2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[D.A.M. Revok]

( that's a capital-aye in the hdparm line )

not even the Magic SysReq key will work.

also, don't

"cd /proc/ide/hde ; cat identify"

... same thing
drive-light comes on, but have to use the power-switch to get the machine 
back, ( lost stuff again, fuck )


proc says it's pdc202xx

Promise Ultra series driver Ver 1.20.0.7 2002-05-23
Adapter: Ultra100 on M/B

-- 
http://www.drawright.com/
 - "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" ( Betty Edwards, 
check "Theory", "Gallery", and "Exercises" )
http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/iep/seven_habits.html
 - "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" ( this site is same 
principles as Covey's book )
http://www.eiconsortium.org/research/ei_theory_performance.htm
 - "Working With Emotional Intelligence" ( Goleman: this link is 
/revised/ theory, "Working. . . " is practical )
http://www.leadershipnow.com/leadershop/1978-5.html
 - Corps Business: The 30 /Management Principles/ of the U.S. Marines ( 
David Freedman )

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[John Bradford]

> have to use the power-switch to get the machine back

If you have another terminal accessible, you could try:

hdparm -w /dev/hda

to reset the interface.  I can't guarantee that it wouldn't loose
data, though.

John.

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[D.A.M. Revok]

man, the Magic SysReq key didn't work ( at all ):
it were DEAD
The drive-light stayed on for 10+ hours, nothing happening ( that I could 
figure out ) the whole time.  It /stayed/ dead.

/dev/hde is part of a RAID-5 in my system ( because I no longer trust 
anything else ), and this only happens on drives connected onto the 
Promise controller.

Oh, yeah, I forgot to include this:
trying to touch/activate/read the S.M.A.R.T. in any drive on the Promise 
kills it, too.  Can't activate the reliability-system without killing 
the kernel? /that's/ ironic, eh?


As for having another terminal connected to my home machine...
1. if the kernel's dead, then how's that gonna work, and
2. why have 2 terminals on one machine when I'm a hermit?

I /do/ thank you for the interface-reset tip, though, I hope I never need 
that info  : )

On Sun 15 December, 2002 16:39, you wrote:
>> have to use the power-switch to get the machine back
>
>If you have another terminal accessible, you could try:
>
>hdparm -w /dev/hda
>
>to reset the interface.  I can't guarantee that it wouldn't loose
>data, though.
>
>John.

-- 
http://www.drawright.com/
 - "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" ( Betty Edwards, 
check "Theory", "Gallery", and "Exercises" )
http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/iep/seven_habits.html
 - "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" ( this site is same 
principles as Covey's book )
http://www.eiconsortium.org/research/ei_theory_performance.htm
 - "Working With Emotional Intelligence" ( Goleman: this link is 
/revised/ theory, "Working. . . " is practical )
http://www.leadershipnow.com/leadershop/1978-5.html
 - Corps Business: The 30 /Management Principles/ of the U.S. Marines ( 
David Freedman )

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[John Bradford]

> man, the Magic SysReq key didn't work ( at all ):
> it were DEAD
> The drive-light stayed on for 10+ hours, nothing happening ( that I could 
> figure out ) the whole time.  It /stayed/ dead.
> 
> /dev/hde is part of a RAID-5 in my system ( because I no longer trust 
> anything else ), and this only happens on drives connected onto the 
> Promise controller.
> 
> Oh, yeah, I forgot to include this:
> trying to touch/activate/read the S.M.A.R.T. in any drive on the Promise 
> kills it, too.  Can't activate the reliability-system without killing 
> the kernel? /that's/ ironic, eh?
> 
> 
> As for having another terminal connected to my home machine...
> 1. if the kernel's dead, then how's that gonna work, and

Maybe just the console was not responding.

If I start X with /dev/null as the core pointer, the console locks
completely, but I can still log in on a serial terminal.

I have seen machines which will mostly stop responding when you issue
a sleep command to a disk, E.G.

hdparm -Y /dev/hda

you can't terminate the process with control-C, for example, but if
you are logged in on another virtual terminal, or have another
terminal window open in X, you can reset the interface, and the
machine will respond again.

> 2. why have 2 terminals on one machine when I'm a hermit?

Why not?  I read and write a lot of E-Mail on a serial terminal right
next to my main console, and what about debugging SVGALIB applications?

> I /do/ thank you for the interface-reset tip, though, I hope I never need 
> that info  : )

It can be useful for recovering from a spun-down disk that won't spin
up again :-)

John

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Ross Biro]

The promise chips often respond to starnge situations by locking up the 
PCI bus.  In particular they assert the wait signal and do not release 
it.  This locks the system up had the next time the CPU tries to access 
the PCI bus.  The machine is dead in your case and needs to be reset.

I've sent a PCI bus trace of this happening to Promise and have not yet 
heard anything back yet.

