From: Stephen Samuel <samuel@bcgreen.com>
To: "Matthew D. Pitts" <mpitts@suite224.net>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
"Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@vger.timpanogas.org>
Subject: Re: Petition Against Official Endorsement of BitKeeper by Linux Maintainers
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:39:21 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3C881649.2030000@bcgreen.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20020305165233.A28212@fireball.zosima.org> <20020305154147.A6211@vger.timpanogas.org> <3C8554F4.9000403@bcgreen.com> <004301c1c4a6$ab218340$b0d3fea9@pcs686>
Matthew D. Pitts wrote:
> Stephen, et al...
>
> As has already been said, if you don't want BitKeeper to be used by kernel
> developers, write something that is just as good and release it under the
> GPL... That way, we have a choice of equals, not apples and oranges...
That could be considered ONE solution -- or simply one ASPECT of
a different solution.
I'm not going to suggest that the current OS solutions are currently
better than what BitKeeper currently has to offer -- but if we always
constrained ourselves to simply using whatever's the best solution
(without any allowance for whether or not it was open source), the
GNU project would never have started, and projects like ABI word,
and K-Office would never have gotten to where they are today.
I think that the people petitioning Linus (and really, the whole
Linux Kernel community) to not hav BitKeeper be part of the
official linux kernel development architecture recognize that
the *current* version of the Open Source solutions are not
clearly superior to some of the current proprietary solutions --
but then again, that was the situation with the Linux Kernel
for many years too.
Some people worked on and put up with and cleaned up the Linux
environent in it's early days -- when it was clearly NOT as easy
to do as working on Solaris -- or, in some cases, even Window
(especially if you go back far enough). Many of these people did
that work because they believed in the PRINCIPLE of building an
Open Source/Free solution that was, ultimately, going to be
far better that what was (and was going to be) available in
the proprietary world.
Working today on almost entirely free or open source products,
I am standing on top of the blood, sweat, tears and lost data
of those pioneers. Many of those pioneers are still working on
the linux kernel. For them the idea that, after up to a decade of
building free source solutions, they should need to buy a proprietary
solution to continue to 'be in the loop' is galling.
Some of these people have eschewed high paying jobs to be able to
continue to work on parts of Linux, so -- for them -- having to fork
out extra money for a proprietary code control solution is also
prohibitive. (this may not be too obvious to someone who routinely
makes in the 6-digits range working for a large company)
For many of these people, the answer is 2-prong:
1 - - and as you suggested - - produce an Open Source tool that is
better for the task than the proprietary stuff, and
2 - - in the mean time bite the bullet, continue to use the
open source solution, and take the (hopefully short-term)
cost that goes along with that.
besides what I mentioned above, one of the advantages of doing
number 2 is that it actually provides an ongoing incentive to
have a workable Open Source solution in place sooner, rather
than later. Once that happens, then not only will the heart of
this dispute go away, but the open source community will be free
to develop and tweak the solution to their own needs, rather than
bowing to the economic needs and plans of a pseudo-anonymous
company.
note: this solution DOES NOT PRECLUDE YOU (or anybody else) FROM
USING BITKEEPER (or any other proprietary solution) in the privacy of
your office and/or home -- even if you want to do Linux development
with it. It's simply about what occurs in the OFFICIAL Linux kernel
code tree, which probably has a reasonably high proportion of people
who are both politically and financially sensitive to the idea of
being almost required to use an closed source product to work on
their open source 'baby'.
--
Stephen Samuel +1(604)876-0426 samuel@bcgreen.com
http://www.bcgreen.com/~samuel/
Powerful committed communication, reaching through fear, uncertainty and
doubt to touch the jewel within each person and bring it to life.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-03-08 1:45 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-03-05 21:52 Petition Against Official Endorsement of BitKeeper by Linux Maintainers The Open Source Club at The Ohio State University
2002-03-05 22:16 ` Andrew Morton
2002-03-05 22:38 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2002-03-06 0:51 ` Larry McVoy
2002-03-06 14:54 ` Kent Borg
2002-03-06 16:56 ` Larry McVoy
2002-03-06 22:13 ` Pavel Machek
2002-03-07 16:17 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2002-03-07 19:54 ` Andrew Morton
2002-03-07 20:15 ` Larry McVoy
