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From: Tupshin Harper <tupshin@tupshin.com>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Server shipments [was Re: Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call]
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:00:44 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3E5ACE4C.5080908@tupshin.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20030225005451.GC12146@work.bitmover.com>

This conversation has not only gotten out of hand, it's gotten quite
silly. People are arguing semantics and relative economic value where a
few simple assertions should do:

1) There is a significant interest from developers and users in having
Linux run efficiently on *small* platforms.
2) There is a significant interest from developers and users in having
Linux run efficiently on *large* platforms.
3) There is disagreement on whether it is possible to accomplish 1 and 2
simultaneously.
4) There is disagreement on whether adequate testing is taking place to
make sure 2 doesn't degrade 1(or vice versa).

This leads to two choices:
a) Fork. Obviously to be avoided at all reasonable costs.
b) Identify reasonable improvements to the testing methodology so that
any design conflicts are identified immediately instead of gradually
accumulating and degrading performance over time.

I vote b(surprise surprise), however, this just changes the debate to
"what is reasonable testing methodology?" This, however is a debate much
more worth having than "who ships more of what" and "who said what when".

Given that a fairly thorough performance testing suite is already in
place, it would seem to be up to the advocates for the "threatened"
computing environment (large or small) to convince the "testers that be"
that certain tests should be added. It is inherently unreasonable to
expect the developer of a feature/change to be unbiased and neutral with
respect to that feature, therefore it is unreasonable to expect them to
prove beyond a reasonable doubt that their feature has no negative
impact. The best that they can do is convince themselves that the
feature passes the really deep sniff test. The rest is up to the
community. The ability of a third party to critique code changes is a
large part of why the bazaar nature of linux development is so valuable.

-Tupshin



  reply	other threads:[~2003-02-25  1:50 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 157+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <Pine.LNX.4.44.0302221417120.2686-100000@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca>
     [not found] ` <1510000.1045942974@[10.10.2.4]>
2003-02-22 19:56   ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 20:24     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 21:02     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 22:06       ` Mark Hahn
2003-02-22 22:17         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 23:28           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 23:47             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-23  0:09             ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-23  8:01               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-23  8:05                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 18:36             ` Andy Pfiffer
2003-02-22 22:44         ` Ben Greear
2003-02-23 23:29           ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-23 23:37             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  4:57               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  6:10                 ` Gerhard Mack
2003-02-24  6:52                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  7:46                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  7:44                 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  7:54                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24  8:00                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  8:40                       ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-24  8:50                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 16:17                           ` yodaiken
2003-02-24 23:13                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 23:27                               ` yodaiken
2003-02-24 23:54                                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 23:54                                   ` yodaiken
2003-02-25  2:17                                 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:24                                   ` yodaiken
2003-02-25  2:35                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:43                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:32                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  2:40                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  5:24                                   ` Rik van Riel
2003-02-25 15:30                                   ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 14:59                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25 15:44                                       ` yodaiken
2003-02-26 19:31                                   ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-27  0:56                                     ` Bill Huey
2003-02-27 20:04                                       ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-25  2:07                             ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:14                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  2:24                                 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-25  2:46                                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-02-25 14:47                                     ` Mr. James W. Laferriere
2003-02-25 15:59                                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-02-24  8:56                         ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  9:09                           ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-24  9:24                             ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24  9:56                               ` Andrew Morton
2003-02-24 10:11                                 ` Bill Huey
2003-02-24 14:40                           ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24 21:10                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-24  8:43                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 23:10         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-22 23:20           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 23:46             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  2:19         ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-25  3:49           ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  5:12             ` Steven Cole
2003-02-25 20:37               ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 21:36                 ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-25 23:28                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 23:41                     ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-26  0:19                       ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-26  0:35                         ` Hans Reiser
2003-02-26 16:31                           ` Horst von Brand
2003-02-26  0:47                       ` Steven Cole
2003-02-26 16:07                       ` Horst von Brand
2003-02-26 19:47                         ` Alan Cox
2003-02-26  6:04                     ` Aaron Lehmann
2003-02-26  0:44                 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 23:58                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-22 23:15       ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-22 23:23         ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-02-22 23:54           ` Mark Hahn
2003-02-22 23:44         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  4:56           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  5:06             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24  6:00               ` Mark Hahn
2003-02-24  6:02                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 15:06               ` Alan Cox
2003-02-24 23:18                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24  5:16             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24  6:58               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24  7:39                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 16:17                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 16:49                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  0:41                       ` Server shipments [was Re: Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call] Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  0:41                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  0:54                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  2:00                             ` Tupshin Harper [this message]
2003-02-25  3:54                               ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  3:00                             ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  3:13                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  4:11                                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  4:17                                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  4:21                                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25  4:37                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 22:02                                     ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-25 23:19                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 23:46                                         ` Gerhard Mack
2003-02-26  4:23                                           ` Jesse Pollard
2003-02-26  5:05                                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-26  5:27                                             ` Bernd Eckenfels
2003-02-26  9:36                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-02-26 12:09                                               ` Jesse Pollard
2003-02-26 16:42                                                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-02-25 17:37                               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2003-02-25  1:09                           ` David Lang
2003-02-24 18:22                     ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call John W. M. Stevens
2003-02-24  7:51                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-24 15:47                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 16:00                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-24 16:23                     ` Benjamin LaHaise
2003-02-24 16:25                       ` yodaiken
2003-02-24 18:20                         ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-02-25  1:51                           ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call - publishing performance data Craig Thomas
2003-02-24 16:31                       ` Minutes from Feb 21 LSE Call Larry McVoy
2003-02-24 23:36                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25  0:23                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  2:37                         ` Werner Almesberger
2003-02-25  4:42                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25  4:54                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  6:00                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25  7:00                               ` Val Henson
2003-02-24 13:28                 ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25  5:19                   ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25  5:26                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 21:21                       ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 21:14                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 21:21                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 22:08                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25 22:10                             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 22:37                             ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 22:58                               ` Larry McVoy
2003-02-25  6:17                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 17:11                       ` Cliff White
2003-02-25 17:17                         ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 17:38                         ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-25 19:54                           ` Dave Jones
2003-02-26  2:04                             ` Linus Torvalds
2003-02-25 19:48                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-02-25 21:28                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-25 19:20                     ` Alan Cox
2003-02-25 19:59                     ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 20:18                       ` jlnance
2003-02-25 20:59                         ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-25 21:19                       ` Chris Wedgwood
2003-02-25 21:38                         ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-24 18:44                 ` Davide Libenzi
2003-02-22 23:57         ` Jeff Garzik
2003-02-23 23:57         ` Bill Davidsen
2003-02-24  6:22           ` Val Henson
2003-02-24  6:41             ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-02-22 21:29     ` Jeff Garzik

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