Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Dieter Nützel]

Has anybody some numbers, yet?

Thanks,
	Dieter

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Timur Tabi]

Dieter Nützel wrote:

> Has anybody some numbers, yet?


I was under the impression that only the Athlon MP CPUs could be used in SMP 
systems, and the fastest one is still 1.2GHz.

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Dan Hollis]

On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, Timur Tabi wrote:
> Dieter Nützel wrote:
> > Has anybody some numbers, yet?
> I was under the impression that only the Athlon MP CPUs could be used in SMP
> systems, and the fastest one is still 1.2GHz.

Your impression is wrong, all socketed athlons can SMP, and the new
palomino core durons can too (not sure about older durons).

-Dan (Happily running dual >>NON-MP<< athlons on a Tyan S2460)
-- 
[-] Omae no subete no kichi wa ore no mono da. [-]

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Dr. Kelsey Hudson]

On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, Dan Hollis wrote:

> Your impression is wrong, all socketed athlons can SMP, and the new
> palomino core durons can too (not sure about older durons).

as also is yours; all athlons and durons, including the slot versions of
these processors, are SMP compatible. however, amd only officially
supports running smp combinations with the athlon mp chips.

IIRC, all AMD chips (P6x86 and up) are SMP compatible, however the older
chips (P6x86) are OpenAPIC standard versus the current APIC standard (i
forget the name).

hope this helps

 Kelsey Hudson                                           khudson@ctica.com
 Software Engineer
 Compendium Technologies, Inc                               (619) 725-0771
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Dan Hollis]

On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Dr. Kelsey Hudson wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, Dan Hollis wrote:
> > Your impression is wrong, all socketed athlons can SMP, and the new
> > palomino core durons can too (not sure about older durons).
> as also is yours; all athlons and durons, including the slot versions of
> these processors, are SMP compatible. however, amd only officially
> supports running smp combinations with the athlon mp chips.

BTW current rumor has it that Athlon XP's are supposed to be smp-disabled.
Apparently they have not changed the masks yet as a friend installed dual
Athlon 1800+ XP's in his S2460 this weekend...

So you have been warned...

-Dan
-- 
[-] Omae no subete no kichi wa ore no mono da. [-]

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Robert Love]

On Tue, 2001-10-09 at 17:52, Timur Tabi wrote:
> Dieter Nützel wrote:
> 
> > Has anybody some numbers, yet?
> 
> I was under the impression that only the Athlon MP CPUs could be used in SMP 
> systems, and the fastest one is still 1.2GHz.

It seems that any Athlon (even Durons) work fine in SMP configurations. 
(Although I don't recommend this for stability).

Most people using dual Athlons are probably using the higher speed but
cheaper Athlon parts with no problem.

I have heard conflicting reports of what is actually different about the
MP vs non-MP parts, with points ranging from "the MP parts are just
certified" to that MP actually has some different internals.  Whatever
the case, I suppose the difference isn't earth-shattering and mostly
marketing (ala Intel).

	Robert Love

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[David Lang]

actually (having had my hands on 1.2GHz t-bird and MP boxes) the MP does
appear to be noticably faster per clock then the t-bird version. the new
XP is supposed to be the same core as the MP (just different marketing) as
I understand things.

David Lang





 On 9 Oct 2001, Robert Love
wrote:

> Date: 09 Oct 2001 18:12:26 -0400
> From: Robert Love <rml@tech9.net>
> To: Timur Tabi <ttabi@interactivesi.com>
> Cc: Linux Kernel List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
> Subject: Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?
>
> On Tue, 2001-10-09 at 17:52, Timur Tabi wrote:
> > Dieter Nützel wrote:
> >
> > > Has anybody some numbers, yet?
> >
> > I was under the impression that only the Athlon MP CPUs could be used in SMP
> > systems, and the fastest one is still 1.2GHz.
>
> It seems that any Athlon (even Durons) work fine in SMP configurations.
> (Although I don't recommend this for stability).
>
> Most people using dual Athlons are probably using the higher speed but
> cheaper Athlon parts with no problem.
>
> I have heard conflicting reports of what is actually different about the
> MP vs non-MP parts, with points ranging from "the MP parts are just
> certified" to that MP actually has some different internals.  Whatever
> the case, I suppose the difference isn't earth-shattering and mostly
> marketing (ala Intel).
>
> 	Robert Love
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Dan Hollis]

On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, David Lang wrote:
> actually (having had my hands on 1.2GHz t-bird and MP boxes) the MP does
> appear to be noticably faster per clock then the t-bird version. the new
> XP is supposed to be the same core as the MP (just different marketing) as
> I understand things.

