* Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*}
@ 2001-07-14 23:54 Adam Schrotenboer
2001-07-15 0:01 ` Thomas Zimmerman
2001-07-15 16:00 ` volodya
0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Adam Schrotenboer @ 2001-07-14 23:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: lkml, reiser
Sorry if this is a repost.
I am upgrading to a new 36GB HD, and intend to split it into 3 pieces:
one 7GB vfat, one ~28GB linux data (reiser or ext2), and 1GB swap.
I need to know if I can trust ReiserFS, as I do believe that I do want
ReiserFS.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-14 23:54 Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} Adam Schrotenboer @ 2001-07-15 0:01 ` Thomas Zimmerman 2001-07-15 16:00 ` volodya 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Thomas Zimmerman @ 2001-07-15 0:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: lkml [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 427 bytes --] On 14-Jul 07:54, Adam Schrotenboer wrote: > Sorry if this is a repost. > > I am upgrading to a new 36GB HD, and intend to split it into 3 pieces: > one 7GB vfat, one ~28GB linux data (reiser or ext2), and 1GB swap. > > I need to know if I can trust ReiserFS, as I do believe that I do want > ReiserFS. I have never lost data on ReiserFS. Infact, /usr shrunk by ~20megs changing from ext2 to reiserfs. Thomas [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 232 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-14 23:54 Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} Adam Schrotenboer 2001-07-15 0:01 ` Thomas Zimmerman @ 2001-07-15 16:00 ` volodya 2001-07-15 16:08 ` Alexander Viro ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: volodya @ 2001-07-15 16:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Adam Schrotenboer; +Cc: lkml, reiser On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Adam Schrotenboer wrote: > Sorry if this is a repost. > > I am upgrading to a new 36GB HD, and intend to split it into 3 pieces: > one 7GB vfat, one ~28GB linux data (reiser or ext2), and 1GB swap. > > I need to know if I can trust ReiserFS, as I do believe that I do want > ReiserFS. Which is a good point - can ext2 handle more than 4gig partitions ? I have some vague ideas that it doesn't (and that it does not handle files more than 2gig long). I am reasonable sure that ReiserFS is better in this regard though I am not certain about this either. Vladimir Dergachev > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 16:00 ` volodya @ 2001-07-15 16:08 ` Alexander Viro 2001-07-16 0:50 ` volodya 2001-07-15 16:33 ` Alan Cox 2001-07-16 4:39 ` Mike A. Harris 2 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Alexander Viro @ 2001-07-15 16:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: volodya; +Cc: Adam Schrotenboer, lkml, reiser On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 volodya@mindspring.com wrote: > Which is a good point - can ext2 handle more than 4gig partitions ? I have It can. > some vague ideas that it doesn't (and that it does not handle files more > than 2gig long). It does. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 16:08 ` Alexander Viro @ 2001-07-16 0:50 ` volodya 2001-07-16 0:54 ` Ragnar Kjørstad 2001-07-16 0:57 ` Alexander Viro 0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: volodya @ 2001-07-16 0:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alexander Viro; +Cc: Adam Schrotenboer, lkml, reiser On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, Alexander Viro wrote: > > > On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 volodya@mindspring.com wrote: > > > Which is a good point - can ext2 handle more than 4gig partitions ? I have > > It can. > > > some vague ideas that it doesn't (and that it does not handle files more > > than 2gig long). > > It does. > Umm that is very interesting - I was rather sure there were some problems a while ago (2.2.x ?). Is there anything special necessary to use large files ? Because I tried to create a 3+gig file and now I cannot ls or rm it. (More details: the file was created using dd from block device (tried to backup a smaller ext2 partition), ls and rm say "Value too large for defined data type" and I upgraded everything mentioned in Documentation/Changes). Vladimir Dergachev PS Yep, the new limits are clearly documented in Documentation/filesystems/ext2.txt - sorry for bothering anyone.. