp)/
/> /
/> -/
/> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe 
linux-kernel" in/
/> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org/
/> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html /
/> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ /
-
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the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
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Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[Alan Cox]

> JFS doesn't require any modifications to existing code, its only an 
> addition.

It depends how clean the interface is. It is possible to avoid changing
core code by writing your own clone of it - that isnt good and doesnt make
people happy sometimes.

> XFS on the contrary is far more intrusive.

Right - XFS I think is 2.5 material - for cleanup time, for the core changes
it wants to provide. Maybe as a 2.4 backport later

Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[Steve Lord]

> Hi,

> So I only hope that the smart guys at SGI find a way to prepare the 
> patches the way Linus loves because now the file 
> "patch-2.4.5-xfs-1.0.1-core" (which contains the modifs to the kernel 
> and not the new files) is about 174090 bytes which is a lot.
> 
> YA
> 

But that is not a patch intended for Linus, it is intended to enable all
the XFS features. I have a couple of kernel patches which total 46298 bytes
which get you a working XFS filesystem in the kernel, and I could do
lots of things to make them smaller. When you hit header files in the
correct manner for different platforms the size tends to mushroom.
These lines are all in different fcntl.h files for example:

+#define O_INVISIBLE    01000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
+#define O_INVISIBLE    0x80000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
+#define O_INVISIBLE    02000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
+#define O_INVISIBLE    01000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
+#define O_INVISIBLE    01000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
+#define O_INVISIBLE    0x200000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
+#define O_INVISIBLE    01000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
+#define O_INVISIBLE    0x200000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
+#define O_INVISIBLE    01000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
+#define O_INVISIBLE    02000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
+#define O_INVISIBLE    0x80000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
+#define O_INVISIBLE    02000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */

You make the patches look a lot bigger than they really are. There is
a difference between a patch which is placing things in the correct
places and one which is designed to be as short as possible.

Steve

Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[Yaacov Akiba Slama]

Steve Lord wrote:

>>Hi,
>>
> 
>>So I only hope that the smart guys at SGI find a way to prepare the 
>>patches the way Linus loves because now the file 
>>"patch-2.4.5-xfs-1.0.1-core" (which contains the modifs to the kernel 
>>and not the new files) is about 174090 bytes which is a lot.
>>
>>YA
>>
>>
> 
> But that is not a patch intended for Linus, it is intended to enable all
> the XFS features. I have a couple of kernel patches which total 46298 bytes
> which get you a working XFS filesystem in the kernel, and I could do
> lots of things to make them smaller. When you hit header files in the
> correct manner for different platforms the size tends to mushroom.
> These lines are all in different fcntl.h files for example:
> 
> +#define O_INVISIBLE    01000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
> +#define O_INVISIBLE    0x80000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
> +#define O_INVISIBLE    02000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
> +#define O_INVISIBLE    01000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
> +#define O_INVISIBLE    01000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
> +#define O_INVISIBLE    0x200000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
> +#define O_INVISIBLE    01000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
> +#define O_INVISIBLE    0x200000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
> +#define O_INVISIBLE    01000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
> +#define O_INVISIBLE    02000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
> +#define O_INVISIBLE    0x80000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
> +#define O_INVISIBLE    02000000 /* invisible I/O, for DMAPI/XDSM */
> 
> You make the patches look a lot bigger than they really are. There is
> a difference between a patch which is placing things in the correct
> places and one which is designed to be as short as possible.
> 

Agree.
But IMHO, you need to be more "visible" and to already propose those 
kernel modifications - even not the final ones - in lkml in order to let 
everyone see them and change the current think (even by Alan) that XFS 
is too intrusive for 2.4.
There are other people involved in the files you need to change and the 
more your patches are visibles, the more they are "credibles".
I didn't want to critisize XFS (or JFS and ext3) but to give some points 
about their integration in 2.4.
YA


> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 



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Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[Luigi Genoni]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Yaacov Akiba Slama wrote:

