Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Christian Kujau]

Margit Schubert-While schrieb:

 >> Errr, guys - you do know that PS2 is NOT hotplug and you
 >> may well end up hosing your mainboard ?


hm, i guessed this was an important thing "in the old days" (TM),
i never had problems when "hotplugging" ps/2. nevertheless - i _have_ to
unplug/replug the ps/2 keyboard to actually _use_ it. after this is done
the keyboard is working right (and the mainboard, too :-))

thank you all for your comments; i only wished
- someone else has these problems too

- one could tell what to try to get error messages or so (usb debugging
and input debugging is available!)

- is it fixable at all? with 2.4.20-rc2 this was is not happening...


Thanks again,
Christian.

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Måns Rullgård]

Christian Kujau <evil@g-house.de> writes:

> hm, i guessed this was an important thing "in the old days" (TM),
> i never had problems when "hotplugging" ps/2. nevertheless - i _have_ to
> unplug/replug the ps/2 keyboard to actually _use_ it. after this is done
> the keyboard is working right (and the mainboard, too :-))
> 
> thank you all for your comments; i only wished
> - someone else has these problems too

Why do you wish your bad luck on others?  Well, I've seen it, too, but
it wasn't very bad for me.  I had only one burst every ~100 keystrokes
or so.  I'm not using 2.5 kernels right now, because of bad IDE disk
performance.

> - one could tell what to try to get error messages or so (usb debugging
> and input debugging is available!)
> 
> - is it fixable at all? with 2.4.20-rc2 this was is not happening...

It was breakable, so it had better be fixable.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@users.sf.net

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Christian Kujau]

Måns Rullgård schrieb:
>>thank you all for your comments; i only wished
>>- someone else has these problems too
> 
> Why do you wish your bad luck on others? 

no, no, this is not what i wanted to say. but i couldn't image why this 
problem does not show up on other ppl's computers too. if more ppl 
complain - the keyboard guys might take a look at it. sorry for being 
unclear.

> 
> It was breakable, so it had better be fixable.
> 

i guess the worst thing is: ther is no error message. if i only had an 
error message one would know where to look at. but i only have these 
weird behaviour. i could post usb-debug messages, if it only would help.

i already got a workaround for me, see my other post.

Thank you,
Christian.

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Konstantin Kletschke]

* Christian Kujau <evil@g-house.de> [Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 01:27:30AM +0200]:
> 
> hm, i guessed this was an important thing "in the old days" (TM),
> i never had problems when "hotplugging" ps/2. nevertheless - i _have_ to
> unplug/replug the ps/2 keyboard to actually _use_ it. after this is done
> the keyboard is working right (and the mainboard, too :-))

Today I realize it more signifikant here. Sometimes a pressed key hangs,
the kernel realizes not, that it was a single click. Then the Key is
repeyted until I press it once again.

Christian, do you get this error only in X or at console too?

Furthermore my ps2 kbd is usable without hotplugging it, though.

The strange thing happens very often using ssh.

In earlyer days I had a similair Problem with an SiS chipset board
@work and 2.4.x ac kernels, there only an usb keyboard is usable.
This happens only happens running X and IIRC this was/is an xfree86 bug
there.

But here @home I get this error for the 1st time with this otherwise
master piece of software being 2.5.70-mm3 :) on an i845PE chipset.

I discovered this only running X 'cause I did not do much console work
with this kernel, since it is so young :)

regards,
Konstantin

-- 
2.5.70-mm3
Konstantin Kletschke <konsti@ludenkalle.de>, <konsti@ku-gbr.de>
GPG KeyID EF62FCEF
Fingerprint: 13C9 B16B 9844 EC15 CC2E  A080 1E69 3FDA EF62 FCEF
keulator.homelinux.org up 1:43, 19 users

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Christian Kujau]

Konstantin Kletschke schrieb:
> * Christian Kujau <evil@g-house.de> [Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 01:27:30AM +0200]:
> 
>>hm, i guessed this was an important thing "in the old days" (TM),
>>i never had problems when "hotplugging" ps/2. nevertheless - i _have_ to
>>unplug/replug the ps/2 keyboard to actually _use_ it. after this is done
>>the keyboard is working right (and the mainboard, too :-))
> 
> Today I realize it more signifikant here. Sometimes a pressed key hangs,
> the kernel realizes not, that it was a single click. Then the Key is
> repeyted until I press it once again.

no, here it's more than "a single klick will write 5-10 chars". it is 
_not_ repeated to the infinite. and no, both kbds are OK (2.4.20-rc3 works)

> Christian, do you get this error only in X or at console too?

on X and console.

