From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:40:19 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:40:18 -0400 Received: from packet.digeo.com ([12.110.80.53]:62597 "EHLO packet.digeo.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 02:39:46 -0400 Message-ID: <3D843008.1AFA5259@digeo.com> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 00:00:24 -0700 From: Andrew Morton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.19-rc5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pete Zaitcev CC: Daniel Phillips , linux-usb-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [BK PATCH] USB changes for 2.5.34 References: <20020915020739.A22101@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Sep 2002 06:44:34.0859 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A7FC7B0:01C25C83] Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Pete Zaitcev wrote: > > > From: Daniel Phillips > > Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 07:10:00 +0200 > > >[...] > > Let's try a different show of hands: How many users would be happier if > > they knew that kernel developers are using modern techniques to improve > > the quality of the kernel? > > I do not see how using a debugger improves a quality of the kernel. > Good thinking and coding does improve kernel quality. Debugger > certainly does not help if someone cannot code. > > A debugger can do some good things. Some people argue that it > improves productivity, which I think may be true under some > circomstances. If your build system sucks and/or slow, and > if you work with a binary only software, debugger helps. > If you work with something like Linux, and compile on something > better than a 333MHz x86, it probably does not help your > productivity. This is all wonderful, but has nothing to do > with the code quality. Uh, I feel obliged to respond to these statements just in case anyone thinks they contain anything which is correct. I have spent twelve months doing kernel development without kgdb and eighteen months with. "With" is better. > And to think that your users would be happier with a crap produced > by a debugger touting Windows graduate than with a quality code > debugged with observation simply defies any reason. > uh-huh.