> Hi,
>  From what I understand from Linus's mail to lkml, there is a difference
> between JFS and XFS:
> JFS doesn't require any modifications to existing code, its only an
> addition.
> XFS on the contrary is far more intrusive.
> So it seems that even if JFS is less complete than XFS (no ACL, quotas
> for instance), and even if it is less robust (I don't know if it is, I
It is not less complete nor less robust, it's a different technology and a
totally different approach.
Remember XFS was designed thinking to a kind of HW totally different from
PC, and so was for jfs. But somehow JFS is a better choice if you
do not have the last fastest CPU, and the last fastest scsi disk.
> only used so far XFS and ext3 -with success), its inclusion in current
> kernel is a lot easier and I don't see any (technical) reason for not
> including it.
I hope it will happen as soon.
ReiserFS is a good FS, probably is the best journaled FS you could find
out here, but how many memories with
the old dear jfs! And I have some pentium classic for non critical use
that would be so happy with it.
> I don't think ext3 will have difficulties to be included in the kernel
> because a) the guys working on it are lk veterans and b) Redhat (VA
> also) is already including it in its kernels (rawhide AND 7.1 update).
agree.
> So I only hope that the smart guys at SGI find a way to prepare the
> patches the way Linus loves because now the file
> "patch-2.4.5-xfs-1.0.1-core" (which contains the modifs to the kernel
> and not the new files) is about 174090 bytes which is a lot.
mmm.
I doubt it will be easy.
I should check better, but i think it requires eavy changes to VFS.

oh, by the way.
On a 8 processor origin 2000, with a not so eavy I/O, I usually see
1 processor
totally used just for journaling. (different HW, different Unix ....)

Luigi

Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[james rich]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Luigi Genoni wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Yaacov Akiba Slama wrote:
> 
> > So it seems that even if JFS is less complete than XFS (no ACL, quotas
> > for instance), and even if it is less robust (I don't know if it is, I
> It is not less complete nor less robust, it's a different technology and a
> totally different approach.
> Remember XFS was designed thinking to a kind of HW totally different from
> PC, and so was for jfs. But somehow JFS is a better choice if you
> do not have the last fastest CPU, and the last fastest scsi disk.

This is simply not true.  I run xfs on three systems - none of which have
anything close to the latest cpu.  Each system runs faster after
installing xfs.  Since linux-kernel is not the place for advocacy I
suggest a comparison be for your particular setup to determine which is
best for you.

James Rich
james.rich@m.cc.utah.edu

Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[Luigi Genoni]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, james rich wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Luigi Genoni wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Yaacov Akiba Slama wrote:
> >
> > > So it seems that even if JFS is less complete than XFS (no ACL, quotas
> > > for instance), and even if it is less robust (I don't know if it is, I
> > It is not less complete nor less robust, it's a different technology and a
> > totally different approach.
> > Remember XFS was designed thinking to a kind of HW totally different from
> > PC, and so was for jfs. But somehow JFS is a better choice if you
> > do not have the last fastest CPU, and the last fastest scsi disk.
>
> This is simply not true.  I run xfs on three systems - none of which have
> anything close to the latest cpu.  Each system runs faster after
> installing xfs.  Since linux-kernel is not the place for advocacy I
> suggest a comparison be for your particular setup to determine which is
> best for you.
Please,
I was not making any advocacy. I was saying that there are two different
approach, and incidentally refered my own experience. Then, telling
about jfs to be light, I was not
saying XFS is slow! probably my english was not good enought
to express my thought.

Luigi

Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[Martin Knoblauch]

Hi,

 first of all congratulations for finishing the initial first release.
Some questions, just out of curiosity:


>* Fast recovery after a system crash or power outage 
>
>* Journaling for file system integrity 
>
>* Journaling of meta-data only 
>

 does this mean JSF/Linux always journals only the meta-data, or is that
an option?
Does it perform full data-journaling under AIX?

>* Extent-based allocation 
>
>* Excellent overall performance 
>
>* 64 bit file system 
>
>* Built to scale. In memory and on-disk data structures are designed to 
>  scale beyond practical limit 

 Is this scaling only for size, or also for performance (many disks on
many controllers) like XFS (at least on SGI iron)?

Thanks
Martin
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Knoblauch         |    email:  Martin.Knoblauch@TeraPort.de
TeraPort GmbH            |    Phone:  +49-89-510857-309
C+ITS                    |    Fax:    +49-89-510857-111
http://www.teraport.de   |    Mobile: +49-170-4904759

Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[Steve Best]

June 28, 2001:

IBM is pleased to announce the v 1.0.0 release of the open source
Journaled File System (JFS), a high-performance, and scalable file
system for Linux.

http://oss.software.ibm.com/jfs

JFS is widely recognized as an industry-leading high-performance file
system, providing rapid recovery from a system power outage or crash
and the ability to support extremely large disk configurations. The
open source JFS is based on proven journaled file system technology
that is available in a variety of operating systems such as AIX and
OS/2.

