Network hardware: "Network Media Detection"

Network hardware: "Network Media Detection"

[Jeff Snyder]

Hi
I was wondering if there was any way in linux to use what redmond calls 
"Network Media Detection"?

That is, it detects the presence of a (10BaseT) cable in the back of the 
card.. and then does appropriate stuff (ifup/down, dhcpcd) when the event 
happens.
I remember  having this in W*nME, so can linux use it?
if so can someone please give me some pointers to appropriate sites/howtos on 
how to use it?

Many Thanks
	- Jeff Snyder

Re: Network hardware: "Network Media Detection"

[H. Peter Anvin]

Followup to:  <E167ja2-0004fF-00@carbon.btinternet.com>
By author:    Jeff Snyder <je4d@pobox.com>
In newsgroup: linux.dev.kernel
>
> Hi
> I was wondering if there was any way in linux to use what redmond calls 
> "Network Media Detection"?
> 
> That is, it detects the presence of a (10BaseT) cable in the back of the 
> card.. and then does appropriate stuff (ifup/down, dhcpcd) when the event 
> happens.
> I remember  having this in W*nME, so can linux use it?
> if so can someone please give me some pointers to appropriate sites/howtos on 
> how to use it?
> 

This is basically taking the interface down when the link disappears
(and vice versa.)  Rather useful for portable systems.  Don't think
anyone has implemented it, but it should be easy enough to do.

	-hpa
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"Unix gives you enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot."
http://www.zytor.com/~hpa/puzzle.txt	<amsp@zytor.com>

Re: Network hardware: "Network Media Detection"

[[MOc]cda*mirabilos]

> > That is, it detects the presence of a (10BaseT) cable in the back of
the
> > card.. and then does appropriate stuff (ifup/down, dhcpcd) when the
event
> > happens.
> This is basically taking the interface down when the link disappears
> (and vice versa.)  Rather useful for portable systems.  Don't think
> anyone has implemented it, but it should be easy enough to do.

pcmcia-cs has (had?) this, just edit /etc/pcmcia/blah-script...
needed to do this to get the default route set on card load,
and removed on unload.

-mirabilos
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Re: Network hardware: "Network Media Detection"

[john slee]

On Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 05:47:04PM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> > Hi
> > I was wondering if there was any way in linux to use what redmond calls 
> > "Network Media Detection"?
> This is basically taking the interface down when the link disappears
> (and vice versa.)  Rather useful for portable systems.  Don't think
> anyone has implemented it, but it should be easy enough to do.

is there a common field in net_device{} for link state (not just up or
down, but media type too)?

all the various ethernet drivers seem to handle link changes rather
differently.  being able to notify userspace of media changes in a
not-driver-specific manner would be nice as links flapping from 10 to
100Mbps and back often means problems are afoot.

also i am undecided on _how_ to tell userspace about it...  the current
hotplug system only seems to handle plug/unplug, whereas this is a
device state change and as such doesn't really fit the mould...

j.

-- 
R N G G   "Well, there it goes again... And we just sit 
 I G G G   here without opposable thumbs." -- gary larson

Re: Network hardware: "Network Media Detection"

[Jeff Garzik]

john slee wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 05:47:04PM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> > > Hi
> > > I was wondering if there was any way in linux to use what redmond calls
> > > "Network Media Detection"?
> > This is basically taking the interface down when the link disappears
> > (and vice versa.)  Rather useful for portable systems.  Don't think
> > anyone has implemented it, but it should be easy enough to do.
> 
> is there a common field in net_device{} for link state (not just up or
> down, but media type too)?
> 
> all the various ethernet drivers seem to handle link changes rather
> differently.  being able to notify userspace of media changes in a
> not-driver-specific manner would be nice as links flapping from 10 to
> 100Mbps and back often means problems are afoot.
> 
> also i am undecided on _how_ to tell userspace about it...  the current
> hotplug system only seems to handle plug/unplug, whereas this is a
> device state change and as such doesn't really fit the mould...

Functions provided by kernel that net drivers should be using:
netif_carrier_on
netif_carrier_off
netif_carrier_ok

ioctl that should be handled by net drivers, to provide link status to
userspace:
ETHTOOL_GLINK

Long term, we want to send a netlink message when link status changes.