    Ross

John Bradford wrote:

>>man, the Magic SysReq key didn't work ( at all ):
>>it were DEAD
>>The drive-light stayed on for 10+ hours, nothing happening ( that I could 
>>figure out ) the whole time.  It /stayed/ dead.
>>
>>/dev/hde is part of a RAID-5 in my system ( because I no longer trust 
>>anything else ), and this only happens on drives connected onto the 
>>Promise controller.
>>
>>Oh, yeah, I forgot to include this:
>>trying to touch/activate/read the S.M.A.R.T. in any drive on the Promise 
>>kills it, too.  Can't activate the reliability-system without killing 
>>the kernel? /that's/ ironic, eh?
>>
>>
>>As for having another terminal connected to my home machine...
>>1. if the kernel's dead, then how's that gonna work, and
>>    
>>
>
>Maybe just the console was not responding.
>
>If I start X with /dev/null as the core pointer, the console locks
>completely, but I can still log in on a serial terminal.
>
>I have seen machines which will mostly stop responding when you issue
>a sleep command to a disk, E.G.
>
>hdparm -Y /dev/hda
>
>you can't terminate the process with control-C, for example, but if
>you are logged in on another virtual terminal, or have another
>terminal window open in X, you can reset the interface, and the
>machine will respond again.
>
>  
>
>>2. why have 2 terminals on one machine when I'm a hermit?
>>    
>>
>
>Why not?  I read and write a lot of E-Mail on a serial terminal right
>next to my main console, and what about debugging SVGALIB applications?
>
>  
>
>>I /do/ thank you for the interface-reset tip, though, I hope I never need 
>>that info  : )
>>    
>>
>
>It can be useful for recovering from a spun-down disk that won't spin
>up again :-)
>
>John
>-
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
>the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>  
>

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Ross Biro]

There is a bug in the Promise driver that clears an important PIO bit 
when switching into DMA mode.  When you do an hdparm -I, it issues a 
drive command that attempts to transfer data in PIO mode, but since the 
PIO mode timing registers are hosed, the machine locks up.  It's easy to 
reproduce and applies to all drive commands that return data including 
SMART commands.

The bit in particular is bit 4 of PCI config register 0x61+4*channel 
number (PB bit 4 in Promise terms.)  I've got a very unclean fix that I 
will attempt to clean up once I can put a few more important issues to bed.

For the time being, you can try to do a work around by putting the drive 
into PIO mode with hdparm -X 12  before issuing any drive commands.

    Ross

D.A.M. Revok wrote:

>( that's a capital-aye in the hdparm line )
>
>not even the Magic SysReq key will work.
>
>also, don't
>
>"cd /proc/ide/hde ; cat identify"
>
>... same thing
>drive-light comes on, but have to use the power-switch to get the machine 
>back, ( lost stuff again, fuck )
>
>
>proc says it's pdc202xx
>
>Promise Ultra series driver Ver 1.20.0.7 2002-05-23
>Adapter: Ultra100 on M/B
>
>  
>

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Andre Hedrick]

On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Ross Biro wrote:

> 
> There is a bug in the Promise driver that clears an important PIO bit 
> when switching into DMA mode.  When you do an hdparm -I, it issues a 
> drive command that attempts to transfer data in PIO mode, but since the 
> PIO mode timing registers are hosed, the machine locks up.  It's easy to 
> reproduce and applies to all drive commands that return data including 
> SMART commands.
> 
> The bit in particular is bit 4 of PCI config register 0x61+4*channel 
> number (PB bit 4 in Promise terms.)  I've got a very unclean fix that I 
> will attempt to clean up once I can put a few more important issues to bed.
> 
> For the time being, you can try to do a work around by putting the drive 
> into PIO mode with hdparm -X 12  before issuing any drive commands.
> 
>     Ross
> 
> D.A.M. Revok wrote:
> 
> >( that's a capital-aye in the hdparm line )
> >
> >not even the Magic SysReq key will work.
> >
> >also, don't
> >
> >"cd /proc/ide/hde ; cat identify"
> >
> >... same thing
> >drive-light comes on, but have to use the power-switch to get the machine 
> >back, ( lost stuff again, fuck )
> >
> >
> >proc says it's pdc202xx
> >
> >Promise Ultra series driver Ver 1.20.0.7 2002-05-23
> >Adapter: Ultra100 on M/B

And this is the drive hack job that Promise did to it in 2.4.19.
This is not my driver version and you need to nail Marcelo for this issue.
Wait, move to 2.4.20 and it may go away.  Better yet go back to 2.4.18 and
it should be clean.

Regards,


Andre Hedrick
LAD Storage Consulting Group

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Ross Biro]

Andre Hedrick wrote:

>And this is the drive hack job that Promise did to it in 2.4.19.
>This is not my driver version and you need to nail Marcelo for this issue.
>Wait, move to 2.4.20 and it may go away.  Better yet go back to 2.4.18 and
>it should be clean.
>
I'm not sure if the problem code is in the patch from Promise, but I can 
say we have applied the promise supplied patch to 2.4.18 and as a whole 
it is a nightmare.  I don't recomend it if you don't need it.

    Ross

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[D.A.M. Revok]

Ahem.

You /may/ want to remind me, next time, that umounting all filesystems 
except root, remounting root read-only, AND raid-stop'ing all arrays 
would be a good idea before doing this ( I forgot the last one )

Also, it seems that all drives de-allocate a sector every time I do this, 
and this is costing my system integrity...


Yes, it happens on all drives on the controller, and I've 2:
IBM 60GXP, 40GB == /dev/hde
Quantum LM15, 15GB == /dev/hdg

booting into multiuser command-line mode, no X, login as root, umount 
everything, "smartctl -a /dev/hde" ( or hdg ) gets 2 information lines, 
the second being the model# of the drive, and it never reaches the third 
line ( the newline doesn't appear ), and the drive-light comes on, and 
it's permanently hanged.

I'd thought this would be implicit in the 
* "cat /proc/ide/hde/identify" gets the same results *
comment I'd made previously, but did it out of curiosity...


When I did it on the Quantum, the Quantum's drive-light came on ( it's in 
a "mobile-rack" ), so it seems that the drive-light actually is still 
connected to the drive at that point, though nothing useful goes on 
after...