It's palomino core. It means, new SSE instructions, bigger TLB cache,
prefetch, and 20% power reduction. All this for maybe 5%-15% performance
increase. And a not so nice increase in price tag :-o

Dual 1.2 non-MP is fine for me thanks... plenty fast and cheap.

-Dan
-- 
[-] Omae no subete no kichi wa ore no mono da. [-]

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Robert Love]

On Tue, 2001-10-09 at 18:30, Dan Hollis wrote:
> It's palomino core. It means, new SSE instructions, bigger TLB cache,
> prefetch, and 20% power reduction. All this for maybe 5%-15% performance
> increase. And a not so nice increase in price tag :-o

Oh, you are right.

I meant MP vs XP part, sorry.  From what I gather, MP is no different
from XP, although perhaps "certified for SMP" -- despite costing more
per MHz.

> Dual 1.2 non-MP is fine for me thanks... plenty fast and cheap.

Completely Agreed.  I am thinking of getting a dual AMD system for doing
more kernel work (tackle AMD and SMP).  My main machine is a P3 now.

	Robert Love

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[bill davidsen]

In article <1002667385.1673.129.camel@phantasy> rml@tech9.net wrote:

>Completely Agreed.  I am thinking of getting a dual AMD system for doing
>more kernel work (tackle AMD and SMP).  My main machine is a P3 now.

The issue right now may be RAM cost. I just bought 512MB PC133 for
$140/GB, while "registered PC2100" memory is about $900 from the same
source. I think that's what the Tiger wants, isn't it?

-- 
bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
 "If I were a diplomat, in the best case I'd go hungry.  In the worst
  case, people would die."
		-- Robert Lipe

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[nick]

Erm, ???  Try www.crucial.com.  It's not quite as cheap as pc133, but it's
real close.  Where are you buying?
	Nick

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, bill davidsen wrote:

> In article <1002667385.1673.129.camel@phantasy> rml@tech9.net wrote:
> 
> >Completely Agreed.  I am thinking of getting a dual AMD system for doing
> >more kernel work (tackle AMD and SMP).  My main machine is a P3 now.
> 
> The issue right now may be RAM cost. I just bought 512MB PC133 for
> $140/GB, while "registered PC2100" memory is about $900 from the same
> source. I think that's what the Tiger wants, isn't it?
> 
> -- 
> bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
>  "If I were a diplomat, in the best case I'd go hungry.  In the worst
>   case, people would die."
> 		-- Robert Lipe
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Bill Davidsen]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001 nick@snowman.net wrote:

> Erm, ???  Try www.crucial.com.  It's not quite as cheap as pc133, but it's
> real close.  Where are you buying?

TC computers. They have the cheap memory, but the motherboard specs ask
for "registered." I'll take a look at crucial with that in mind.

-- 
bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
  CTO, TMR Associates, Inc
Doing interesting things with little computers since 1979.

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Dan Hollis]

On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Bill Davidsen wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2001 nick@snowman.net wrote:
> > Erm, ???  Try www.crucial.com.  It's not quite as cheap as pc133, but it's
> > real close.  Where are you buying?
> TC computers. They have the cheap memory, but the motherboard specs ask
> for "registered." I'll take a look at crucial with that in mind.

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?model=S2460+Tiger+MP&x=16&y=16

Registered ECC PC2100, got 2 sticks of this in my Tiger MP and works
perfectly. Dead cheap too

-Dan
-- 
[-] Omae no subete no kichi wa ore no mono da. [-]

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Jeffrey W. Baker]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, bill davidsen wrote:

> In article <1002667385.1673.129.camel@phantasy> rml@tech9.net wrote:
>
> >Completely Agreed.  I am thinking of getting a dual AMD system for doing
> >more kernel work (tackle AMD and SMP).  My main machine is a P3 now.
>
> The issue right now may be RAM cost. I just bought 512MB PC133 for
> $140/GB, while "registered PC2100" memory is about $900 from the same
> source. I think that's what the Tiger wants, isn't it?