	Jeff


-- 
Jeff Garzik      | Only so many songs can be sung
Building 1024    | with two lips, two lungs, and one tongue.
MandrakeSoft     |         - nomeansno

linux 2.4.13 Kernel and Ext3 vs Ext2

[Miguel Maria Godinho de Matos]

With the kernel bug from the past few weeks, i saw my self in a situation 
where i had to upgrade/change my kernel, but didn't knew which version to 
choose.

I am currently running my old 2.4.7 stable version with no known bugs ( i 
think ) but this is not what i want, So i went digging and found out that the 
kernel 2.4.13 hasn't also got no known major bugs, and so  i am wondering if 
i should compile that kernel version or wait to the 2.4.16 final one!!!

My question is, which kernel version support the ext3 partition format?

My current kernel supports it, it has to as i running it, but the 2.4.14 
didn't, so i don't know which versions do support this partition type!


Another matter now:

When i first installed linux red hat 7.2 one  month ago, i saw that there had 
appeard a new partition format, but as i am new to linux, and as the 
installation info about ext3 advised me that ext3 had lots of advantages over 
ext2, i choosen ext3!

I want to know whether i did the right or the wrong thing, and which are the 
main differences between these two types!!!


ha, and before saying goodbye, where can read the complete information about 
each and every kernel release?

tks, Astinus

Re: linux 2.4.13 Kernel and Ext3 vs Ext2

[François Cami]

Miguel Maria Godinho de Matos wrote:


> My question is, which kernel version support the ext3 partition format?


2.4.15pre2 onwards

I would wait for 2.4.16 to be out though, or try 2.4.16pre1.

> ext3 had lots of advantages over 
> ext2, i choosen ext3!
> 
> I want to know whether i did the right or the wrong thing, and which are the 
> main differences between these two types!!!


Well ext3 is a journalled file system... See 
http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP/LG/issue68/dellomodarme.html
for a good explanation of this.


> ha, and before saying goodbye, where can read the complete information about 
> each and every kernel release?


Read the Changelogs.
kernels released until yesterday :
ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/testing/old/
from now on :
ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/testing/
ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.5/testing/

François

Re: linux 2.4.13 Kernel and Ext3 vs Ext2

[James Davies]

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:05, Miguel Maria Godinho de Matos wrote:
> With the kernel bug from the past few weeks, i saw my self in a situation
> where i had to upgrade/change my kernel, but didn't knew which version to
> choose.
>
> I am currently running my old 2.4.7 stable version with no known bugs ( i
> think ) but this is not what i want, So i went digging and found out that
> the kernel 2.4.13 hasn't also got no known major bugs, and so  i am
> wondering if i should compile that kernel version or wait to the 2.4.16
> final one!!!
>
> My question is, which kernel version support the ext3 partition format?
>
> My current kernel supports it, it has to as i running it, but the 2.4.14
> didn't, so i don't know which versions do support this partition  type!
>
> Another matter now:
>
> When i first installed linux red hat 7.2 one  month ago, i saw that there
> had appeard a new partition format, but as i am new to linux, and as the
> installation info about ext3 advised me that ext3 had lots of advantages
> over ext2, i choosen ext3!
>
> I want to know whether i did the right or the wrong thing, and which are
> the main differences between these two types!!!
>

AFAIK, ext3 was introduced to the kernel in 2.4.15, which is currently the 
latest, and also happens to have a bug which can ruin your filesystem.. i.e. 
dont use it. Your current kernel has ext3 support because redhat has patched 
your kernel with it (and numerous other patches). As far as upgrading kernels 
go, if your current one is fine, and you dont have any real need for features 
in a later one, then stick with your current one. If you do want to upgrade, 
2.4.13 is the latest kernel without any major bugs. It doesnt have ext3 
support but you can download a patch. ext3 is virtually the same as ext2 
anyway- a kernel with ext2 support will happily read and write ext3 without 
any problems, you just wont have journaling support.

You can also download a kernel RPM. the latest one released by redhat is 
2.4.13, and it is pretty much guaranteed to work with your current system and 
not break anything. It is also be patched with ext3 support. 