> 
> Furthermore my ps2 kbd is usable without hotplugging it, though.
> 
> The strange thing happens very often using ssh.

no, i don't think it's appliation related. to actuallay _use_ my system 
i have to login. and to do that, i will write my username / password. 
and to do that, i have to unplug/replug my keyboard.

since i have other module issues right now i'm on 2.4.20rc3 again. what 
i have done yesterday in the evening was this:
- i compiled 2.5.70 again, input/usb support statically include but with 
a modular  CONFIG_USB_KBD (usbkbd) and a modular CONFIG_KEYBOARD_ATKBD 
(atkbd). then i rebooted, logged in via remote console where i was able 
to load "atkbd" and "usbkbd". then both kbds were up *in a sane way* !!

so this would be the workaround for me.
i wonder when the problem will diesappear as it did on linux/alpha :-)

Thanks for comments,
Christian.

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Måns Rullgård]

Christian Kujau <evil@g-house.de> writes:

> i wonder when the problem will diesappear as it did on linux/alpha :-)

So it's ok on Alpha now?  That's where I saw it.  Strangely, though,
only on one of my machines.  I guess I'll give 2.5.70 a try some day,
but the ALSA problems have been keeping me away from it.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@users.sf.net

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Konstantin Kletschke]

Good Morning :)

I tried it out here at work on an 
00:00.0 Host bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 730 Host (rev 02)

I plugged out the usb keyboard (here I have one), put the usb to ps2
adapter on it and used it as an ps2 keyboard (yes, I hotplugged again).
after a couple of minutes the ENTER key "hung" and stopped repeating
after hitting it again.

Here with this mainboard I experienced this behaviour with 2.4.x kernel
series before, though.

At home on i845PE 2.5.70-mm3 triggers this behaviour.
May a XFree86 Bug is triggered? IIRC there was something discovered
which is not fixed yet, I am searching this thing ATM...

Konsti

-- 
2.5.69-mm7
Konstantin Kletschke <konsti@ludenkalle.de>, <konsti@ku-gbr.de>
GPG KeyID EF62FCEF
Fingerprint: 13C9 B16B 9844 EC15 CC2E  A080 1E69 3FDA EF62 FCEF
keulator.homelinux.org up 46 min, 1

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Konstantin Kletschke]

I don't know if that helps finding the error in any way.

Jun  2 19:51:09 [kernel] atkbd.c: Unknown key (set 2, scancode 0x1c8, on
isa0060/serio0) pressed.
Jun  2 19:51:13 [kernel] atkbd.c: Unknown key (set 2, scancode 0x1c8, on
isa0060/serio0) pressed.

I use an old school IBM PC102 keyboard, there are definitely no modern
unknown keys on it :)

Konsti

-- 
2.5.70-mm3
Konstantin Kletschke <konsti@ludenkalle.de>, <konsti@ku-gbr.de>
GPG KeyID EF62FCEF
Fingerprint: 13C9 B16B 9844 EC15 CC2E  A080 1E69 3FDA EF62 FCEF
keulator.homelinux.org up 2:54, 23 users

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Christian Kujau]

thank you all for your replies, but i'll give up on this.
i still don't have a useable error-message, so i hope that this 
weirdness will disapear, just as on linux/alpha.

i noticed that i do not reboot the very workstation that often, so 
unpluggin/replugging the kbds a few times a week is ok for now 8-)

thank you,
Christian.

weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Margit Schubert-While]

Errr, guys - you do know that PS2 is NOT hotplug and you
may well end up hosing your mainboard ?

Margit

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Alan Cox]

On Sad, 2003-05-31 at 17:44, Margit Schubert-While wrote:
> Errr, guys - you do know that PS2 is NOT hotplug and you
> may well end up hosing your mainboard ?

For any vaguely modern machine you'll find thats not the case. If
I remember rightly the requirement for PS/2 to be hotplug safe was
added into the PC specs the vendors use about 1998

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Måns Rullgård]

Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> writes:

> > Errr, guys - you do know that PS2 is NOT hotplug and you
> > may well end up hosing your mainboard ?
> 
> For any vaguely modern machine you'll find thats not the case. If
> I remember rightly the requirement for PS/2 to be hotplug safe was
> added into the PC specs the vendors use about 1998

I've never seen any ill effects of hotplugging PS/2 on older gear
either.  XFree86 used to dislike it, though.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@users.sf.net

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[xombi]

On 31 May 2003, Alan Cox wrote:
> On Sad, 2003-05-31 at 17:44, Margit Schubert-While wrote:
> > Errr, guys - you do know that PS2 is NOT hotplug and you
> > may well end up hosing your mainboard ?
>
> For any vaguely modern machine you'll find thats not the case. If
> I remember rightly the requirement for PS/2 to be hotplug safe was
> added into the PC specs the vendors use about 1998

I have a Abit-KT7 (Socket A, wo/RAID) motherboard that dies if you unplug
the keyboard, but not the mouse. IIRC that's a mid-to late 2000
motherboard.