Registered ECC PC2100 DIMMs are $40 for 256MB at crucial.com.  The local
computer shop has $129 for random taiwanese 512MB DIMM and $193 for
Corsair brand of same.

I dunno where your $900/GB figure comes from.

-jwb

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Bill Davidsen]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Jeffrey W. Baker wrote:

> Registered ECC PC2100 DIMMs are $40 for 256MB at crucial.com.  The local
> computer shop has $129 for random taiwanese 512MB DIMM and $193 for
> Corsair brand of same.
> 
> I dunno where your $900/GB figure comes from.

512MB registered at $450ea. The 256MB are about the cost you mention, but
allow only a single GB with no room for expansion. I tried all weekend to
get into crutial.com and kept getting "too busy to accept you" messages,
so it may be great but not currently useful. Yes I tried from several
site, and at 2:10am Morning when I was fixing a server...

-- 
bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
  CTO, TMR Associates, Inc
Doing interesting things with little computers since 1979.

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Joel Jaeggli]

On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Bill Davidsen wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Jeffrey W. Baker wrote:
>
> > Registered ECC PC2100 DIMMs are $40 for 256MB at crucial.com.  The local
> > computer shop has $129 for random taiwanese 512MB DIMM and $193 for
> > Corsair brand of same.
> >
> > I dunno where your $900/GB figure comes from.
>
> 512MB registered at $450ea. The 256MB are about the cost you mention, but
> allow only a single GB with no room for expansion. I tried all weekend to
> get into crutial.com and kept getting "too busy to accept you" messages,
> so it may be great but not currently useful. Yes I tried from several
> site, and at 2:10am Morning when I was fixing a server...

go to www.insight.com... search on 512MB registered ecc ddr

http://www.insight.com/web/apps/productpresentation/index.php?product_id=VAR512RECD

or go to www.kingston.com

select search by part number

search on:


KVR266X72RC25/512

http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/kepler/PartsInfo_Bod.asp?ktcpartno=KVR266X72RC25/512

you can also get the 1GB part for $434

KVR266X72RC25/1024

joelja

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Jaeggli				       joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu
Academic User Services			     consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu
     PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of
arms.  Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of
the right, 1843.

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Timur Tabi]

Bill Davidsen wrote:

> 512MB registered at $450ea. The 256MB are about the cost you mention, but
> allow only a single GB with no room for expansion. I tried all weekend to
> get into crutial.com and kept getting "too busy to accept you" messages,
> so it may be great but not currently useful. Yes I tried from several
> site, and at 2:10am Morning when I was fixing a server...
> 
> 

1stchoicememory.com offers PC2100 DIMMs that are guaranteed compatible with 
whatever system you specify.  Their 512MB DIMM is only $105.  They'll pay for 
return shipping if it doesn't work.  I ordered one, so I'll find out next week 
whether it will work.

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Hans-Peter Jansen]

On Tuesday, 16. October 2001 00:07, Timur Tabi wrote:
> Bill Davidsen wrote:
> > 512MB registered at $450ea. The 256MB are about the cost you mention, but

Ehhh? see below..

> > allow only a single GB with no room for expansion. I tried all weekend to
> > get into crutial.com and kept getting "too busy to accept you" messages,
> > so it may be great but not currently useful. Yes I tried from several
> > site, and at 2:10am Morning when I was fixing a server...
>
> 1stchoicememory.com offers PC2100 DIMMs that are guaranteed compatible with
> whatever system you specify.  Their 512MB DIMM is only $105.  They'll pay
> for return shipping if it doesn't work.  I ordered one, so I'll find out
> next week whether it will work.

Registered? ECC? Timing 2, 2.5, 3?

512 MB ECC reg. PC2100 CL2 org. INF ca. $100 exc. vat here 

Hopefully tomorrow will arrive a thunder K7/SCSI, an evercase ECS5000 with 
NMB PS, 2 * XP1700+ (I'm stingy), and 4 nice dimms here. 
First time, that I'm getting a bit nervous about stuff since decades...

