Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[Boszormenyi Zoltan]

Hi,

is there a way to assign different keyboards to different vcs?
I would like to set up a machine that has 2 keyboards, 2 mice and
2 videocards and run XFree-4.x on both heads. The videocard/monitor and
mouse settings are easy to set up but I cannot find a device setting
for the keyboard in man XF86Config. How can I do it with mainline kernels?

After some googleing I found something called "backstreet ruby"
http://startx.times.lv/eng-faq.html
This gave me this info (howto in a nutshell):

1. Boot with kernel option "dumbcon=N" to activate N dummy console.
2. cat /proc/bus/input/devices gives the input devices, search for keyboard
    entries.
3. To assign a keyboard to a VT, feed the keyboard Phys= entry into
    a VT, e.g. echo "isa0060/serio0/input0" > /proc/bus/console/00/keyboard
4. Start the X server on the proper VT.

The functionality can be found at linuxconsole.sourceforge.net.
Will this be included into mainline near term? Say 2.6.[12]?
The ruby-2.6 is against 2.6.0-test9 so it's almost uptodate.

-- 
Best regards,
Zoltán Böszörményi

---------------------
What did Hussein say about his knife?
One in Bush worth two in the hand.

Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[Svetoslav Slavtchev]

Hi,

zb == Zoltán Böszörményi
< zb >
is there a way to assign different keyboards to different vcs?
I would like to set up a machine that has 2 keyboards, 2 mice and
2 videocards and run XFree-4.x on both heads. The videocard/monitor and
mouse settings are easy to set up but I cannot find a device setting
for the keyboard in man XF86Config. How can I do it with mainline kernels?
</ zb >

you can not do it with mainline kernel

you need both patched kernel and XFree, although the 
second might be skiped in case a similar functionality
added by the kernel patch is used 

< zb >
After some googleing I found something called "backstreet ruby"
http://startx.times.lv/eng-faq.html
</ zb >

check the entire documentation there
and visit the links section -> you'll get the big picture

for 2.6 most info is still on the linuxconsole ml archive

< zb >
This gave me this info (howto in a nutshell):

1. Boot with kernel option "dumbcon=N" to activate N dummy console.
</ zb >

mostly undocumented, but dumbcon= ... is not obligatory for 2.6,
you can also use multiple independent framebuffer consoles instead,
which is still work in progress

< zb >
2. cat /proc/bus/input/devices gives the input devices, search for keyboard
    entries.
3. To assign a keyboard to a VT, feed the keyboard Phys= entry into
    a VT, e.g. echo "isa0060/serio0/input0" > /proc/bus/console/00/keyboard
4. Start the X server on the proper VT.
</ zb >
 
you can configure hotplug to do this for you
and let a display manager start X for you,
but i'm not sure how well will this work with
multiple framebuffer consoles

< zb >
The functionality can be found at linuxconsole.sourceforge.net.
Will this be included into mainline near term? Say 2.6.[12]?
The ruby-2.6 is against 2.6.0-test9 so it's almost uptodate.
</ zb >

the ruby tree works with current 2.6 too
multiple framebuffer console is not yet polished
and the framebuffer drivers in vanilla 2.6 aren't
in very good shape too

i really doubt it will be included in the near term,
i think it  will be first merged in 2.7 
(hopefully right after it opens) and then it will 
be "backported" to 2.6, may be arround 2.6.1[0-9]

best,

svetljo

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Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[William Park]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 09:13:28AM +0000, Boszormenyi Zoltan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> is there a way to assign different keyboards to different vcs?
> I would like to set up a machine that has 2 keyboards, 2 mice and
> 2 videocards and run XFree-4.x on both heads. The videocard/monitor and
> mouse settings are easy to set up but I cannot find a device setting
> for the keyboard in man XF86Config. How can I do it with mainline kerne=
> ls?
> 
> After some googleing I found something called "backstreet ruby"
> http://startx.times.lv/eng-faq.html
> This gave me this info (howto in a nutshell):
> 
> 1. Boot with kernel option "dumbcon=N" to activate N dummy console.
> 2. cat /proc/bus/input/devices gives the input devices, search for keyb=
> oard
>    entries.
> 3. To assign a keyboard to a VT, feed the keyboard Phys= entry into
>    a VT, e.g. echo "isa0060/serio0/input0" > /proc/bus/console/00/keyb=
> oard
> 4. Start the X server on the proper VT.
> 
> The functionality can be found at linuxconsole.sourceforge.net.
> Will this be included into mainline near term? Say 2.6.[12]?
> The ruby-2.6 is against 2.6.0-test9 so it's almost uptodate.

Does it work?

I have 2 keyboard/mouse/video setup as well, but I followed 
    http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/multiuser/
by Miguel Freitas with 2.4.23 kernel, because you have to unload
'keybdev' USB module.  Kernel-2.6.0 doesn't seem to give me that choice.
In my XF86Config, I had to use
    Section "InputDevice" 
	Identifier	"USB Keyboard"
	Driver	"keyboard"
	Option	"Protocol"	"usbev"
	Option	"Device"	"/dev/input/event2"
	Option	"XkbRules"	"xfree86"
	Option	"XkbModel"	"pc104"
	Option	"XkbLayout"	"us"
    EndSection
for the USB keyboard.  Note the /dev/input/event2 and "Xkb*" lines --
they were necessary.