-- 
\ \/ / _       |~\  _ In God We Trust. All Others Pay Cash.
 >  < / \|\  /|+-< | |  "The world is a comedy to those that think,
/ /\ \\_/| \/ ||__)|_|   a tragedy to those who feel." - Horace Walpole

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[root]

> 
> On 31 May 2003, Alan Cox wrote:
> > On Sad, 2003-05-31 at 17:44, Margit Schubert-While wrote:
> > > Errr, guys - you do know that PS2 is NOT hotplug and you
> > > may well end up hosing your mainboard ?
> >
> > For any vaguely modern machine you'll find thats not the case. If
> > I remember rightly the requirement for PS/2 to be hotplug safe was
> > added into the PC specs the vendors use about 1998
> 
> I have a Abit-KT7 (Socket A, wo/RAID) motherboard that dies if you unplug
> the keyboard, but not the mouse. IIRC that's a mid-to late 2000
> motherboard.

I have a 2001 model Socket A motherboard that will reboot after several
seconds about once every hundred keyboard plugs.

It usually works...

weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Christian Kujau]

hi,

i am running 2.5 kernels, 2.5.70 right now and i always have this
keyboard problem: when booting, usb kbd and a ps/2 kbd gets installed.
but when i first try to use them, one keypress gives me 5+ chars.
so would have to login with "rrrrrooooooootttttt" as user name.

when i unplug/replug say the usb kbd, the usb kbd is working right,
while the ps/2 kbd is still behaving this weird. i have to unplug/replug
the ps/2 kbd too.

i *think* i read this thing in a FAQ already but i couldn't remember.

kernelnewbies.org or the lk-ml FAQ gave nothin, a chat on #kernelnewbies
made me believe something very strange is going on.

for clarification i want to repeat the problem in another way:

- one ps/2 keyboard *and* one usb keyboard is plugged into the PC (yes,
i have _2_ kbds)
- ps/2 and usb kbd support is compile statically into the kernel:

CONFIG_SERIO
CONFIG_SERIO_I8042
CONFIG_INPUT_KEYBOARD
CONFIG_KEYBOARD_ATKBD
CONFIG_USB_UHCI_HCD
CONFIG_USB_KBD

- the computer boots up, the kbd driver get loaded, i sit in front of
some login prompt (X or console)

- the usb kbd is only writing ttthhhiiiissss way.
- i try the ps/2 kbd, it is also writing only ttthhhhiiiisss way.
(i was able to write "root" in a sane way, but the password.....)
- i unplug the usb kbd and replug it --> i can use the usb kbd.
- the ps/2 is still behaving this weird, so i have to unplug/replug the
ps/2 kbd to use it, too.


i noticed the problem once with 2.5.65(?) on linux/alpha, with a single
ps/2 kbd connected. but the problem disappeared somehow.

Thank you for any hints,
Christian.

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Konstantin Kletschke]

Same here, well.

I use 2.5.70-mm3 and my PS2 Keyboard once swichted TO BIG CHARS. I
unplugged/plugged and it went complete mad, sound began too loop. I
unplugged and replugged, after a while it worked again...

Sometime a key is very fast repeated 10 to 20 times after pressed only
one.

On the other side, everything seems to be smooth and running fine :)

Konsti

-- 
2.5.70-mm3
Konstantin Kletschke <konsti@ludenkalle.de>, <konsti@ku-gbr.de>
GPG KeyID EF62FCEF
Fingerprint: 13C9 B16B 9844 EC15 CC2E  A080 1E69 3FDA EF62 FCEF
keulator.homelinux.org up 2:40, 23 users

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Andy Pfiffer]

On Sat, 2003-05-31 at 08:16, Konstantin Kletschke wrote:

> Sometime a key is very fast repeated 10 to 20 times after pressed only
> one.

I have seen this on one of two systems connected to a 4-port KVM
switch.  I started seeing it in 2.5.68 or 2.5.69.  The other system has
not demonstrated the super-fast repeat.

Andy

Re: weird keyboard with 2.5.70

[Wiktor Wodecki]

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On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 09:11:49AM -0700, Andy Pfiffer wrote:
> On Sat, 2003-05-31 at 08:16, Konstantin Kletschke wrote:
> 
> > Sometime a key is very fast repeated 10 to 20 times after pressed only
> > one.
> 
> I have seen this on one of two systems connected to a 4-port KVM
> switch.  I started seeing it in 2.5.68 or 2.5.69.  The other system has
> not demonstrated the super-fast repeat.

I see this on my ibm thinkpad T20 with 2.5.69. I manually raised my
kbdrate(1) settings and that helps. However when switching between X
and text-consoles it gets worse after a while.

-- 
Regards,

Wiktor Wodecki

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