Cheers,
Hans-Peter

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[John Jasen]

On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Bill Davidsen wrote:

> 512MB registered at $450ea. The 256MB are about the cost you mention, but
> allow only a single GB with no room for expansion. I tried all weekend to
> get into crutial.com and kept getting "too busy to accept you" messages,
> so it may be great but not currently useful. Yes I tried from several
> site, and at 2:10am Morning when I was fixing a server...

wierd. Never got a server busy from crucial. Anyway, I see a couple of
hits for Corsair registered ECC at ~$200/stick on pricewatch.com, as
crucial doesn't list PC2100 ECC registered in 512MB sticks.


--
-- John E. Jasen (jjasen1@umbc.edu)
-- In theory, theory and practise are the same. In practise, they aren't.

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Wilson]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Davidsen" <davidsen@tmr.com>
To: "Jeffrey W. Baker" <jwbaker@acm.org>
Cc: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?


> On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Jeffrey W. Baker wrote:
>
> > Registered ECC PC2100 DIMMs are $40 for 256MB at crucial.com.  The local
> > computer shop has $129 for random taiwanese 512MB DIMM and $193 for
> > Corsair brand of same.
> >
> > I dunno where your $900/GB figure comes from.
>
> 512MB registered at $450ea. The 256MB are about the cost you mention, but
> allow only a single GB with no room for expansion. I tried all weekend to
> get into crutial.com and kept getting "too busy to accept you" messages,
> so it may be great but not currently useful. Yes I tried from several
> site, and at 2:10am Morning when I was fixing a server...
>

I see 512MB PC2100 Registered DIMMs for $105 on Pricewatch.
Am I missing something here?

They accused us of suppressing freedom of expression.
This was a lie and we could not let them publish it.
-- Nelba Blandon, Nicaraguan Interior Ministry Director of Censorship

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Bill Davidsen]

On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Wilson wrote:


> I see 512MB PC2100 Registered DIMMs for $105 on Pricewatch.
> Am I missing something here?

Yes. The price of PC2100 is dropping like a rock everywhere, and the
source I quoted at $50 is now just over $100. We're shooting at an
off-topic moving target ;-)

-- 
bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
  CTO, TMR Associates, Inc
Doing interesting things with little computers since 1979.

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[John J Tobin]

On Thu, 2001-10-11 at 14:14, bill davidsen wrote:
> In article <1002667385.1673.129.camel@phantasy> rml@tech9.net wrote:
> 
> >Completely Agreed.  I am thinking of getting a dual AMD system for doing
> >more kernel work (tackle AMD and SMP).  My main machine is a P3 now.
> 
> The issue right now may be RAM cost. I just bought 512MB PC133 for
> $140/GB, while "registered PC2100" memory is about $900 from the same
> source. I think that's what the Tiger wants, isn't it?
> 
> -- 
> bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>

The Tyan Tiger and Thunder both take Registered DDR DIMMs. Though
anandtech got it running using only one pair of unregistered, other
combinations of unregistered failed to boot. There are also no SMP
athlon chipsets that use PC133.


-- 
John Tobin
ogre@sirinet.net; AOL IM: ogre7929
http://ogre.rocky-road.net
http://ogre.rocky-road.net/cdr.shtml

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Joel Jaeggli]

On 11 Oct 2001, John J Tobin wrote:

> On Thu, 2001-10-11 at 14:14, bill davidsen wrote:
> > In article <1002667385.1673.129.camel@phantasy> rml@tech9.net wrote:
> >
> > >Completely Agreed.  I am thinking of getting a dual AMD system for doing
> > >more kernel work (tackle AMD and SMP).  My main machine is a P3 now.
> >
> > The issue right now may be RAM cost. I just bought 512MB PC133 for
> > $140/GB, while "registered PC2100" memory is about $900 from the same
> > source. I think that's what the Tiger wants, isn't it?

registered ecc dimms from crucial and kingston valueram are barely more
than non-registered parts... I see the 512MB kingston registered ecc ddram
part for $220 from a large mailorder house. the same spec part from
corsair is still $489 from the same vendor. given the headaches that
result from having to debug problems/faulty dimms on a machine with 2GB of
ram and the non-trivial engineering that went into getting 4 reasonably
spaced ddr dimm sockets on the mainboard. I expect registered ecc dimms
will be well worth it, if only so that you can rule out the memory as the
culprit if you have certain kinds of issues...

joelja


> > --
> > bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
>
> The Tyan Tiger and Thunder both take Registered DDR DIMMs. Though
> anandtech got it running using only one pair of unregistered, other
> combinations of unregistered failed to boot. There are also no SMP
> athlon chipsets that use PC133.
>
>
>

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Jaeggli				       joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu
Academic User Services			     consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu
     PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of
arms.  Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of
the right, 1843.