Both are mentioned in XFree-Local-multi-user-HOWTO.  Even though the
HOWTO is more for Backstreet Ruby, I couldn't make head or tail of it.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry@yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 

Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[Svetoslav Slavtchev]

Hi,

it does work, and you even can have multiple 
virtual consoles, and even on a single dual headed
Matrox G4xx/G550 although there are still some 
small/big :-)  issues 

may i ask what do you mean by that :

----
 Even though the HOWTO is more for Backstreet Ruby, 
 I couldn't make head or tail of it.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
----

asking cause i wrote the howto,
and i hardly get feedback

the one thing i know is, that it's simply too big ,
but i tried to cover everything and there is no other way :(

best,

svetljo


PS.

please CC me as i'm not subscribed to lkml

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Neu: Preissenkung für MMS und FreeMMS! http://www.gmx.net

Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[William Park]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 11:27:48PM +0100, Svetoslav Slavtchev wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> it does work, and you even can have multiple 
> virtual consoles, and even on a single dual headed
> Matrox G4xx/G550 although there are still some 
> small/big :-)  issues 
> 
> may i ask what do you mean by that :
> 
> ----
>  Even though the HOWTO is more for Backstreet Ruby, 
>  I couldn't make head or tail of it.
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ----
> 
> asking cause i wrote the howto,
> and i hardly get feedback
> 
> the one thing i know is, that it's simply too big ,
> but i tried to cover everything and there is no other way :(
> 
> best,
> 
> svetljo


For kernel-2.6.x, Ruby would be the only option.  So, I'll eventually
get my teeth into it.  But, I don't want to modify both kernel and X,
especially kernel.  If X doesn't work, I can use the old X.  But, if
kernel doesn't work, then I have to reboot.

> 
> 
> PS.
> 
> please CC me as i'm not subscribed to lkml

If you're not subscribed, how did you post to the mailing-list?

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry@yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 

Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[Svetoslav Slavtchev]

> On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 11:27:48PM +0100, Svetoslav Slavtchev wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > it does work, and you even can have multiple 
> > virtual consoles, and even on a single dual headed
> > Matrox G4xx/G550 although there are still some 
> > small/big :-)  issues 
> > 
> > may i ask what do you mean by that :
> > 
> > ----
> >  Even though the HOWTO is more for Backstreet Ruby, 
> >  I couldn't make head or tail of it.
> >  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > ----
> > 
> > asking cause i wrote the howto,
> > and i hardly get feedback
> > 
> > the one thing i know is, that it's simply too big ,
> > but i tried to cover everything and there is no other way :(
> > 
> > best,
> > 
> > svetljo
> 
> 
> For kernel-2.6.x, Ruby would be the only option.  

not really, there was a ? one liner ? fix
to make the kernel ignore usb keyboards
so you can still use Miguel's solution

>So, I'll eventually
> get my teeth into it.  But, I don't want to modify both kernel and X,
> especially kernel.  If X doesn't work, I can use the old X.  But, if
> kernel doesn't work, then I have to reboot.

if you just want muliple X users bruby/ ruby should work as stable as 2.4
/2.6 
(works at least for 20-25 people i helped, reading the howto and getting it
up),

but if you want multiple virtual terminals, you'll have to experiment :-)
and read a lot the linuxconsole ml, as it's not yet documented 

i really don't see what's the problem with installing XFree, 
it's just another 2mb binary, and it has better stability for most 
video cards, there are some that don't need it, so
it's up to you to decide " go for the stable solution or experiment"

> > 
> > 
> > PS.
> > 
> > please CC me as i'm not subscribed to lkml
> 
> If you're not subscribed, how did you post to the mailing-list?
> 

just send a mail to linux-kernel (at) vger.kernel.org,
you don't have to be subscribed to post to lkml
/* thanks god */

best,

svetljo


-- 
+++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++
Neu: Preissenkung für MMS und FreeMMS! http://www.gmx.net

Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[William Park]

On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 12:09:05AM +0100, Svetoslav Slavtchev wrote:
> if you just want muliple X users bruby/ ruby should work as stable as
> 2.4 /2.6 (works at least for 20-25 people i helped, reading the howto
> and getting it up),
> 
> but if you want multiple virtual terminals, you'll have to experiment :-)
> and read a lot the linuxconsole ml, as it's not yet documented 

Multiple X users (via xdm login) is what I'm looking for.  X-terminal is
the canonical answer.  In the light of recent development in PXE support
which effectively eliminated third-party packages like Etherboot,
Netboot, Rom-a-matic, and LTSP,  I was wondering if it's possible to go
the next logical step and eliminate motherboard/case as well.