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-16 0:50 ` volodya @ 2001-07-16 0:54 ` Ragnar Kjørstad 2001-07-16 0:57 ` Alexander Viro 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Ragnar Kjørstad @ 2001-07-16 0:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: volodya; +Cc: Alexander Viro, Adam Schrotenboer, lkml, reiser On Sun, Jul 15, 2001 at 08:50:03PM -0400, volodya@mindspring.com wrote: > Umm that is very interesting - I was rather sure there were some problems > a while ago (2.2.x ?). Is there anything special necessary to use large > files ? Because I tried to create a 3+gig file and now I cannot ls or rm > it. (More details: the file was created using dd from block device (tried > to backup a smaller ext2 partition), ls and rm say "Value too large for > defined data type" and I upgraded everything mentioned in Documentation/Changes). Your utilities must be compiled with a recent glibc and with LFS (large file support). Any recent distribution should support this. -- Ragnar Kjorstad Big Storage ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-16 0:50 ` volodya 2001-07-16 0:54 ` Ragnar Kjørstad @ 2001-07-16 0:57 ` Alexander Viro 2001-07-16 1:22 ` volodya 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Alexander Viro @ 2001-07-16 0:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: volodya; +Cc: Adam Schrotenboer, lkml, reiser On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 volodya@mindspring.com wrote: > Umm that is very interesting - I was rather sure there were some problems > a while ago (2.2.x ?). Is there anything special necessary to use large > files ? Because I tried to create a 3+gig file and now I cannot ls or rm > it. (More details: the file was created using dd from block device (tried > to backup a smaller ext2 partition), ls and rm say "Value too large for > defined data type" and I upgraded everything mentioned in Documentation/Changes). <shrug> you need fileutils built with large file support enabled (basically, it should use stat64(), etc. and pass O_LARGEFILE to open()) and you need sufficiently recent libc. But that's the same regardless of fs type. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-16 0:57 ` Alexander Viro @ 2001-07-16 1:22 ` volodya 2001-07-16 1:48 ` Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: volodya @ 2001-07-16 1:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alexander Viro; +Cc: Adam Schrotenboer, lkml, reiser On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, Alexander Viro wrote: > > > On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 volodya@mindspring.com wrote: > > > Umm that is very interesting - I was rather sure there were some problems > > a while ago (2.2.x ?). Is there anything special necessary to use large > > files ? Because I tried to create a 3+gig file and now I cannot ls or rm > > it. (More details: the file was created using dd from block device (tried > > to backup a smaller ext2 partition), ls and rm say "Value too large for > > defined data type" and I upgraded everything mentioned in Documentation/Changes). > > <shrug> you need fileutils built with large file support enabled (basically, > it should use stat64(), etc. and pass O_LARGEFILE to open()) and you need > sufficiently recent libc. But that's the same regardless of fs type. > May I ask where does one get a patched fileutils package ? I have just downloaded fileutils-4.1 from prep.ai.mit.edu and it has 0 information in README, configure --help, etc on how to enable this and when compiled ls still complains. thanks ! Vladimir Dergachev ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-16 1:22 ` volodya @ 2001-07-16 1:48 ` Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams @ 2001-07-16 1:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: volodya; +Cc: Alexander Viro, Adam Schrotenboer, lkml, reiser On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 volodya@mindspring.com wrote: > May I ask where does one get a patched fileutils package ? I have just > downloaded fileutils-4.1 from prep.ai.mit.edu and it has 0 information in > README, configure --help, etc on how to enable this and when compiled ls > still complains. > > thanks ! > > Vladimir Dergachev The actual instructions are in the glibc documentation, in the section about file position. If I'm reading this correctly, you have to define _FILE_OFFSET_BITS to be 64, then the large file functions should overlay the regular ones transparently, but YMMV. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio@openservices.net> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 16:00 ` volodya 2001-07-15 16:08 ` Alexander Viro @ 2001-07-15 16:33 ` Alan Cox 2001-07-15 16:44 ` Hans Reiser 2001-07-16 4:39 ` Mike A. Harris 2 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Alan Cox @ 2001-07-15 16:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: volodya; +Cc: Adam Schrotenboer, lkml, reiser > Which is a good point - can ext2 handle more than 4gig partitions ? I have > some vague ideas that it doesn't (and that it does not handle files more > than 2gig long). I am reasonable sure that ReiserFS is better in this > regard though I am not certain about this either. Ext2 handles files larger than 2Gb, and can handle up to about 1Tb per volume which is the block layer fs size limit. Alan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 16:33 ` Alan Cox @ 2001-07-15 16:44 ` Hans Reiser 2001-07-15 16:46 ` Alan Cox ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Hans Reiser @ 2001-07-15 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alan Cox; +Cc: volodya, Adam Schrotenboer, lkml Alan Cox wrote: > > > Which is a good point - can ext2 handle more than 4gig partitions ? I have > > some vague ideas that it doesn't (and that it does not handle files more > > than 2gig long). I am reasonable sure that ReiserFS is better in this > > regard though I am not certain about this either. > > Ext2 handles files larger than 2Gb, and can handle up to about 1Tb per volume > which is the block layer fs size limit. > > Alan The limits for reiserfs and ext2 for kernels 2.4.x are the same (and they are 2Tb not 1Tb). The limits are not in the individual filesystems. We need to have Linux go to 64 bit blocknumbers in 2.5.x, I am seeing a lot of customer demand for it. (Or we could use scalable integers, which would be better.) Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 16:44 ` Hans Reiser @ 2001-07-15 16:46 ` Alan Cox 2001-07-15 17:54 ` Hans Reiser 2001-07-16 13:27 ` Marco Colombo 2001-07-15 17:58 ` Rob Turk 2001-07-15 21:30 ` Daniel Phillips 2 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Alan Cox @ 2001-07-15 16:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hans Reiser; +Cc: Alan Cox, volodya, Adam Schrotenboer, lkml > > Ext2 handles files larger than 2Gb, and can handle up to about 1Tb per volume > > which is the block layer fs size limit. > > > The limits for reiserfs and ext2 for kernels 2.4.x are the same (and they are 2Tb not 1Tb). The > limits are not in the individual filesystems. We need to have Linux go to 64 bit blocknumbers in Its 1 terabyte - there are some unclean sign bit abuses > 2.5.x, I am seeing a lot of customer demand for it. (Or we could use scalable integers, which would > be better.) We definitely need larger than 1Tb on 2.5.x. No argument there. I believe Ben had some prototype code for that. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 16:46 ` Alan Cox @ 2001-07-15 17:54 ` Hans Reiser 2001-07-15 18:17 ` Alan Cox 2001-07-16 13:27 ` Marco Colombo 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Hans Reiser @ 2001-07-15 17:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alan Cox; +Cc: volodya, Adam Schrotenboer, lkml Alan Cox wrote: > > > > Ext2 handles files larger than 2Gb, and can handle up to about 1Tb per volume > > > which is the block layer fs size limit. > > > > > The limits for reiserfs and ext2 for kernels 2.4.x are the same (and they are 2Tb not 1Tb). The > > limits are not in the individual filesystems. We need to have Linux go to 64 bit blocknumbers in > > Its 1 terabyte - there are some unclean sign bit abuses but for some servers that bigstorage.com ships, using some drivers, 2Tb works...:-) Ok, the limit is 1-2TB, depending, yes? Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 17:54 ` Hans Reiser @ 2001-07-15 18:17 ` Alan Cox 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Alan Cox @ 2001-07-15 18:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hans Reiser; +Cc: Alan Cox, volodya, Adam Schrotenboer, lkml > > Its 1 terabyte - there are some unclean sign bit abuses > > but for some servers that bigstorage.com ships, using some drivers, 2Tb works...:-) > Ok, the limit is 1-2TB, depending, yes? Yes. Something like that. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 16:46 ` Alan Cox 2001-07-15 17:54 ` Hans Reiser @ 2001-07-16 13:27 ` Marco Colombo 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Marco Colombo @ 2001-07-16 13:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: linux-kernel On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > > Ext2 handles files larger than 2Gb, and can handle up to about 1Tb per volume > > > which is the block layer fs size limit. > > > > > The limits for reiserfs and ext2 for kernels 2.4.x are the same (and they are 2Tb not 1Tb). The > > limits are not in the individual filesystems. We need to have Linux go to 64 bit blocknumbers in > > Its 1 terabyte - there are some unclean sign bit abuses Is this true also on 64-bits archs (Alpha, UltraSparc)? I guess limits listed in Documentation/filesystems/ext2.txt assume 32 bits. .TM. -- ____/ ____/ / / / / Marco Colombo ___/ ___ / / Technical Manager / / / ESI s.r.l. _____/ _____/ _/ Colombo@ESI.it ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 16:44 ` Hans Reiser 2001-07-15 16:46 ` Alan Cox @ 2001-07-15 17:58 ` Rob Turk 2001-07-15 21:30 ` Daniel Phillips 2 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Rob Turk @ 2001-07-15 17:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: linux-kernel "Hans Reiser" <reiser@namesys.com> wrote in message news:cistron.3B51C864.C98B61DE@namesys.com... > > The limits for reiserfs and ext2 for kernels 2.4.x are the same (and they are 2Tb not 1Tb). The > limits are not in the individual filesystems. We need to have Linux go to 64 bit blocknumbers in > 2.5.x, I am seeing a lot of customer demand for it. (Or we could use scalable integers, which would > be better.) > > Hans > - It appears to be 1TB. Just last week I tried a 1.1TB fibre RAID array, and found several signed/unsigned issues. Fdisk was unable to work with the array. This on Slackware 8.0 distribution with 2.4.6 kernel. Rob ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 16:44 ` Hans Reiser 2001-07-15 16:46 ` Alan Cox 2001-07-15 17:58 ` Rob Turk @ 2001-07-15 21:30 ` Daniel Phillips 2001-07-15 22:05 ` Hans Reiser ` (2 more replies) 2 siblings, 3 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Daniel Phillips @ 2001-07-15 21:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hans Reiser, Alan Cox; +Cc: volodya, Adam Schrotenboer, lkml On Sunday 15 July 2001 18:44, Hans Reiser wrote: > The limits for reiserfs and ext2 for kernels 2.4.x are the same (and > they are 2Tb not 1Tb). The limits are not in the individual > filesystems. We need to have Linux go to 64 bit blocknumbers in > 2.5.x, I am seeing a lot of customer demand for it. (Or we could use > scalable integers, which would be better.) Or we could introduce the notion of logical blocksize for each block minor so that we can measure blocks in the same units the filesystem uses. This would give us 16 TB while being able to stay with 32 bits everywhere outside the block drivers themselves. We are not that far away from being able to handle 8K blocks, so that would bump it up to 32 TB. -- Daniel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 21:30 ` Daniel Phillips @ 2001-07-15 22:05 ` Hans Reiser 2001-07-15 22:18 ` Daniel Phillips 2001-07-16 0:22 ` Albert D. Cahalan 2001-07-16 17:19 ` Jussi Laako 2 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Hans Reiser @ 2001-07-15 22:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Daniel Phillips; +Cc: Alan Cox, volodya, Adam Schrotenboer, lkml Daniel Phillips wrote: > > On Sunday 15 July 2001 18:44, Hans Reiser wrote: > > The limits for reiserfs and ext2 for kernels 2.4.x are the same (and > > they are 2Tb not 1Tb). The limits are not in the individual > > filesystems. We need to have Linux go to 64 bit blocknumbers in > > 2.5.x, I am seeing a lot of customer demand for it. (Or we could use > > scalable integers, which would be better.) > > Or we could introduce the notion of logical blocksize for each block > minor so that we can measure blocks in the same units the filesystem > uses. This would give us 16 TB while being able to stay with 32 bits > everywhere outside the block drivers themselves. > > We are not that far away from being able to handle 8K blocks, so that > would bump it up to 32 TB. > > -- > Daniel 16TB is not enough. I agree that blocknumbers are a significant space user in FS metadata, which is why I think scalable integers are correct. Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 22:05 ` Hans Reiser @ 2001-07-15 22:18 ` Daniel Phillips 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Daniel Phillips @ 2001-07-15 22:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hans Reiser; +Cc: Alan Cox, volodya, Adam Schrotenboer, lkml On Monday 16 July 2001 00:05, Hans Reiser wrote: > Daniel Phillips wrote: > > On Sunday 15 July 2001 18:44, Hans Reiser wrote: > > > The limits for reiserfs and ext2 for kernels 2.4.x are the same > > > (and they are 2Tb not 1Tb). The limits are not in the individual > > > filesystems. We need to have Linux go to 64 bit blocknumbers in > > > 2.5.x, I am seeing a lot of customer demand for it. (Or we could > > > use scalable integers, which would be better.) > > > > Or we could introduce the notion of logical blocksize for each > > block minor so that we can measure blocks in the same units the > > filesystem uses. This would give us 16 TB while being able to stay > > with 32 bits everywhere outside the block drivers themselves. > > > > We are not that far away from being able to handle 8K blocks, so > > that would bump it up to 32 TB. > > > > -- > > Daniel > > 16TB is not enough. > > I agree that blocknumbers are a significant space user in FS > metadata, which is why I think scalable integers are correct. I must have missed the place where you defined what scalable integers are. I'd think the prefered way of representing a logical block size is as a bit shift, not an absolute size, because it's far more efficient to use that way. Is this the same as a scalable integer? -- Daniel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 21:30 ` Daniel Phillips 2001-07-15 22:05 ` Hans Reiser @ 2001-07-16 0:22 ` Albert D. Cahalan 2001-07-16 12:49 ` Daniel Phillips 2001-07-17 19:40 ` Rob Landley 2001-07-16 17:19 ` Jussi Laako 2 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Albert D. Cahalan @ 2001-07-16 0:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Daniel Phillips; +Cc: Hans Reiser, Alan Cox, volodya, Adam Schrotenboer, lkml Daniel Phillips writes: > Or we could introduce the notion of logical blocksize for each block > minor so that we can measure blocks in the same units the filesystem > uses. This would give us 16 TB while being able to stay with 32 bits > everywhere outside the block drivers themselves. > > We are not that far away from being able to handle 8K blocks, so that > would bump it up to 32 TB. This is like what the hard drive and BIOS industry has been doing. First we had the 528 MB limit. Then the 2 GB limit. Then the 4 GB limit. Then the 8.3 GB limit. Then the 33 GB limit. Then the 127 GB limit. All along the way, users are cursing the damn limits. An extra 4 bits buys us 6 years maybe. Nice, except that we already have people complaining. Maybe somebody remembers when the complaining started. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-16 0:22 ` Albert D. Cahalan @ 2001-07-16 12:49 ` Daniel Phillips 2001-07-17 19:40 ` Rob Landley 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Daniel Phillips @ 2001-07-16 12:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Albert D. Cahalan, Daniel Phillips Cc: Hans Reiser, Alan Cox, volodya, Adam Schrotenboer, lkml On Monday 16 July 2001 02:22, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: > Daniel Phillips writes: > > Or we could introduce the notion of logical blocksize for each > > block minor so that we can measure blocks in the same units the > > filesystem uses. This would give us 16 TB while being able to stay > > with 32 bits everywhere outside the block drivers themselves. > > > > We are not that far away from being able to handle 8K blocks, so > > that would bump it up to 32 TB. > > This is like what the hard drive and BIOS industry has been doing. > First we had the 528 MB limit. Then the 2 GB limit. Then the 4 GB > limit. Then the 8.3 GB limit. Then the 33 GB limit. Then