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Jeff Nguyen]

512MB modules are built using either 128-Mbit DRAM
or 256-Mbit DRAM. The former has twice the number
of DRAM IC over the latter. Due to the higher density
DRAM, there is a significant increase in cost. Since
Corsair uses 256Mbit DRAM, their 512MB modules
cost a lot more.

When you see a much cheaper 512Mb modules, that is
because it is built using 128Mbit DRAM.

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Jaeggli" <joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu>
To: "John J Tobin" <ogre@sirinet.net>
Cc: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?


> On 11 Oct 2001, John J Tobin wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 2001-10-11 at 14:14, bill davidsen wrote:
> > > In article <1002667385.1673.129.camel@phantasy> rml@tech9.net wrote:
> > >
> > > >Completely Agreed.  I am thinking of getting a dual AMD system for
doing
> > > >more kernel work (tackle AMD and SMP).  My main machine is a P3 now.
> > >
> > > The issue right now may be RAM cost. I just bought 512MB PC133 for
> > > $140/GB, while "registered PC2100" memory is about $900 from the same
> > > source. I think that's what the Tiger wants, isn't it?
>
> registered ecc dimms from crucial and kingston valueram are barely more
> than non-registered parts... I see the 512MB kingston registered ecc ddram
> part for $220 from a large mailorder house. the same spec part from
> corsair is still $489 from the same vendor. given the headaches that
> result from having to debug problems/faulty dimms on a machine with 2GB of
> ram and the non-trivial engineering that went into getting 4 reasonably
> spaced ddr dimm sockets on the mainboard. I expect registered ecc dimms
> will be well worth it, if only so that you can rule out the memory as the
> culprit if you have certain kinds of issues...
>
> joelja
>
>
> > > --
> > > bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
> >
> > The Tyan Tiger and Thunder both take Registered DDR DIMMs. Though
> > anandtech got it running using only one pair of unregistered, other
> > combinations of unregistered failed to boot. There are also no SMP
> > athlon chipsets that use PC133.
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joel Jaeggli        joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu
> Academic User Services      consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu
>      PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of
> arms.  Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of
> the right, 1843.
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Jelle Foks]

Joel Jaeggli wrote:

>On 11 Oct 2001, John J Tobin wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 2001-10-11 at 14:14, bill davidsen wrote:
>>
>>>In article <1002667385.1673.129.camel@phantasy> rml@tech9.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>Completely Agreed.  I am thinking of getting a dual AMD system for doing
>>>>more kernel work (tackle AMD and SMP).  My main machine is a P3 now.
>>>>
>>>The issue right now may be RAM cost. I just bought 512MB PC133 for
>>>$140/GB, while "registered PC2100" memory is about $900 from the same
>>>source. I think that's what the Tiger wants, isn't it?
>>>
>
>registered ecc dimms from crucial and kingston valueram are barely more
>than non-registered parts... I see the 512MB kingston registered ecc ddram
>part for $220 from a large mailorder house. the same spec part from
>corsair is still $489 from the same vendor. given the headaches that
>result from having to debug problems/faulty dimms on a machine with 2GB of
>ram and the non-trivial engineering that went into getting 4 reasonably
>spaced ddr dimm sockets on the mainboard. I expect registered ecc dimms
>will be well worth it, if only so that you can rule out the memory as the
>culprit if you have certain kinds of issues...
>

I have very good experience by testing with a memtest boot floppy (see 
www.memtest86.com), and running overnight or a whole week-end. All new 
configurations I build get a long memtest before deployment.

Jelle.

>
>
>joelja
>
>
>>>--
>>>bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
>>>
>>The Tyan Tiger and Thunder both take Registered DDR DIMMs. Though
>>anandtech got it running using only one pair of unregistered, other
>>combinations of unregistered failed to boot. There are also no SMP
>>athlon chipsets that use PC133.
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Charles Cazabon]

Robert Love <rml@tech9.net> wrote:
> 
> It seems that any Athlon (even Durons) work fine in SMP configurations. 

They work, but not "fine".  There are performance issues with
Thunderbird-core Athlons in SMP configurations that may slow them down
somewhat.