By the way, I seem to have hit this with the earlier 2.4.x kernels, ( 
IIRC ), but had /so/ much problems with flaky config and flaky distros 
at the time, that I didn't get that info out then ( by the time I got a 
stable system, I'd forgot, sorry... )


* Tell me which kernels you want me to try ( except ext3-broken ones ), 
and I'll do it, so you can scope where-the-break-is better, TIA *

     -me

On Tue 17 December, 2002 7:09, you wrote:
>Is it happening with all the drives on the controller? Is it possible
> to immediaately gather the SMART data from the drive after bootup
> using smartctl?
>
>Thanks
>Manish
>
>-----Original Message-----
From: D.A.M. Revok
>To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
>Sent: 12/15/02 12:49 PM
>Subject: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133
>Promise ctrlr, or...
>
>( that's a capital-aye in the hdparm line )
>
>not even the Magic SysReq key will work.
>
>also, don't
>
>"cd /proc/ide/hde ; cat identify"
>
>... same thing
>drive-light comes on, but have to use the power-switch to get the
>machine
>back, ( lost stuff again, fuck )
>
>
>proc says it's pdc202xx
>
>Promise Ultra series driver Ver 1.20.0.7 2002-05-23
>Adapter: Ultra100 on M/B

-- 
http://www.drawright.com/
 - "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" ( Betty Edwards, 
check "Theory", "Gallery", and "Exercises" )
http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/iep/seven_habits.html
 - "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" ( this site is same 
principles as Covey's book )
http://www.eiconsortium.org/research/ei_theory_performance.htm
 - "Working With Emotional Intelligence" ( Goleman: this link is 
/revised/ theory, "Working. . . " is practical )
http://www.leadershipnow.com/leadershop/1978-5.html
 - Corps Business: The 30 /Management Principles/ of the U.S. Marines ( 
David Freedman )

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Andre Hedrick]

Guess you two need to head over to promise and get those blood letting
NDA's signed.  To figure out what is wrong with your deployment.
I have never seen this issue and I know every combination of command calls
to avoid.  What you are doing is not out of spec, just how you are are
doing it is.

Cheers,

Andre Hedrick
LAD Storage Consulting Group


On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, D.A.M. Revok wrote:

> Ahem.
> 
> You /may/ want to remind me, next time, that umounting all filesystems 
> except root, remounting root read-only, AND raid-stop'ing all arrays 
> would be a good idea before doing this ( I forgot the last one )
> 
> Also, it seems that all drives de-allocate a sector every time I do this, 
> and this is costing my system integrity...
> 
> 
> Yes, it happens on all drives on the controller, and I've 2:
> IBM 60GXP, 40GB == /dev/hde
> Quantum LM15, 15GB == /dev/hdg
> 
> booting into multiuser command-line mode, no X, login as root, umount 
> everything, "smartctl -a /dev/hde" ( or hdg ) gets 2 information lines, 
> the second being the model# of the drive, and it never reaches the third 
> line ( the newline doesn't appear ), and the drive-light comes on, and 
> it's permanently hanged.
> 
> I'd thought this would be implicit in the 
> * "cat /proc/ide/hde/identify" gets the same results *
> comment I'd made previously, but did it out of curiosity...
> 
> 
> When I did it on the Quantum, the Quantum's drive-light came on ( it's in 
> a "mobile-rack" ), so it seems that the drive-light actually is still 
> connected to the drive at that point, though nothing useful goes on 
> after...
> 
> 
> By the way, I seem to have hit this with the earlier 2.4.x kernels, ( 
> IIRC ), but had /so/ much problems with flaky config and flaky distros 
> at the time, that I didn't get that info out then ( by the time I got a 
> stable system, I'd forgot, sorry... )
> 
> 
> * Tell me which kernels you want me to try ( except ext3-broken ones ), 
> and I'll do it, so you can scope where-the-break-is better, TIA *
> 
>      -me
> 
> On Tue 17 December, 2002 7:09, you wrote:
> >Is it happening with all the drives on the controller? Is it possible
> > to immediaately gather the SMART data from the drive after bootup
> > using smartctl?
> >
> >Thanks
> >Manish
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> From: D.A.M. Revok
> >To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> >Sent: 12/15/02 12:49 PM
> >Subject: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133
> >Promise ctrlr, or...
> >
> >( that's a capital-aye in the hdparm line )
> >
> >not even the Magic SysReq key will work.
> >
> >also, don't
> >
> >"cd /proc/ide/hde ; cat identify"
> >
> >... same thing
> >drive-light comes on, but have to use the power-switch to get the
> >machine
> >back, ( lost stuff again, fuck )
> >
> >
> >proc says it's pdc202xx
> >
> >Promise Ultra series driver Ver 1.20.0.7 2002-05-23
> >Adapter: Ultra100 on M/B
> 
> -- 
> http://www.drawright.com/
>  - "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" ( Betty Edwards, 
> check "Theory", "Gallery", and "Exercises" )
> http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/iep/seven_habits.html
>  - "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" ( this site is same 
> principles as Covey's book )
> http://www.eiconsortium.org/research/ei_theory_performance.htm
>  - "Working With Emotional Intelligence" ( Goleman: this link is 
> /revised/ theory, "Working. . . " is practical )
> http://www.leadershipnow.com/leadershop/1978-5.html
>  - Corps Business: The 30 /Management Principles/ of the U.S. Marines ( 
> David Freedman )
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[D.A.M. Revok]

Amendment to this email:
=====================
I figured out what it is, more...
hdparm -X12 ( to set PIO instead of UDMA ) /does not/ fix it, so I dug 
into BIOS and re-enabled the bios for that controller...

