Basic reiserfs question

Basic reiserfs question

[Mack Stevenson]

I would like to know whether log replays take place whenever the system is 
booted or only after it has been incorrectly shutdown. I occasionaly see 
"Warning, log replay (...)" during the boot-up sequence although the system 
had been correctly shut down, and I would like to know if I should worry.

Thank you

Mack Stevenson

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Re: Basic reiserfs question

[Hans Reiser]

Mack Stevenson wrote:
> 
> I would like to know whether log replays take place whenever the system is
> booted or only after it has been incorrectly shutdown. I occasionaly see
> "Warning, log replay (...)" during the boot-up sequence although the system
> had been correctly shut down, and I would like to know if I should worry.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Mack Stevenson
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
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Are you using redhat?  Do your shutdown scripts unmount the filesystem only if
it is ext2?

Hans

Re: Basic reiserfs question

[Samium Gromoff]

 > I would like to know whether log replays take place whenever the system is
 > booted or only after it has been incorrectly shutdown. I occasionaly see
 > "Warning, log replay (...)" during the boot-up sequence although the system
 > had been correctly shut down, and I would like to know if I should worry.
    Actually you see "Warning" only when it is replaying log on 
  fs mounted readonly. I wander though why you see it only "occasionally"..
    Normally it replays log every time and you shouldnt bother.

cheers, 
  Sam

Re: Basic reiserfs question

[Mack Stevenson]

>Mack Stevenson wrote:
> >
> > I would like to know whether log replays take place whenever the system 
>is
> > booted or only after it has been incorrectly shutdown. I occasionaly see
> > "Warning, log replay (...)" during the boot-up sequence although the 
>system
> > had been correctly shut down, and I would like to know if I should 
>worry.


>From: Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com>
>To: Mack Stevenson <mackstevenson@hotmail.com>
>CC: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
>Subject: Re: Basic reiserfs question
>Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 01:50:59 +0400
>
>
>Are you using redhat?  Do your shutdown scripts unmount the filesystem only 
>if
>it is ext2?

I am using slackware (8.0), and the shutdown script on my system uses:

# Turn off swap, then unmount local file systems.
echo "Turning off swap."
swapoff -a
echo "Unmounting local file systems."
# Don't remount UMSDOS root volumes:
if [ ! "`mount | head -1 | cut -d ' ' -f 5`" = "umsdos" ]; then
  umount -a -r -t nonfs
  echo "Remounting root filesystem read-only."
  mount -n -o remount,ro /
else
  umount -a -r -t nonfs,noumsdos,nosmbfs
fi

# This never hurts:
sync

---

I guess that's not the probem, then... Actually, whenever I shutdown I never 
see any messages about the unmounting (or the mounting in readonly mode) 
failing, which only adds to my confusion.


>From: Samium Gromoff <_deepfire@mail.ru>
>To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
>CC: mackstevenson@hotmail.com
>Subject: Re: Basic reiserfs question
>Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 03:35:49 +0000 (UTC)
>
>Actually you see "Warning" only when it is replaying log on
>fs mounted readonly.

Yes, that's the warning I see.


>I wander though why you see it only "occasionally"..
>Normally it replays log every time and you shouldnt bother.

Does it? I know next to nothing about these issues, but I thought that I had 
read somewhere that log replays only occurred after a system crashed and 
couldn't be shutdown properly.

Thank you both,

Mack S.




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Re: Basic reiserfs question

[Hans Reiser]

It seems that we should put something in journal replay that says:

"Warning: replaying a non-empty journal, this means that either your system
crashed, or its shutdown scripts need fixing (a common distro failing at the
moment), or you pushed the power button.  Don't use the hardware power button to
turn your computer off before telling the operating system software to halt
(there exists a 'halt' command you can use), the risk in doing so is that the
files you or your software were writing to at the time you pushed the button can
have garbage added to them."

Chris, do you agree?  Edward, please make this change and create a patch.

Of course, now that the distros have turned off all those annoying messages from
the kernel, most users will never see this, sigh.  I think it is a real problem
that the distros have turned off the messages at boot time....