JFS was open sourced under the GNU General Public License with release
v 0.0.1 on February 2. 2000 and has matured with help and support of the
open source community and its "Enterprise ready" release today is due
to joint work between the JFS team and the community. Following the
development style of "Release Early, Release Often" the JFS open source
project has seen 37 interim releases as part of the process.

The open source JFS for Linux v 1.0.0 is released for the Linux 2.4.x
kernel and offers the following advanced features:

* Fast recovery after a system crash or power outage

* Journaling for file system integrity

* Journaling of meta-data only

* Extent-based allocation

* Excellent overall performance

* 64 bit file system

* Built to scale. In memory and on-disk data structures are designed to
  scale beyond practical limit

* Designed to operate on SMP hardware and also a great file system for
  your workstation

* Completely free of prerequisite kernel changes (easy integration path
  into the kernel source tree)

* Detailed Howto for creating a system with JFS as the /boot and /root
  file system using lilo

* Complete set of file system utilities

* On-disk compatibility with OS/2 JFS file systems

The JFS Team (Barry Arndt, Steve Best, Dave Kleikamp)

Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[Daniel Phillips]

On Thursday 28 June 2001 16:22, Steve Best wrote:
> June 28, 2001:
>
> IBM is pleased to announce the v 1.0.0 release of the open source
> Journaled File System (JFS), a high-performance, and scalable file
> system for Linux.
>
> http://oss.software.ibm.com/jfs

Congratulations, and thanks for being so clued in about how to run your 
project.  Example: the way you provide the source - direct links to cvs, tgz 
and patches, no annoying cgi.  You guys get it, unlike some other names I 
won't mention (Sun ;-).

--
Daniel

Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[Daniel Phillips]

On Thursday 28 June 2001 17:52, I wrote:
> You guys get it, unlike some other names I won't mention (Sun ;-).

Whoops, I have to retract that, I just followed the link from lwn and 
downloaded the openoffice tarball and, yes, sun gets it too:

  http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/download.html

--
Daniel

Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[Kervin Pierre]

Hello,

Question.

Are there plans to include JFS and XFS in the kernel?  

Both those projects have been declared stable by their development
teams, and I'm guessing they can now be included as experimental, just
as reiser has been.

Just curious,
-Kervin


Steve Best wrote:
> 
> June 28, 2001:
> 
> IBM is pleased to announce the v 1.0.0 release of the open source
> Journaled File System (JFS), a high-performance, and scalable file
> system for Linux.
> 
> http://oss.software.ibm.com/jfs
> 
> JFS is widely recognized as an industry-leading high-performance file
> system, providing rapid recovery from a system power outage or crash
> and the ability to support extremely large disk configurations. The
> open source JFS is based on proven journaled file system technology
> that is available in a variety of operating systems such as AIX and
> OS/2.
> 
> JFS was open sourced under the GNU General Public License with release
> v 0.0.1 on February 2. 2000 and has matured with help and support of the
> open source community and its "Enterprise ready" release today is due
> to joint work between the JFS team and the community. Following the
> development style of "Release Early, Release Often" the JFS open source
> project has seen 37 interim releases as part of the process.
> 
> The open source JFS for Linux v 1.0.0 is released for the Linux 2.4.x
> kernel and offers the following advanced features:
> 
> * Fast recovery after a system crash or power outage
> 
> * Journaling for file system integrity
> 
> * Journaling of meta-data only
> 
> * Extent-based allocation
> 
> * Excellent overall performance
> 
> * 64 bit file system
> 
> * Built to scale. In memory and on-disk data structures are designed to
>   scale beyond practical limit
> 
> * Designed to operate on SMP hardware and also a great file system for
>   your workstation
> 
> * Completely free of prerequisite kernel changes (easy integration path
>   into the kernel source tree)
> 
> * Detailed Howto for creating a system with JFS as the /boot and /root
>   file system using lilo
> 
> * Complete set of file system utilities
> 
> * On-disk compatibility with OS/2 JFS file systems
> 
> The JFS Team (Barry Arndt, Steve Best, Dave Kleikamp)
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Re: Announcing Journaled File System (JFS) release 1.0.0 available

[Aaron Lehmann]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 09:22:13AM -0500, Steve Best wrote:
> June 28, 2001:
> 
> IBM is pleased to announce the v 1.0.0 release of the open source
> Journaled File System (JFS), a high-performance, and scalable file
> system for Linux.

Great!

I remember that awhile ago there were some case issues with JFS. Is it
fully case-sensitive now?