I'd disabled it because I've a SCSI burner that I use for backup
( DAR Disk ARchiver @ http://dar.linux.free.fr/  -- excellent program ),
as well as for installing distros, and I could not boot from the CD drive 
if the mobo was waiting for an OS to magically appear on whatever ATA 
device I had on the Promise-controller.  The BIOS is written to prevent 
one from choosing SCSI-boot and not Promise-boot while the Promise-BIOS 
is enabled, so I'd disabled it.
... when I re-enabled the Promise-BIOS, the problem disappeared.

So.  I /think/ that somehow the Promise controller isn't being 
initialized properly by the Linux kernel, UNLESS the mobo's BIOS inits 
it first?

============================
============================

Ah,
"What you are doing is not out of spec, just how
  you are are doing it is."
eh??

my typing in
hdparm -l /dev/hde ( upper-case Capital i ), or
smartctl -a, or
cat /proc/ide/hde/identify
are doing things wrong?
or do you mean that
 the method-used-by-these-commands is wrong somehow?

IF it'll get this fixed for everyone, then I'll sign an NDA ( probably: 
I'm reading it first, and discussing the NDA itself, too ), but I don't 
understand how NDA and GPL driver can mix?

I /want/ this fixed, because it's a problem, if for me, then for others 
too...

Does my having the "bios" for that controller turned off create the 
problem? ( I don't boot from those drives, so didn't see any reason to 
have it...  )
... hmmm I'll try changing that before contacting you again

One other weird thing is that when I've got my Quantum LM15 on the 
Promise, I've /got/ to have it on a 40-wire ribbon, or it doesn't work 
right ( can't remember if it fails to boot, or if the drive isn't 
accessable, or what )...
electronically the drive identifies as UDMA 4 or 5 or something, but if I 
put a UDMA cable on it it don't work ( solution? have a 40-wire cable on 
it, unless I've got it on the Via chipset port, in which case UDMA's 
fine... )

If you come-up-with, or have, a diagnostic that'd black-box 
reverse-engineer the bug, tell me, and I'll run it.

( note that now I'm using DAR
http://dar.linux.free.fr/
for backup, so I'm a /lot/ less worried than I used to be about hosing my 
system: the "backup your system" advice parroted always doesn't come 
with a good utility for doing so, but with DAR it's only 16 CD-Rs for 
the crucial stuff   : )   - just figured it's so good you'd benefit from 
knowing about it...   )


On Wed 18 December, 2002 5:44, Andre Hedrick wrote:
>Guess you two need to head over to promise and get those blood letting
>NDA's signed.  To figure out what is wrong with your deployment.
>I have never seen this issue and I know every combination of command
> calls to avoid.  What you are doing is not out of spec, just how you
> are are doing it is.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Andre Hedrick
>LAD Storage Consulting Group
>
>On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, D.A.M. Revok wrote:
>> Ahem.
>>
>> You /may/ want to remind me, next time, that umounting all
>> filesystems except root, remounting root read-only, AND raid-stop'ing
>> all arrays would be a good idea before doing this ( I forgot the last
>> one )
>>
>> Also, it seems that all drives de-allocate a sector every time I do
>> this, and this is costing my system integrity...
>>
>>
>> Yes, it happens on all drives on the controller, and I've 2:
>> IBM 60GXP, 40GB == /dev/hde
>> Quantum LM15, 15GB == /dev/hdg
>>
>> booting into multiuser command-line mode, no X, login as root, umount
>> everything, "smartctl -a /dev/hde" ( or hdg ) gets 2 information
>> lines, the second being the model# of the drive, and it never reaches
>> the third line ( the newline doesn't appear ), and the drive-light
>> comes on, and it's permanently hanged.
>>
>> I'd thought this would be implicit in the
>> * "cat /proc/ide/hde/identify" gets the same results *
>> comment I'd made previously, but did it out of curiosity...
>>
>>
>> When I did it on the Quantum, the Quantum's drive-light came on (
>> it's in a "mobile-rack" ), so it seems that the drive-light actually
>> is still connected to the drive at that point, though nothing useful
>> goes on after...
>>
>>
>> By the way, I seem to have hit this with the earlier 2.4.x kernels, (
>> IIRC ), but had /so/ much problems with flaky config and flaky
>> distros at the time, that I didn't get that info out then ( by the
>> time I got a stable system, I'd forgot, sorry... )
>>
>>
>> * Tell me which kernels you want me to try ( except ext3-broken ones
>> ), and I'll do it, so you can scope where-the-break-is better, TIA *
>>
>>      -me
>>
>> On Tue 17 December, 2002 7:09, you wrote:
>> >Is it happening with all the drives on the controller? Is it
>> > possible to immediaately gather the SMART data from the drive after
>> > bootup using smartctl?
>> >
>> >Thanks
>> >Manish
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: D.A.M. Revok
>>
>> >To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
>> >Sent: 12/15/02 12:49 PM
>> >Subject: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus
>> > A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...
>> >
>> >( that's a capital-aye in the hdparm line )
>> >
>> >not even the Magic SysReq key will work.
>> >
>> >also, don't
>> >
>> >"cd /proc/ide/hde ; cat identify"
>> >
>> >... same thing
>> >drive-light comes on, but have to use the power-switch to get the
>> >machine
>> >back, ( lost stuff again, fuck )
>> >
>> >
>> >proc says it's pdc202xx
>> >
>> >Promise Ultra series driver Ver 1.20.0.7 2002-05-23
>> >Adapter: Ultra100 on M/B
>>
>> --
>> http://www.drawright.com/
>>  - "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" ( Betty Edwards,
>> check "Theory", "Gallery", and "Exercises" )
>> http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/iep/seven_habits.html
>>  - "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" ( this site is same
>> principles as Covey's book )
>> http://www.eiconsortium.org/research/ei_theory_performance.htm
>>  - "Working With Emotional Intelligence" ( Goleman: this link is
>> /revised/ theory, "Working. . . " is practical )
>> http://www.leadershipnow.com/leadershop/1978-5.html
>>  - Corps Business: The 30 /Management Principles/ of the U.S. Marines
>> ( David Freedman )
>> -
>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe
>> linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