> I have heard conflicting reports of what is actually different about the
> MP vs non-MP parts, with points ranging from "the MP parts are just
> certified" to that MP actually has some different internals.  Whatever
> the case, I suppose the difference isn't earth-shattering and mostly
> marketing (ala Intel).

Non-MP Athlons to now have all been Thunderbird (or earlier) cores.  MP
Athlons are Palomino cores.  The new Athlon XP is a Palomino core.  The
Palomino has specific fixes for MP operation (no more slowdowns due to
SMP), and various performance improvements.

If you don't want to fork out the extra cash for the "official" MP
Athlons, at least buy the XP variant.

Charles
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon                            <linux@discworld.dyndns.org>
GPL'ed software available at:  http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Dan Hollis]

On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> If you don't want to fork out the extra cash for the "official" MP
> Athlons, at least buy the XP variant.

The MP athlons are 50% more expensive than non-MP, but they dont have 50%
more performance.

Pretty simple purchase decision for me at least...

-Dan
-- 
[-] Omae no subete no kichi wa ore no mono da. [-]

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[David Lang]

you can always get a better price/performance ratio if you back off to a
the next-to-the-best generation of equipment. if you need the performance
though you can't do it with the older equipment.

David Lang

 On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, Dan
Hollis wrote:

> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 15:24:51 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dan Hollis <goemon@anime.net>
> To: Charles Cazabon <linux-kernel@discworld.dyndns.org>
> Cc: Linux Kernel List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
> Subject: Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?
>
> On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> > If you don't want to fork out the extra cash for the "official" MP
> > Athlons, at least buy the XP variant.
>
> The MP athlons are 50% more expensive than non-MP, but they dont have 50%
> more performance.
>
> Pretty simple purchase decision for me at least...
>
> -Dan
> --
> [-] Omae no subete no kichi wa ore no mono da. [-]
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Dan Hollis]

On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, David Lang wrote:
> you can always get a better price/performance ratio if you back off to a
> the next-to-the-best generation of equipment. if you need the performance
> though you can't do it with the older equipment.

Well yes, the 1.2 non-mp tbird is the sweet spot for price/performance at
the moment. Spend 50% - 100% more and you can get 20% better performance.

I didnt need balls-to-the-wall performance -- bleeding eyeballs was fast
enough for me...

-Dan
-- 
[-] Omae no subete no kichi wa ore no mono da. [-]

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[German Gomez Garcia]

On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, Charles Cazabon wrote:

> Robert Love <rml@tech9.net> wrote:
> >
> > It seems that any Athlon (even Durons) work fine in SMP configurations.
>
> They work, but not "fine".  There are performance issues with
> Thunderbird-core Athlons in SMP configurations that may slow them down
> somewhat.

	What kind of performance slow down? I have two Thunderbird 1.4Ghz
on an Tyan Tiger MP and they are quite fast (that is what I call
totally-subjective-and-no-value-at-all benchmark :-)

> > I have heard conflicting reports of what is actually different about the
> > MP vs non-MP parts, with points ranging from "the MP parts are just
> > certified" to that MP actually has some different internals.  Whatever
> > the case, I suppose the difference isn't earth-shattering and mostly
> > marketing (ala Intel).

	I've hear about some problems with the ALU Integer operation,
mainly reported by SiSoft Sandra SMP tests, (look at the Tyan forum
in www.amdmb.com), but at the end it seems that both the Thunderbird and
the Palomino have the same problem.

	I would like to benchmark the ALU Integer operation in SMP under
linux, maybe after all the low scores are due to a low quality OS :-)
Do you know about any "standard" benchmark that run in linux and stress
SMP ALU Integer operation?

> Non-MP Athlons to now have all been Thunderbird (or earlier) cores.  MP
> Athlons are Palomino cores.  The new Athlon XP is a Palomino core.  The
> Palomino has specific fixes for MP operation (no more slowdowns due to
> SMP), and various performance improvements.

	I bought the Thunderbird because they cost half the money than
the MP, and mainly because of availability (uhmm, not sure about this
word), here in Spain few people knows about MP Athlon, and even fewer
could get their hands on them.

	Regards,

	- german


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
German Gomez Garcia          | Send email with "SEND GPG KEY" as subject
<german@piraos.com>          | to receive my GnuPG public key.