Hans


Mack Stevenson wrote:
> 
> >Mack Stevenson wrote:
> > >
> > > I would like to know whether log replays take place whenever the system
> >is
> > > booted or only after it has been incorrectly shutdown. I occasionaly see
> > > "Warning, log replay (...)" during the boot-up sequence although the
> >system
> > > had been correctly shut down, and I would like to know if I should
> >worry.
> 
> >From: Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com>
> >To: Mack Stevenson <mackstevenson@hotmail.com>
> >CC: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> >Subject: Re: Basic reiserfs question
> >Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 01:50:59 +0400
> >
> >
> >Are you using redhat?  Do your shutdown scripts unmount the filesystem only
> >if
> >it is ext2?
> 
> I am using slackware (8.0), and the shutdown script on my system uses:
> 
> # Turn off swap, then unmount local file systems.
> echo "Turning off swap."
> swapoff -a
> echo "Unmounting local file systems."
> # Don't remount UMSDOS root volumes:
> if [ ! "`mount | head -1 | cut -d ' ' -f 5`" = "umsdos" ]; then
>   umount -a -r -t nonfs
>   echo "Remounting root filesystem read-only."
>   mount -n -o remount,ro /
> else
>   umount -a -r -t nonfs,noumsdos,nosmbfs
> fi
> 
> # This never hurts:
> sync
> 
> ---
> 
> I guess that's not the probem, then... Actually, whenever I shutdown I never
> see any messages about the unmounting (or the mounting in readonly mode)
> failing, which only adds to my confusion.
> 
> >From: Samium Gromoff <_deepfire@mail.ru>
> >To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> >CC: mackstevenson@hotmail.com
> >Subject: Re: Basic reiserfs question
> >Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 03:35:49 +0000 (UTC)
> >
> >Actually you see "Warning" only when it is replaying log on
> >fs mounted readonly.
> 
> Yes, that's the warning I see.
> 
> >I wander though why you see it only "occasionally"..
> >Normally it replays log every time and you shouldnt bother.
> 
> Does it? I know next to nothing about these issues, but I thought that I had
> read somewhere that log replays only occurred after a system crashed and
> couldn't be shutdown properly.
> 
> Thank you both,
> 
> Mack S.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Re: Basic reiserfs question

[Bob McElrath]

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Hans Reiser [reiser@namesys.com] wrote:
> Of course, now that the distros have turned off all those annoying messages from
> the kernel, most users will never see this, sigh.  I think it is a real problem
> that the distros have turned off the messages at boot time....

Heh, there are *so* many of them and they scroll by *so* fast.  I'm not
surprised they turned them off.  They should just put a message at the
very end "run the 'dmesg' command to read the preceeding boot messages.

Why is my cat pawing the desk next to my coffee like he's trying to
cover my coffee with cat litter?!?!?!  It's good coffee!!!

Cheers,
-- Bob

Bob McElrath (rsmcelrath@students.wisc.edu) 
Univ. of Wisconsin at Madison, Department of Physics

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Re: Basic reiserfs question

[Chris Mason]

On Thursday, September 06, 2001 04:56:59 PM +0400 Hans Reiser
<reiser@namesys.com> wrote:

> It seems that we should put something in journal replay that says:
> 
> "Warning: replaying a non-empty journal, this means that either your
> system crashed, or its shutdown scripts need fixing (a common distro
> failing at the moment), or you pushed the power button.  Don't use the
> hardware power button to turn your computer off before telling the
> operating system software to halt (there exists a 'halt' command you can
> use), the risk in doing so is that the files you or your software were
> writing to at the time you pushed the button can have garbage added to
> them."
> 
> Chris, do you agree?  Edward, please make this change and create a patch.

Sorry, I'm a bit slow this week, I caught a cold at linux world (apparently
the users are contagious).

Anyway, the text above is great for a man page.  kernel messages don't take
more than one line ;-)

-chris

Re[2]: Basic reiserfs question

[Nerijus Baliunas]

On Thu, 06 Sep 2001 16:56:59 +0400 Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com> wrote:

HR> It seems that we should put something in journal replay that says:
HR> 
HR> "Warning: replaying a non-empty journal, this means that either your system
HR> crashed, or its shutdown scripts need fixing (a common distro failing at the
HR> moment)

If you think it's RedHat, you probably are wrong - I use RH with reiserfs
a long time (more than a year - 6.2, now 7.1), and never got a message about
replaying journal if system was shut down correctly.

Regards,
Nerijus

Re: Basic reiserfs question

[Hans Reiser]

Nerijus Baliunas wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2001 16:56:59 +0400 Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com> wrote:
> 
> HR> It seems that we should put something in journal replay that says:
> HR>
> HR> "Warning: replaying a non-empty journal, this means that either your system
> HR> crashed, or its shutdown scripts need fixing (a common distro failing at the
> HR> moment)
> 
> If you think it's RedHat, you probably are wrong - I use RH with reiserfs
> a long time (more than a year - 6.2, now 7.1), and never got a message about
> replaying journal if system was shut down correctly.
> 
> Regards,
> Nerijus
> 
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> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

I only have secondhand reports from users who patch RedHat boot scripts as
described at the end of www.namesys.com/faq.html, so your statement leaves me
puzzled as to whether the secondhand reports were from persons who didn't
understand the boot scripts.  Comments are welcome.

Hans

Re: Basic reiserfs question

[Nerijus Baliunas]

On Fri, 07 Sep 2001 11:50:06 +0400 Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com> wrote:

HR> I only have secondhand reports from users who patch RedHat boot scripts as
HR> described at the end of www.namesys.com/faq.html, so your statement leaves me
HR> puzzled as to whether the secondhand reports were from persons who didn't
HR> understand the boot scripts.  Comments are welcome.