-- 
http://www.drawright.com/
 - "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" ( Betty Edwards, 
check "Theory", "Gallery", and "Exercises" )
http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/iep/seven_habits.html
 - "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" ( this site is same 
principles as Covey's book )
http://www.eiconsortium.org/research/ei_theory_performance.htm
 - "Working With Emotional Intelligence" ( Goleman: this link is 
/revised/ theory, "Working. . . " is practical )
http://www.leadershipnow.com/leadershop/1978-5.html
 - Corps Business: The 30 /Management Principles/ of the U.S. Marines ( 
David Freedman )

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Andre Hedrick]

On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, D.A.M. Revok wrote:

> 
> Ah,
> "What you are doing is not out of spec, just how
>   you are are doing it is."
> eh??

Like MC Hammer says, "Can't touch this!"

There are times when you can do things and there are times you can not.
Until I get authorization to expose and correct, I can not do anything.
This is one of the prices I paid to get the docs under NDA.


Andre Hedrick
LAD Storage Consulting Group

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Alan Cox]

On Wed, 2002-12-18 at 21:35, D.A.M. Revok wrote:
> So.  I /think/ that somehow the Promise controller isn't being 
> initialized properly by the Linux kernel, UNLESS the mobo's BIOS inits 
> it first?

In some situations yes. The BIOS does stuff including fixups we mere
mortals arent permitted to know about.

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Andre Hedrick]

On 18 Dec 2002, Alan Cox wrote:

> On Wed, 2002-12-18 at 21:35, D.A.M. Revok wrote:
> > So.  I /think/ that somehow the Promise controller isn't being 
> > initialized properly by the Linux kernel, UNLESS the mobo's BIOS inits 
> > it first?
> 
> In some situations yes. The BIOS does stuff including fixups we mere
> mortals arent permitted to know about.
> 

That is because I am not permitted to invoke that majic wand yet.

Andre Hedrick
LAD Storage Consulting Group

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[D.A.M. Revok]

Then I'm not buying Promise from now on.  Period.

Being non-able to both 
boot-from-SCSI-CDR, and
use smartctl
is non-acceptable, and if their NDAs rig that then they are a threat 
against /everything/ I base on my systems.

Promise, your business-model damages your customer-relationship's 
survival, are you listening??


On Wed 18 December, 2002 17:38, you wrote:
>On Wed, 2002-12-18 at 21:35, D.A.M. Revok wrote:
>> So.  I /think/ that somehow the Promise controller isn't being
>> initialized properly by the Linux kernel, UNLESS the mobo's BIOS
>> inits it first?
>
>In some situations yes. The BIOS does stuff including fixups we mere
>mortals arent permitted to know about.

-- 
http://www.drawright.com/
 - "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" ( Betty Edwards, 
check "Theory", "Gallery", and "Exercises" )
http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/iep/seven_habits.html
 - "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" ( this site is same 
principles as Covey's book )
http://www.eiconsortium.org/research/ei_theory_performance.htm
 - "Working With Emotional Intelligence" ( Goleman: this link is 
/revised/ theory, "Working. . . " is practical )
http://www.leadershipnow.com/leadershop/1978-5.html
 - Corps Business: The 30 /Management Principles/ of the U.S. Marines ( 
David Freedman )

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Alan Cox]

On Wed, 2002-12-18 at 22:03, D.A.M. Revok wrote:
> Then I'm not buying Promise from now on.  Period.
> 
> Being non-able to both 
> boot-from-SCSI-CDR, and
> use smartctl
> is non-acceptable, and if their NDAs rig that then they are a threat 
> against /everything/ I base on my systems.
> 
> Promise, your business-model damages your customer-relationship's 
> survival, are you listening

Those kind of NDA's are quite normal. You'll see them elsewhere too. You
get this maze of NDA's between vendors about hardware flaws. So promise 
might do a workaround for an ibm disk but have NDA's with IBM that says
they can't tell people. (Thats an example I'm not saying there is a real
IBM case)

Ditto with AGP and AMD for example. They have magic fixup registers for
timings, but won't tell us the fixups for various vendors cards (which
is dumb because its not hard to find out in windows!)

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Denis Vlasenko]

On 18 December 2002 20:38, Alan Cox wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-12-18 at 21:35, D.A.M. Revok wrote:
> > So.  I /think/ that somehow the Promise controller isn't being
> > initialized properly by the Linux kernel, UNLESS the mobo's BIOS
> > inits it first?
>
> In some situations yes. The BIOS does stuff including fixups we mere
> mortals arent permitted to know about.