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Robert Love]

On Tue, 2001-10-09 at 18:17, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> They work, but not "fine".  There are performance issues with
> Thunderbird-core Athlons in SMP configurations that may slow them down
> somewhat.

Are you sure it is related to SMP and not the fact the Palomino core is
faster in general?

I'm not saying non-Palomino-core Athlons don't have SMP issues.  I'm
sure something is different -- a lot of errata is fixed (and added) in
between core revisions.  I'm just not so sure a measurable difference is
easily shown...especially when there are other reasons for a performance
increase in the core itself.

Anyhow, I don't want to OT...

	Robert Love

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Charles Cazabon]

Robert Love <rml@tech9.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 2001-10-09 at 18:17, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> > They work, but not "fine".  There are performance issues with
> > Thunderbird-core Athlons in SMP configurations that may slow them down
> > somewhat.
> 
> Are you sure it is related to SMP and not the fact the Palomino core is
> faster in general?

Yes, it's an architectural problem with the Thunderbird core.  It turns
out that in SMP configurations, the Thunderbird can actually hinder
performance in certain cases (i.e. benchmarks show very little
performance improvement for dual Thunderbirds over single Thunderbird,
while same software scales almost linearly with dual Palominos over
single Palomino).

I don't recall the exact cause, but I think it had something to do with
poor cache interaction -- cache-line ping-pong perhaps?

Charles
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon                            <linux@discworld.dyndns.org>
GPL'ed software available at:  http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Dieter Nützel]

Am Dienstag, 9. Oktober 2001 23:16 schrieb Dieter Nützel:
> Has anybody some numbers, yet?
>
> Thanks,
> 	Dieter

Here comes what I've found so far fro single Athlon XP on Linux.

http://www.linuxhardware.org/features/01/10/09/1514233.shtml

Summary and thanks for your fast replies:

All Athlons/Durons except the first SlotA ones (Athlon I; 0,25 µm; no apic; 
no available boards) support SMP. I know it before from the docs...;-)

But "only" the "latest" Athlon MP/XP (Palomino core) and Duron (Morgan core, 
based on the Palomino core) support it "very" well. This is due to the 
enhanced TLBs and cache redesign.
Only difference between Athlon MP vs XP is that the first is "validate" for 
SMP.

So any dual numbers? I know that Paul G. Allen would upgrade his Tyan Thunder 
K7 dual 1.4 GHz TB Athlon to an dual Athlon XP.

Greetings,
	Dieter

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Dieter Nützel]

Am Mittwoch, 9. Oktober 2001 22:54 schrieb Robert Love:
> On Tue, 2001-10-09 at 18:17, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> > They work, but not "fine".  There are performance issues with
> > Thunderbird-core Athlons in SMP configurations that may slow them down
> > somewhat.
>
> Are you sure it is related to SMP and not the fact the Palomino core is
> faster in general?

Yes and No. ;-)

Robert have a look at the direct comparisons of dual 1.2 GHz Athlon TB and 
1.2 GHz Athlon MP. There are many flowting around. The Palomino core 
enhancements are even at the same chip clock very good for SMP.

http://www.anandtech.com/chipsets/showdoc.html?i=1483&p=1

> I'm not saying non-Palomino-core Athlons don't have SMP issues. 

They don't have issues but they are (much) slower in dual configurations for 
specific test cases.

> I'm sure something is different -- a lot of errata is fixed (and added) in
> between core revisions.  I'm just not so sure a measurable difference is
> easily shown...especially when there are other reasons for a performance
> increase in the core itself.

The differences _are_ easily shown.

So the Athlon XP (Palomino core) _IS_ the way to go...8-)


Regards,
	Dieter

Re: Dual Athlon XP 1800+ on Tyan Thunder K7 or Tiger MP anyone?

[Thomas Esser]

> 512 MB ECC reg. PC2100 CL2 org. INF ca. $100 exc. vat here 
>
> Hopefully tomorrow will arrive a thunder K7/SCSI, an evercase ECS5000 with 
> NMB PS, 2 * XP1700+ (I'm stingy), and 4 nice dimms here. 
> First time, that I'm getting a bit nervous about stuff since decades...

IIRC, the Infineon modules with 512 MB are two-bank modules. The board
only supports six banks, so I fear that you can only use three of your
four modules.

Thomas