Hello,

I took time to read FAQ, and here are few comments.

1 - I understand you don't like RedHat, but instead of ranting, you could
just say that gcc-2.96 from RH updates or RH 7.1 is OK (Alan Cox even
recommends it for compiling recent 2.4 kernels).

16 - also "df -i" shows that there are no used inodes on reiserfs partitions.

36 - Can I use /sbin/badblocks -b <reiserfs-block-size> on existing
reiserfs partition?

39 - a link to "I'm not using RedHat's special release of a buggy compiler"
(http://www.namesys.com/gcc-2.96) is not found.

40 - spelling error "ResierFS".

41 - there is nothing about how to solve it.

Regards,
Nerijus

Re: Basic reiserfs question

[Mack Stevenson]

Sorry, but there's something still troubling me: is getting the following 
lines written to syslog normal upon booting after a "clean" shutdown or an 
indicator of a "dirty" shutdown?

>From syslog, referring to the last time I booted my machine:

reiserfs: checking transaction log (device 03:02) ...
Warning, log replay starting on readonly filesystem
reiserfs: replayed 16 transactions in 4 seconds
using r5 hash to sort names
ReiserFS version 3.6.25
VFS: Mounted root (reiserfs filesystem) readonly.

Some times the second and third lines are present, some times they aren't...

Should I worry if I don't get such messages whenever I boot? Or should I 
worry if I get those messages after (apparently) clean shutdown procedures?

Or shouldn't I worry at all? ;-)

- Mack


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Re: Basic reiserfs question

[Andreas Dilger]

On Sep 07, 2001  13:38 +0200, Mack Stevenson wrote:
> Sorry, but there's something still troubling me: is getting the following 
> lines written to syslog normal upon booting after a "clean" shutdown or an 
> indicator of a "dirty" shutdown?
> 
> >From syslog, referring to the last time I booted my machine:
> 
> reiserfs: checking transaction log (device 03:02) ...
> Warning, log replay starting on readonly filesystem
> reiserfs: replayed 16 transactions in 4 seconds
> using r5 hash to sort names
> ReiserFS version 3.6.25
> VFS: Mounted root (reiserfs filesystem) readonly.

This clearly means that it is a "dirty" shutdown, because it is replaying
the journal log.  

> Should I worry if I don't get such messages whenever I boot? Or should I 
> worry if I get those messages after (apparently) clean shutdown procedures?

It would be troublesome if you got the messages after a clean shutdown.
This might mean that reiserfs is not syncing some journal buffers to disk
when the root filesystem is remounted read-only.  Alternately, it may mean
that it is finding bogus transactions to replay in the journal (I don't
know how reiserfs determines whether the journal is clean or dirty).

It may also mean that your disk claims to have written data to disk, but
then only puts it in cache and you power off before in actually writes it.
Do you have APM/ACPI power off after shutdown?

Cheers, Andreas
-- 
Andreas Dilger  \ "If a man ate a pound of pasta and a pound of antipasto,
                 \  would they cancel out, leaving him still hungry?"
http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/               -- Dogbert

Re: Basic reiserfs question

[Mack Stevenson]

Andreas,

>From: Andreas Dilger <adilger@turbolabs.com>
>To: Mack Stevenson <mackstevenson@hotmail.com>
>CC: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, reiser@namesys.com,   
>nerijus@users.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: Basic reiserfs question
>Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 11:04:26 -0600
>
>On Sep 07, 2001  13:38 +0200, Mack Stevenson wrote:
> > >From syslog, referring to the last time I booted my machine:
> >
> > reiserfs: checking transaction log (device 03:02) ...
> > Warning, log replay starting on readonly filesystem
> > reiserfs: replayed 16 transactions in 4 seconds
> > using r5 hash to sort names
> > ReiserFS version 3.6.25
> > VFS: Mounted root (reiserfs filesystem) readonly.
>
>This clearly means that it is a "dirty" shutdown, because it is replaying
>the journal log.

Right.

> > Should I worry if I don't get such messages whenever I boot? Or should I
> > worry if I get those messages after (apparently) clean shutdown 
>procedures?
>
>It would be troublesome if you got the messages after a clean shutdown.

That's what happening (kernel 2.4.8), about 1 out of 5 times .

>This might mean that reiserfs is not syncing some journal buffers to disk
>when the root filesystem is remounted read-only.  Alternately, it may mean
>that it is finding bogus transactions to replay in the journal (I don't
>know how reiserfs determines whether the journal is clean or dirty).
>
>It may also mean that your disk claims to have written data to disk, but
>then only puts it in cache and you power off before in actually writes it.
>Do you have APM/ACPI power off after shutdown?

Yes, I run APM. Should I try disabling APM power off and manually doing so 
instead?

Thank you,

Mack


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