the 127 GB > limit. All along the way, users are cursing the damn limits. > > An extra 4 bits buys us 6 years maybe. Nice, except that we > already have people complaining. Maybe somebody remembers when > the complaining started. Well, that coincides nicely with the period when most of us will still be using 32 bit processors, don't you think? If we solve the problem of internal fragmentation (as Reiserfs has) and memory management then we can keep going on up to 64K blocksize, giving a 256 TB limit. Not too shabby. (Some things need fixing after that, e.g. Ext2 directory entry record sizes.) At the same time, the larger block size means that, to transfer a given number of blocks at random locations, less time is spent seeking and less time in setup. Larger blocks are good - there's a reason why the industry is heading in that direction. If it also helps us with our partition size limits, then why not take advantage of it. I'd say, do both, use the logical blocksize measurements and provide 64 bit block numbers as an option. Note that there is a bug-by-design that comes from measuring device capacity in 1K blocks the way we do now: on a device with 512 byte blocks we can't correctly determine when a block access is out of range. Measuring in logical block size would fix that cleanly. -- Daniel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-16 0:22 ` Albert D. Cahalan 2001-07-16 12:49 ` Daniel Phillips @ 2001-07-17 19:40 ` Rob Landley 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Rob Landley @ 2001-07-17 19:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Albert D. Cahalan; +Cc: lkml On Sunday 15 July 2001 20:22, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: > An extra 4 bits buys us 6 years maybe. Nice, except that we > already have people complaining. Maybe somebody remembers when > the complaining started. I blame Charles Babbage, myself... As for the scalable block numbers, assuming moore's law holds at 18 months/doubling without hitting subatomic quantum weirdness limits, the jump from 32 to 64 bits gives us another 48 years. 48 years ago was 1953. Univac (powered by vacuum tubes) hit the market in 1951. Project whirlwind would do prototype work applying transistors to computers in 1954. Just a sense of perspective. Scalable block numbers sound cool if they save metadata space, but not as a source of extra scalability. And they sound like a can of worms in terms of complexity. Feel free to bring up the Y2K problem as a counter-example as to why "rewriting it when it becomes a problem" is a bad idea. But the problem there was closed (and lost) source code, wasn't it? Rob ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 21:30 ` Daniel Phillips 2001-07-15 22:05 ` Hans Reiser 2001-07-16 0:22 ` Albert D. Cahalan @ 2001-07-16 17:19 ` Jussi Laako 2001-07-16 17:53 ` Daniel Phillips ` (2 more replies) 2 siblings, 3 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Jussi Laako @ 2001-07-16 17:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Daniel Phillips; +Cc: lkml Daniel Phillips wrote: > > We are not that far away from being able to handle 8K blocks, so that > would bump it up to 32 TB. That's way too small. Something like 32 PB would be better... ;) We need at least one extra bit in volume/file size every year. - Jussi Laako -- PGP key fingerprint: 161D 6FED 6A92 39E2 EB5B 39DD A4DE 63EB C216 1E4B Available at PGP keyservers ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-16 17:19 ` Jussi Laako @ 2001-07-16 17:53 ` Daniel Phillips 2001-07-16 19:16 ` Hans Reiser 2001-07-18 0:58 ` Dan Hollis 2 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Daniel Phillips @ 2001-07-16 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jussi Laako; +Cc: lkml On Monday 16 July 2001 19:19, Jussi Laako wrote: > Daniel Phillips wrote: > > We are not that far away from being able to handle 8K blocks, so > > that would bump it up to 32 TB. > > That's way too small. Something like 32 PB would be better... ;) Are you serious? What kind of application are you running? > We need at least one extra bit in volume/file size every year. OK, well hmm, then in 1969 we needed a volume size of 4K. Um, it's probably more accurate to use 18 months as the doubling period. Anyway, that's what the 64 bit option for buffer_head->b_blocknr is