OTOH mere mortals are allowed to make full dump of PCI config ;)

"D.A.M. Revok" <marvin@synapse.net>, can you send lspci -vvvxxx
outputs when you boot with BIOS enabled and BIOS disabled?
--
vda

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Andre Hedrick]

On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Denis Vlasenko wrote:

> On 18 December 2002 20:38, Alan Cox wrote:
> > On Wed, 2002-12-18 at 21:35, D.A.M. Revok wrote:
> > > So.  I /think/ that somehow the Promise controller isn't being
> > > initialized properly by the Linux kernel, UNLESS the mobo's BIOS
> > > inits it first?
> >
> > In some situations yes. The BIOS does stuff including fixups we mere
> > mortals arent permitted to know about.
> 
> OTOH mere mortals are allowed to make full dump of PCI config ;)
> 
> "D.A.M. Revok" <marvin@synapse.net>, can you send lspci -vvvxxx
> outputs when you boot with BIOS enabled and BIOS disabled?

Promise knows this point.
Thus they moved the setting to a push/pull in the vendor space in the
dma_base+1 and dma_base+3 respectively.

lspci -vvvxxx fails when the content is located in bar4 io space.



Andre Hedrick
LAD Storage Consulting Group

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Tomas Szepe]

> > > > So.  I /think/ that somehow the Promise controller isn't being
> > > > initialized properly by the Linux kernel, UNLESS the mobo's BIOS
> > > > inits it first?
> > >
> > > In some situations yes. The BIOS does stuff including fixups we mere
> > > mortals arent permitted to know about.
> > 
> > OTOH mere mortals are allowed to make full dump of PCI config ;)
> > 
> > "D.A.M. Revok" <marvin@synapse.net>, can you send lspci -vvvxxx
> > outputs when you boot with BIOS enabled and BIOS disabled?
> 
> Promise knows this point.
> Thus they moved the setting to a push/pull in the vendor space in the
> dma_base+1 and dma_base+3 respectively.
> 
> lspci -vvvxxx fails when the content is located in bar4 io space.

Clearly Promise is the one storage vendor whose products are best avoided.

Andre, could you give a recommendation on what add-on IDE controllers are
not junk hardware and will work nicely with Linux?  'Cos I can't seem to
remember seeing anything in the shelves other than Promise or CMD64X/68X.

-- 
Tomas Szepe <szepe@pinerecords.com>

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Andre Hedrick]

On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Tomas Szepe wrote:

> > > > > So.  I /think/ that somehow the Promise controller isn't being
> > > > > initialized properly by the Linux kernel, UNLESS the mobo's BIOS
> > > > > inits it first?
> > > >
> > > > In some situations yes. The BIOS does stuff including fixups we mere
> > > > mortals arent permitted to know about.
> > > 
> > > OTOH mere mortals are allowed to make full dump of PCI config ;)
> > > 
> > > "D.A.M. Revok" <marvin@synapse.net>, can you send lspci -vvvxxx
> > > outputs when you boot with BIOS enabled and BIOS disabled?
> > 
> > Promise knows this point.
> > Thus they moved the setting to a push/pull in the vendor space in the
> > dma_base+1 and dma_base+3 respectively.
> > 
> > lspci -vvvxxx fails when the content is located in bar4 io space.
> 
> Clearly Promise is the one storage vendor whose products are best avoided.

I would not say this is the case.  What is going on is people are wanting
to migrate to more of an internal hidden operation.

Think about it from their side.
They want to make it easier to program the card.

Linux is an OS that like to know what is going on all the time, and the
two clash.

> Andre, could you give a recommendation on what add-on IDE controllers are
> not junk hardware and will work nicely with Linux?  'Cos I can't seem to
> remember seeing anything in the shelves other than Promise or CMD64X/68X.

Hmmm...

Andre Hedrick
LAD Storage Consulting Group

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Tomas Szepe]

> > > > > > So.  I /think/ that somehow the Promise controller isn't being
> > > > > > initialized properly by the Linux kernel, UNLESS the mobo's BIOS
> > > > > > inits it first?
> > > > >
> > > > > In some situations yes. The BIOS does stuff including fixups we mere
> > > > > mortals arent permitted to know about.
> > > > 
> > > > OTOH mere mortals are allowed to make full dump of PCI config ;)
> > > > 
> > > > "D.A.M. Revok" <marvin@synapse.net>, can you send lspci -vvvxxx
> > > > outputs when you boot with BIOS enabled and BIOS disabled?
> > > 
> > > Promise knows this point.
> > > Thus they moved the setting to a push/pull in the vendor space in the
> > > dma_base+1 and dma_base+3 respectively.
> > > 
> > > lspci -vvvxxx fails when the content is located in bar4 io space.
> > 
> > Clearly Promise is the one storage vendor whose products are best avoided.
> 
> I would not say this is the case.  What is going on is people are wanting
> to migrate to more of an internal hidden operation.
> 
> Think about it from their side.
> They want to make it easier to program the card.

The result of their attempts has seemed to be the exact opposite
so far, so I'd say they're either hiding a bit too much or the
hardware doesn't cut it.

Anyway, what are the chances of the 2.4.21-pre PDC driver getting
fixed up so it works like it did in 2.4.18?

> Linux is an OS that like to know what is going on all the time,
> and the two clash.