>
> ha, and before saying goodbye, where can read the complete information
> about each and every kernel release?
>

	"http://www.ramdown.com/war/kernel.html" has information on major bugs
	
	

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Re: linux 2.4.13 Kernel and Ext3 vs Ext2

[arjan]

In article <20011125132713Z280878-17408+19757@vger.kernel.org> you wrote:

> You can also download a kernel RPM. the latest one released by redhat is 
> 2.4.13, and it is pretty much guaranteed to work with your current system and 
> not break anything. It is also be patched with ext3 support. 

Ehmmm..... The last released kernel by Red Hat is 2.4.9-13, not
2.4.13-something....

Re: linux 2.4.13 Kernel and Ext3 vs Ext2

[James Davies]

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:37, arjan@fenrus.demon.nl wrote:
> In article <20011125132713Z280878-17408+19757@vger.kernel.org> you wrote:
> > You can also download a kernel RPM. the latest one released by redhat is
> > 2.4.13, and it is pretty much guaranteed to work with your current system
> > and not break anything. It is also be patched with ext3 support.
>
> Ehmmm..... The last released kernel by Red Hat is 2.4.9-13, not
> 2.4.13-something....

ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/rawhide/1.0/i386/RedHat/RPMS/kernel-2.4.13-0.6.i386.rpm


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Re: linux 2.4.13 Kernel and Ext3 vs Ext2

[Stefan Smietanowski]

James Davies wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:37, arjan@fenrus.demon.nl wrote:
> 
>>In article <20011125132713Z280878-17408+19757@vger.kernel.org> you wrote:
>>
>>>You can also download a kernel RPM. the latest one released by redhat is
>>>2.4.13, and it is pretty much guaranteed to work with your current system
>>>and not break anything. It is also be patched with ext3 support.
>>>
>>Ehmmm..... The last released kernel by Red Hat is 2.4.9-13, not
>>2.4.13-something....
>>
> 
> ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/rawhide/1.0/i386/RedHat/RPMS/kernel-2.4.13-0.6.i386.rpm

Rawhide. That's like -pre. Ie, run it at your own risk, if it breaks, 
you get to keep the pieces.

// Stefan

Re: linux 2.4.13 Kernel and Ext3 vs Ext2

[Arjan van de Ven]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 12:28:27AM +1000, James Davies wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:37, arjan@fenrus.demon.nl wrote:
> > In article <20011125132713Z280878-17408+19757@vger.kernel.org> you wrote:
> > > You can also download a kernel RPM. the latest one released by redhat is
> > > 2.4.13, and it is pretty much guaranteed to work with your current system
> > > and not break anything. It is also be patched with ext3 support.
> >
> > Ehmmm..... The last released kernel by Red Hat is 2.4.9-13, not
> > 2.4.13-something....
> 
> ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/rawhide/1.0/i386/RedHat/RPMS/kernel-2.4.13-0.6.i386.rpm

rawhide != released !!!!!
rawhide is a weekly development snapshot that is taken at basically a random
time. Those kernels have seen no QA and are untested, they might not even
boot.

You're very welcome to help betatest them, and I welcome all bugreports
against them; however considering them as released... no

Greetings,
   Arjan van de Ven

Re: linux 2.4.13 Kernel and Ext3 vs Ext2

[J Sloan]

Arjan van de Ven wrote:

> rawhide != released !!!!!
> rawhide is a weekly development snapshot that is taken at basically a random
> time. Those kernels have seen no QA and are untested, they might not even
> boot.
>
> You're very welcome to help betatest them, and I welcome all bugreports
> against them; however considering them as released... no

I have an interesting story - I help out at a shop
where they run Red Hat samba servers, firewall,
ftp servers and vpn server. They run a program
called docuware on the samba clients BTW.

Anyway, when the offifical 2.4.3 kernel upgrade
from Red Hat came out, we upgraded all the 7.1
boxes by the book. Subsequently the docuware
server started crashing - hard lockup, very nasty.

All the customer had to do was run something
called "active import", and the box would hang.
(FWIW, it has 3ware controllers)

On a weekend you go for the quick fix - on a
whim we installed the rawhide 2.4.7-2 kernel,
had them run "active import" and crossed our
fingers. The box stayed solid. Since then it's
been up for about 100 days - all the boxes
there are now running that rawhide kernel.