supposed to handle. The question is, is it necessary to go to a uniform 64 bit quantity for all users regardless of whether they feel restricted by a 32 TB volume size limit or not. /me figures it will be 9 years before he even has a 1 TB disk in his laptop OK, I looked again and saw the smiley. Sometimes it's hard to tell what's outrageous when talking about disk sizes. -- Daniel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-16 17:19 ` Jussi Laako 2001-07-16 17:53 ` Daniel Phillips @ 2001-07-16 19:16 ` Hans Reiser 2001-07-16 21:00 ` Jussi Laako 2001-07-16 22:28 ` Daniel Phillips 2001-07-18 0:58 ` Dan Hollis 2 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Hans Reiser @ 2001-07-16 19:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jussi Laako; +Cc: Daniel Phillips, lkml Jussi Laako wrote: > > Daniel Phillips wrote: > > > > We are not that far away from being able to handle 8K blocks, so that > > would bump it up to 32 TB. > > That's way too small. Something like 32 PB would be better... ;) > We need at least one extra bit in volume/file size every year. > > - Jussi Laako > > -- > PGP key fingerprint: 161D 6FED 6A92 39E2 EB5B 39DD A4DE 63EB C216 1E4B > Available at PGP keyservers > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ Daniel, if I was real sure that 64k blocks were the right answer, I would agree with you. I think nobody knows what will happen with reiserfs if we go to 64k blocks. It could be great. On the other hand, the average number of bytes memcopied with every small file insertion increases with node size. Scalable integers (Xanadu project idea in which the last bit of an integer indicates whether the integer is longer than the base size by an amount equal to the base size, chain can be infinitely long, they used a base size of 1 byte, but we could use a base size of 32 bits, and limit it to 64 bits rather than allowing infinite scaling) seem like more conservative coding. Hans ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-16 19:16 ` Hans Reiser @ 2001-07-16 21:00 ` Jussi Laako 2001-07-16 22:28 ` Daniel Phillips 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Jussi Laako @ 2001-07-16 21:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hans Reiser; +Cc: Daniel Phillips, lkml Hans Reiser wrote: > > infinitely long, they used a base size of 1 byte, but we could use a base > size of 32 bits, and limit it to 64 bits rather than allowing infinite > scaling) seem like more conservative coding. I think we should use either 32, 64 or 128 bits (or other 2^x) but not fiddle with something like 48 bits. I believe we lose more than we gain from added complexity. Ok, 128 bits sounds like an insane amount, but so did 2 TB in early 80's. - Jussi Laako -- PGP key fingerprint: 161D 6FED 6A92 39E2 EB5B 39DD A4DE 63EB C216 1E4B Available at PGP keyservers ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-16 19:16 ` Hans Reiser 2001-07-16 21:00 ` Jussi Laako @ 2001-07-16 22:28 ` Daniel Phillips 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Daniel Phillips @ 2001-07-16 22:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hans Reiser, Jussi Laako; +Cc: lkml On Monday 16 July 2001 21:16, Hans Reiser wrote: > Jussi Laako wrote: > > Daniel Phillips wrote: > > > We are not that far away from being able to handle 8K blocks, so > > > that would bump it up to 32 TB. > > > > That's way too small. Something like 32 PB would be better... ;) > > We need at least one extra bit in volume/file size every year. > > Daniel, if I was real sure that 64k blocks were the right answer, I > would agree with you. I think nobody knows what will happen with > reiserfs if we go to 64k blocks. For 32 bit block numbers: Logical Block Size Largest Volume ------------------ -------------- 4K 16 TB 8K 32 TB 16K 64 TB 32K 128 TB 64K 256 TB You don't have to go to the extreme of 64K blocksize to get big volumes. Anyway, with tailmerging there isn't really a downside to big blocks, assuming the tailmerging code is fairly mature and efficient. Maybe that's where we're still guessing? > It could be great. On the other > hand, the average number of bytes memcopied with every small file > insertion increases with node size. Scalable integers (Xanadu > project idea in which the last bit of an integer indicates whether > the integer is longer