Are you suggesting something to the point of Windows not having
to cope with the same issues?  There has to be some kind of fundamental
difference given Promise themselves successfully hosed the Linux driver
the instant they touched it, while the Windows one just works. :)

-- 
Tomas Szepe <szepe@pinerecords.com>

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Andre Hedrick]

On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Tomas Szepe wrote:

> > > > > > > So.  I /think/ that somehow the Promise controller isn't being
> > > > > > > initialized properly by the Linux kernel, UNLESS the mobo's BIOS
> > > > > > > inits it first?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In some situations yes. The BIOS does stuff including fixups we mere
> > > > > > mortals arent permitted to know about.
> > > > > 
> > > > > OTOH mere mortals are allowed to make full dump of PCI config ;)
> > > > > 
> > > > > "D.A.M. Revok" <marvin@synapse.net>, can you send lspci -vvvxxx
> > > > > outputs when you boot with BIOS enabled and BIOS disabled?
> > > > 
> > > > Promise knows this point.
> > > > Thus they moved the setting to a push/pull in the vendor space in the
> > > > dma_base+1 and dma_base+3 respectively.
> > > > 
> > > > lspci -vvvxxx fails when the content is located in bar4 io space.
> > > 
> > > Clearly Promise is the one storage vendor whose products are best avoided.
> > 
> > I would not say this is the case.  What is going on is people are wanting
> > to migrate to more of an internal hidden operation.
> > 
> > Think about it from their side.
> > They want to make it easier to program the card.
> 
> The result of their attempts has seemed to be the exact opposite
> so far, so I'd say they're either hiding a bit too much or the
> hardware doesn't cut it.
> 
> Anyway, what are the chances of the 2.4.21-pre PDC driver getting
> fixed up so it works like it did in 2.4.18?

Well, there is an issue.
I have a consulting contract with Promise outstanding.
It is on my desk, but there is on issue I refuse to agree to period.

Nobody in the right mind agrees to disclose their entire IP portfolio, as
a contractor or consultant.  This allow the client to box you into a
corner so tight, that anything in the future they can claim as their own
and tie it back to an contract collecting dust.

> > Linux is an OS that like to know what is going on all the time,
> > and the two clash.
> 
> Are you suggesting something to the point of Windows not having
> to cope with the same issues?  There has to be some kind of fundamental
> difference given Promise themselves successfully hosed the Linux driver
> the instant they touched it, while the Windows one just works. :)

So I am not fixing anything until this issue is resolved.
They pay for what you clearly have stated above.

As for the Windows issue, the scsi-mini-port is a whole differenct beast.
Everyone jokes and laughs at my quote:
	"The world of Storage is nothing but a BIG LIE"

SCSI is a run,poke,sense,verify,transform world.
ATA is a run,check,return world.

That being said, as far as I can tell, the WDDK for mini-port only cares
about the state returned.  So if you do not like the state your hardware
is in, you boost the return and hook a TDI callback or poll check.
It is obvious the OEM Windows driver has unlimited power to fake the
response.

At this point I expect any contract is dead, so use 2.4.18.


Cheers,

Andre Hedrick
LAD Storage Consulting Group

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Ookhoi]

Tomas Szepe wrote (ao):
> Clearly Promise is the one storage vendor whose products are best
> avoided.

This is something I read on lkml a few years ago, and since then now and
then.
> 
> Andre, could you give a recommendation on what add-on IDE controllers
> are not junk hardware and will work nicely with Linux? 'Cos I can't
> seem to remember seeing anything in the shelves other than Promise or
> CMD64X/68X.

What about 3Ware? I have good experience with these and they are aware
of linux.

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Denis Vlasenko]

On 19 December 2002 08:19, Andre Hedrick wrote:
> Promise knows this point.
> Thus they moved the setting to a push/pull in the vendor space in the
> dma_base+1 and dma_base+3 respectively.
> lspci -vvvxxx fails when the content is located in bar4 io space.

Neither I nor original bug reporter (I think) did understand
a bit what you said. Can we plead for IDE -> English translation?
;)
If lspci is of no help, what can we use instead?
--
vda

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Andre Hedrick]

On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Denis Vlasenko wrote:

> On 19 December 2002 08:19, Andre Hedrick wrote:
> > Promise knows this point.
> > Thus they moved the setting to a push/pull in the vendor space in the
> > dma_base+1 and dma_base+3 respectively.
> > lspci -vvvxxx fails when the content is located in bar4 io space.
> 
> Neither I nor original bug reporter (I think) did understand
> a bit what you said. Can we plead for IDE -> English translation?
> ;)
> If lspci is of no help, what can we use instead?

They move the setting which were readable in the asic from PCI space in
the 20246/47/62/65/67 into a sense mode of the asic sniffing the contents
of the taskfile registers to internally do the same thing but hide it all.

The new 20268/69/7* report all zeros in the PCI space.

ioperm()

But be prepared to roast your data.

I do not have a good answer!

Andre Hedrick
LAD Storage Consulting Group

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Ross Biro]

Denis Vlasenko wrote:

>OTOH mere mortals are allowed to make full dump of PCI config ;)
>
>  
>
Some vendors use index/data registers in the config space, so unless you 
know of their existance, a PCI config dump doesn't help.

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Ross Vandegrift]

On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 04:35:58PM -0500, D.A.M. Revok wrote:
> I figured out what it is, more...
> hdparm -X12 ( to set PIO instead of UDMA ) /does not/ fix it, so I dug 
> into BIOS and re-enabled the bios for that controller...

Ah, I can verify this has fixed the lockups for me too.  I previously
had the BIOS disabled cause it takes so long to boot, but recently
reenabled it.  smartctl can hapily operate on all drives now.

> Does my having the "bios" for that controller turned off create the 
> problem? ( I don't boot from those drives, so didn't see any reason to 
> have it...  )

I do now boot from my Promise controlled drives, and yes, I need the
BIOS.