Go figure!

cu

jjs

Re: linux 2.4.13 Kernel and Ext3 vs Ext2

[Marco Colombo]

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001, Arjan van de Ven wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 12:28:27AM +1000, James Davies wrote:
> > On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:37, arjan@fenrus.demon.nl wrote:
> > > In article <20011125132713Z280878-17408+19757@vger.kernel.org> you wrote:
> > > > You can also download a kernel RPM. the latest one released by redhat is
> > > > 2.4.13, and it is pretty much guaranteed to work with your current system
> > > > and not break anything. It is also be patched with ext3 support.
> > >
> > > Ehmmm..... The last released kernel by Red Hat is 2.4.9-13, not
> > > 2.4.13-something....
> > 
> > ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/rawhide/1.0/i386/RedHat/RPMS/kernel-2.4.13-0.6.i386.rpm
> 
> rawhide != released !!!!!
> rawhide is a weekly development snapshot that is taken at basically a random
> time. Those kernels have seen no QA and are untested, they might not even
> boot.

That's only half of the truth. Go and search bugzilla at Red Hat. They
have many bugs in a 'fixed in Rawhide' status. 

I see that having a 'not yet QA-tested' fix it's better than not having it
at all, but it's also true that they mark the bug 'CLOSED' after putting it
in 'fixed in Rawhide' state. IMHO, that's quite an official statement
about the bug itself.  It means go and use rawhide (not as a whole,
of course).  They should leave the bug OPEN until an official *errata*
exists.  Otherwise, people get the idea that rawhide == errata. Thus,
kind of released.

> You're very welcome to help betatest them, and I welcome all bugreports
> against them; however considering them as released... no

Ehm, I admit the above might not be true for *kernel* rpms. I'm not
aware of any major kernel bug that has been fixed in rawhide and *not*
in errata.  But rahwide is more than a just random snapshot, it's also
a place to look for fixes. I mean, a place where Red Hat officially says
you should be looking for fixes. A simple search on bugzilla shows 
78 CLOSED bugs with resolution == RAWHIDE (it may be just an update
problem, of course). I hope the 'you keep the pieces' things is not true
for 'CLOSED' bugs.

But this is quite OT, of course. Please move further discussion to 
private mail.

> 
> Greetings,
>    Arjan van de Ven
> -
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> 

.TM. - a happy Red Hat user

Re: linux 2.4.13 Kernel and Ext3 vs Ext2

[J Sloan]

arjan@fenrus.demon.nl wrote:

> In article <20011125132713Z280878-17408+19757@vger.kernel.org> you wrote:
>
> > You can also download a kernel RPM. the latest one released by redhat is
> > 2.4.13, and it is pretty much guaranteed to work with your current system and
> > not break anything. It is also be patched with ext3 support.
>
> Ehmmm..... The last released kernel by Red Hat is 2.4.9-13, not
> 2.4.13-something....

Well, the rawhide (release "1.0") is currently
"shipping" with a 2.4.13 kernel -

;-)

jjs

Re: linux 2.4.13 Kernel and Ext3 vs Ext2

[Stefan Smietanowski]

Hi.

>>>You can also download a kernel RPM. the latest one released by redhat is
>>>2.4.13, and it is pretty much guaranteed to work with your current system and
>>>not break anything. It is also be patched with ext3 support.
>>>
>>Ehmmm..... The last released kernel by Red Hat is 2.4.9-13, not
>>2.4.13-something....
>>
> 
> Well, the rawhide (release "1.0") is currently
> "shipping" with a 2.4.13 kernel -

Yeah, but rawhide is and always will be a thing that might run. I know 
that sometimes they throw in packages that won't work with other 
packages until those are replaced. Rawhide if for testing, not 
production. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. No guarantees, no 
QA, no nothing.

// Stefan

Re: linux 2.4.13 Kernel and Ext3 vs Ext2

[Horst von Brand]

arjan@fenrus.demon.nl said:

[...]

> Ehmmm..... The last released kernel by Red Hat is 2.4.9-13, not
> 2.4.13-something....

Most distribution kernels (RH included) are *far* from their base versions,
with lots of unofficial and official patches from later kernels.
-- 
Horst von Brand                             vonbrand@sleipnir.valparaiso.cl
Casilla 9G, Vin~a del Mar, Chile                               +56 32 672616