2002-03-07 20:38 ` yodaiken
2002-03-07 21:05 ` [opensource] " michael bernstein
2002-03-07 21:07 ` Larry McVoy
2002-03-07 21:24 ` Richard Gooch
2002-03-07 22:44 ` Florian Weimer
2002-03-07 23:08 ` [opensource] Re: Petition Against Official Endorsement of Alan Cox
2002-03-07 23:04 ` Florian Weimer
2002-03-08 4:12 ` Open Source should stand on its own two legs Mark Mielke
2002-03-07 21:41 ` [opensource] Re: Petition Against Official Endorsement of BitKeeper by Linux Maintainers yodaiken
2002-03-07 22:01 ` John Jasen
2002-03-07 22:17 ` Rik van Riel
2002-03-07 23:21 ` Alan Cox
2002-03-13 2:31 ` Petro
2002-03-08 2:38 ` Rusty Russell
2002-03-07 20:50 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2002-03-07 20:53 ` Larry McVoy
2002-03-07 21:23 ` Andrew Morton
2002-03-07 21:42 ` Rik van Riel
2002-03-07 21:47 ` Anton Altaparmakov
2002-03-07 20:50 ` Cort Dougan
2002-03-07 21:12 ` Rik van Riel
2002-03-07 21:15 ` Cort Dougan
2002-03-07 22:28 ` Petition Against Official Endorsement of BitKeeper by LinuxMaintainers Andrew Morton
2002-03-07 22:47 ` Cort Dougan
2002-03-07 22:56 ` Andrew Morton
2002-03-15 6:45 ` kgdb for 2.4 and 2.5, now in BK Jeff Garzik
2002-03-07 21:47 ` Petition Against Official Endorsement of BitKeeper by Linux Maintainers Andrew Morton
2002-03-07 21:58 ` Cort Dougan
2002-03-07 21:58 ` Rik van Riel
2002-03-07 22:08 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-03-07 22:46 ` Florian Weimer
2002-03-07 22:42 ` Florian Weimer
2002-03-07 19:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-03-07 19:32 ` Larry McVoy
2002-03-07 20:12 ` george anzinger
2002-03-07 21:37 ` kernel debuggers (was Bitkeeper Bashing) Jeff V. Merkey
2002-03-05 22:41 ` Petition Against Official Endorsement of BitKeeper by Linux Maintainers Jeff V. Merkey
2002-03-05 22:40 ` [opensource] " Colin Walters
2002-03-05 22:54 ` [opensource] Re: Petition Against Official Endorsement ofBitKeeper " Jeff Garzik
2002-03-05 23:06 ` Colin Walters
2002-03-05 23:11 ` William Lee Irwin III
2002-03-06 0:09 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2002-03-06 2:23 ` Karl
2002-03-06 3:35 ` michael bernstein
2002-03-07 1:22 ` David Schwartz
2002-03-05 23:01 ` [opensource] Re: Petition Against Official Endorsement of BitKeeper " Mike Fedyk
2002-03-05 23:14 ` H. Peter Anvin
2002-03-05 23:25 ` David Lang
2002-03-06 20:46 ` Mark Mielke
2002-03-06 21:07 ` Chris Friesen
2002-03-07 2:35 ` Petro
2002-03-05 23:16 ` David Lang
2002-03-05 23:19 ` Colin Walters
2002-03-05 23:36 ` Michael Bernstein
2002-03-05 23:52 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-03-05 23:57 ` That Linux Guy
2002-03-06 0:02 ` Kenneth Johansson
2002-03-06 1:05 ` Alexander Viro
2002-03-06 1:22 ` Dave Jones
2002-03-06 1:46 ` Shawn Starr
2002-03-06 1:50 ` Mike Fedyk
2002-03-06 1:59 ` Larry McVoy
2002-03-06 2:19 ` Shawn Starr
2002-03-06 16:08 ` Rik van Riel
2002-03-07 1:27 ` David Schwartz
2002-03-07 1:34 ` Rik van Riel
2002-03-07 2:33 ` Petro
2002-03-07 7:06 ` Rob Turk
2002-03-09 16:12 ` [opensource] Re: Petition Against Official Endorsement of BitKeepe Kai Henningsen
2002-03-06 16:04 ` [opensource] Re: Petition Against Official Endorsement of BitKeeper by Linux Maintainers Rik van Riel
2002-03-06 19:46 ` Colin Walters
2002-03-06 20:12 ` Davide Libenzi
2002-03-06 20:24 ` Rik van Riel
2002-03-06 20:57 ` David S. Miller
2002-03-06 21:12 ` Larry McVoy
2002-03-06 21:15 ` Cort Dougan
2002-03-06 21:25 ` Evan Powers
2002-03-05 22:50 ` Kilobug
2002-03-05 23:29 ` Stephen Samuel
[not found] ` <004301c1c4a6$ab218340$b0d3fea9@pcs686>
2002-03-08 1:39 ` Stephen Samuel [this message]
2002-03-08 2:25 ` Alexander Viro
2002-03-08 3:32 ` yodaiken
2002-03-08 4:35 ` Andreas Dilger
2002-03-08 7:56 ` Sean Hunter
2002-03-06 2:23 ` Karl
2002-03-06 3:47 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2002-03-06 3:40 ` [opensource] " michael bernstein
2002-03-06 5:04 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2002-03-05 23:58 ` Alan Cox
2002-03-06 0:11 ` [opensource] " Colin Walters
2002-03-06 6:11 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2002-03-06 7:50 ` Eric W. Biederman
2002-03-06 15:58 ` Rik van Riel
2002-03-07 9:15 ` Pau Aliagas
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-03-05 22:33 rddunlap
[not found] <20020305165233.A28212@fireball.zosima.org.suse.lists.linux.kernel>
[not found] ` <3C8543CC.A6017F76@zip.com.au.suse.lists.linux.kernel>
2002-03-06 9:40 ` Andi Kleen
2002-03-06 10:17 ` Dave Jones
2002-03-06 14:48 ` Paul P Komkoff Jr
2002-03-06 15:59 ` yodaiken
2002-03-06 13:26 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2002-03-06 14:30 ` Roman Zippel
2002-03-06 17:00 ` Larry McVoy
2002-03-06 18:11 ` Roman Zippel
2002-03-07 4:27 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2002-03-07 16:51 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2002-03-07 17:26 ` Mark Mielke
2002-03-07 17:39 ` Rik van Riel
2002-03-08 10:07 ` Matthias Andree
2002-03-07 18:02 Jean-Luc Leger
2002-03-07 18:33 ` Cort Dougan
2002-03-07 18:10 Nicholas Berry
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