-- 
Ross Vandegrift
ross@willow.seitz.com

A Pope has a Water Cannon.                               It is a Water Cannon.
He fires Holy-Water from it.                        It is a Holy-Water Cannon.
He Blesses it.                                 It is a Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
He Blesses the Hell out of it.          It is a Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
He has it pierced.                It is a Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
He makes it official.       It is a Canon Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
Batman and Robin arrive.                                       He shoots them.

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Stephen Satchell]

At 02:01 PM 12/18/02 -0800, Andre Hedrick wrote:
> >
> > Ah,
> > "What you are doing is not out of spec, just how
> >   you are are doing it is."
> > eh??
>
>Like MC Hammer says, "Can't touch this!"
>
>There are times when you can do things and there are times you can not.
>Until I get authorization to expose and correct, I can not do anything.
>This is one of the prices I paid to get the docs under NDA.

You might tell them they lost another order, this one for 12 controllers.

Satch


-- 
The human mind treats a new idea the way the body treats a strange
protein:  it rejects it.  -- P. Medawar
This posting is for entertainment purposes only; it is not a legal opinion.

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[D.A.M. Revok]

I'd flashed the BIOS awhile ago, and it hasn't been updated since ( that 
I know of, it's an A7V133, so flashing it this year ...

Ah, yes, the scum who maintain the Asus websites don't allow secure 
browser access, so .. switching to Mozilla w/ scripting...
yes, they updated it to deal with the Thoroughbred, .. blockheads don't 
have the flash-util available on the site?
... right, have to go back to download start page..
what drugged official designed the "flow" of this site?

right, I'll check this, possibly flash the 'board, and get back to you.. 
tomorrow, because I've been up too long and am now fried, and I'm not 
flashing BIOS or going through all the setup again while I'm this 
fritzed.

I /hope/ this fixes it, but am not betting anything on it...

... and by the way .. thanks, people, eh?


On Wed 18 December, 2002 17:04, John Bradford wrote:
>> The BIOS is written to prevent one from choosing SCSI-boot and not
>> Promise-boot while the Promise-BIOS is enabled, so I'd disabled it.
>> ... when I re-enabled the Promise-BIOS, the problem disappeared.
>
>Have you checked for a possible BIOS update that might let you leave
>the BIOS enabled, and boot from another device, or alternatively
>initialise the chipset even though the BIOS is disabled?
>
>(I know it sounds odd to look for a BIOS update for an instance when
>you want the BIOS disabled, but, for example, on my Adaptec SCSI
>adaptor, disabling the BIOS means that it doesn't reserve address
>space, but it still initialises the devices.)
>
>I actually have a Promise card that I'm not using.  I bought it, but
>never used it, (I did use the IDE cable that came with it - that must
>have worked out to be the most expensive IDE cable in the world, at
>about 40 quid :-) :-) :-)).
>
>John.

-- 
http://www.drawright.com/
 - "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" ( Betty Edwards, 
check "Theory", "Gallery", and "Exercises" )
http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/iep/seven_habits.html
 - "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" ( this site is same 
principles as Covey's book )
http://www.eiconsortium.org/research/ei_theory_performance.htm
 - "Working With Emotional Intelligence" ( Goleman: this link is 
/revised/ theory, "Working. . . " is practical )
http://www.leadershipnow.com/leadershop/1978-5.html
 - Corps Business: The 30 /Management Principles/ of the U.S. Marines ( 
David Freedman )

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Mike Dresser]

On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, D.A.M. Revok wrote:

> yes, they updated it to deal with the Thoroughbred, .. blockheads don't
> have the flash-util available on the site?

They have at least a few boards that don't need the flash util, you just
alt-f2 when it's booting, and it loads it off the floppy.  I've got an
ASUS P4B533 that i just flashed to a beta 1012, futilely searching for a
fix for the fact that my machine will not boot Win98 unless it is in
logged mode.  Safe mode works, but regular boot will not, only if you do
option 2 in the startup menu.  Had to hunt down a disk to recycle to use.

Speaking of floppies, old wisdom said to always flash off the floppy, then
it was always flash off the hd, and now it's back to flashing off the floppy?

I wonder what you do for floppyless computers.

Mike

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Jason Radford]

>Clearly Promise is the one storage vendor whose products are best avoided.
>
>Andre, could you give a recommendation on what add-on IDE controllers are
>not junk hardware and will work nicely with Linux? 'Cos I can't seem to
>remember seeing anything in the shelves other than Promise or CMD64X/68X.

I'm no IDE RAID expert, however I've build quite a few linux servers
for customers.

If IDE raid unix linux is needed here, there's no question that a
linux supported (thanks adam) 3ware card is dropped in, no questions
asked.  For my 3 years of working with them under linux THEY JUST
WORK.  Native monitoring tools included too..

-Jason

Re: 2.4.19, don't "hdparm -I /dev/hde" if hde is on a Asus A7V133 Promise ctrlr, or...

[Paul Jakma]

On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Jason Radford wrote:

> If IDE raid unix linux is needed here, there's no question that a
> linux supported (thanks adam) 3ware card is dropped in, no questions
> asked.  For my 3 years of working with them under linux THEY JUST
> WORK.  Native monitoring tools included too..

or get an outboard RAID box that uses IDE disks and SCSI for its
connection to the host. plenty of them around if you google. (eg
fibrenetix.co.uk - we have one, and works nicely. reasonably fast
too.)

> -Jason

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	Sys Admin	Alphyra
	paulj@alphyra.ie
Warning: /never/ send email to spam@dishone.st or trap@dishone.st