than the base size by an amount equal to the > base size, chain can be infinitely long, they used a base size of 1 > byte, but we could use a base size of 32 bits, and limit it to 64 > bits rather than allowing infinite scaling) seem like more > conservative coding. Yes, I've used similar things in the past, but only in serialized structures. In a fixed sized field it doesn't make a lot of sense. -- Daniel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-16 17:19 ` Jussi Laako 2001-07-16 17:53 ` Daniel Phillips 2001-07-16 19:16 ` Hans Reiser @ 2001-07-18 0:58 ` Dan Hollis 2 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Dan Hollis @ 2001-07-18 0:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jussi Laako; +Cc: Daniel Phillips, lkml On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Jussi Laako wrote: > Daniel Phillips wrote: > > We are not that far away from being able to handle 8K blocks, so that > > would bump it up to 32 TB. > That's way too small. Something like 32 PB would be better... ;) > We need at least one extra bit in volume/file size every year. volume size grows faster than file size, doesn't it? maybe extra bit of volume and 1/2 bit file size per year... -Dan -- [-] Omae no subete no kichi wa ore no mono da. [-] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} 2001-07-15 16:00 ` volodya 2001-07-15 16:08 ` Alexander Viro 2001-07-15 16:33 ` Alan Cox @ 2001-07-16 4:39 ` Mike A. Harris 2 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Mike A. Harris @ 2001-07-16 4:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: volodya; +Cc: Adam Schrotenboer, lkml, reiser On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 volodya@mindspring.com wrote: >> I am upgrading to a new 36GB HD, and intend to split it into 3 pieces: >> one 7GB vfat, one ~28GB linux data (reiser or ext2), and 1GB swap. >> >> I need to know if I can trust ReiserFS, as I do believe that I do want >> ReiserFS. > >Which is a good point - can ext2 handle more than 4gig partitions ? I have >some vague ideas that it doesn't Very vague indeed. ;o) /dev/md1 on /mnt/md1 type ext2 (rw,nosuid) $ df /dev/md1 Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/md1 210042576 197033208 2339736 99% /mnt/md1 That is mission critical 210Gb ext2 over software RAID. >(and that it does not handle files more than 2gig long). pts/0 mharris@devel:~$ ls -o bigfile.dat -rw-rw---- 1 mharris 6634951680 Jul 16 00:37 bigfile.dat >I am reasonable sure that ReiserFS is better in this >regard though I am not certain about this either. That is a contradition. ;o) "Reasonably sure" and "certain" are pretty close in meaning IMHO. I don't see how you can be uncertain, but reasonably sure... ;o) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike A. Harris - Linux advocate - Open Source advocate Opinions and viewpoints expressed are solely my own. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2001-07-20 1:15 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 29+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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2001-07-14 23:54 Stability of ReiserFS onj Kernel 2.4.x (sp. 2.4.[56]{-ac*} Adam Schrotenboer
2001-07-15 0:01 ` Thomas Zimmerman
2001-07-15 16:00 ` volodya
2001-07-15 16:08 ` Alexander Viro
2001-07-16 0:50 ` volodya
2001-07-16 0:54 ` Ragnar Kjørstad
2001-07-16 0:57 ` Alexander Viro
2001-07-16 1:22 ` volodya
2001-07-16 1:48 ` Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
2001-07-15 16:33 ` Alan Cox
2001-07-15 16:44 ` Hans Reiser
2001-07-15 16:46 ` Alan Cox
2001-07-15 17:54 ` Hans Reiser
2001-07-15 18:17 ` Alan Cox
2001-07-16 13:27 ` Marco Colombo
2001-07-15 17:58 ` Rob Turk
2001-07-15 21:30 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-07-15 22:05 ` Hans Reiser
2001-07-15 22:18 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-07-16 0:22 ` Albert D. Cahalan
2001-07-16 12:49 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-07-17 19:40 ` Rob Landley
2001-07-16 17:19 ` Jussi Laako
2001-07-16 17:53 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-07-16 19:16 ` Hans Reiser
2001-07-16 21:00 ` Jussi Laako
2001-07-16 22:28 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-07-18 0:58 ` Dan Hollis
2001-07-16 4:39 ` Mike A. Harris
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