This would be ideal for home market, where you want multiple users (ie.
kids) but with only one PC.  Sell it as "Linux Mainframe"... :-)

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry@yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 

Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[Svetoslav Slavtchev]

> On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 12:09:05AM +0100, Svetoslav Slavtchev wrote:
> > if you just want muliple X users bruby/ ruby should work as stable as
> > 2.4 /2.6 (works at least for 20-25 people i helped, reading the howto
> > and getting it up),
> > 
> > but if you want multiple virtual terminals, you'll have to experiment
> :-)
> > and read a lot the linuxconsole ml, as it's not yet documented 
> 
> Multiple X users (via xdm login) is what I'm looking for.  X-terminal is
> the canonical answer.  In the light of recent development in PXE support
> which effectively eliminated third-party packages like Etherboot,
> Netboot, Rom-a-matic, and LTSP,  I was wondering if it's possible to go
> the next logical step and eliminate motherboard/case as well.
> 
> This would be ideal for home market, where you want multiple users (ie.
> kids) but with only one PC.  Sell it as "Linux Mainframe"... :-)

it should be doable, although it would be easier to setup
if all the ruby PC's used a basic local installation and load everything
else
from a LTSP server

i wanted to try it, but i own a single PC, so ...

best,

svetljo

-- 
+++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++
Neu: Preissenkung für MMS und FreeMMS! http://www.gmx.net

Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[John Bradford]

Quote from William Park <opengeometry@yahoo.ca>:
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 12:09:05AM +0100, Svetoslav Slavtchev wrote:
> > if you just want muliple X users bruby/ ruby should work as stable as
> > 2.4 /2.6 (works at least for 20-25 people i helped, reading the howto
> > and getting it up),
> > 
> > but if you want multiple virtual terminals, you'll have to experiment :-)
> > and read a lot the linuxconsole ml, as it's not yet documented 
> 
> Multiple X users (via xdm login) is what I'm looking for.  X-terminal is
> the canonical answer.  In the light of recent development in PXE support
> which effectively eliminated third-party packages like Etherboot,
> Netboot, Rom-a-matic, and LTSP,  I was wondering if it's possible to go
> the next logical step and eliminate motherboard/case as well.
> 
> This would be ideal for home market, where you want multiple users (ie.
> kids) but with only one PC.  Sell it as "Linux Mainframe"... :-)

Search the archives - this comes up every few months on LKML.

John.

Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[Svetoslav Slavtchev]

> Quote from William Park <opengeometry@yahoo.ca>:
> > On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 12:09:05AM +0100, Svetoslav Slavtchev wrote:
> > > if you just want muliple X users bruby/ ruby should work as stable as
> > > 2.4 /2.6 (works at least for 20-25 people i helped, reading the howto
> > > and getting it up),
> > > 
> > > but if you want multiple virtual terminals, you'll have to experiment
> :-)
> > > and read a lot the linuxconsole ml, as it's not yet documented 
> > 
> > Multiple X users (via xdm login) is what I'm looking for.  X-terminal is
> > the canonical answer.  In the light of recent development in PXE support
> > which effectively eliminated third-party packages like Etherboot,
> > Netboot, Rom-a-matic, and LTSP,  I was wondering if it's possible to go
> > the next logical step and eliminate motherboard/case as well.
> > 
> > This would be ideal for home market, where you want multiple users (ie.
> > kids) but with only one PC.  Sell it as "Linux Mainframe"... :-)
> 
> Search the archives - this comes up every few months on LKML.
> 
> John.
> 

with the small difference that now it's doable,
and previously mostly impossible

/* ya i know that Miguel solution exist quite a long time
 * already, but it's a bit hard to use it on systems with more
 * then 2 users and configuring the input devices is not easy,
 * optimal, and tere is no way to get multi-user virtual consoles
 * 
 * ruby doesn't have this issues
 */

best,

svetljo

-- 
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Neu: Preissenkung für MMS und FreeMMS! http://www.gmx.net

Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[Helge Hafting]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 04:43:10PM -0500, William Park wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 09:13:28AM +0000, Boszormenyi Zoltan wrote:
> > 
> > The functionality can be found at linuxconsole.sourceforge.net.
> > Will this be included into mainline near term? Say 2.6.[12]?
> > The ruby-2.6 is against 2.6.0-test9 so it's almost uptodate.
> 
> Does it work?
> 
It works with 2.6.0-test11.  Prepare a kernel source tree,
check out ruby from cvs, copy the ruby-2.6 parts into
the kernel tree.

I run my home machine this way:
2 standard keyboards, one connected to the keyboard port and
another connected to the ps2 mouse port.
2 mice, both connected to serial ports.
2 screens, connected to the two outputs of a matrox G550.

One xserver runs using standard mga driver, another xserver
uses the unaccelerated framebuffer driver on the framebuffer
displayed on the second screen.

The screen with the accelerated server also have accelerated opengl.
The other screen uses software opengl, fast enough for
frozen-bubble and rocks&diamonds, but not for tuxracer.

xdm manages both screens, so any user can log in at either screen.

The G550 isn't ideal for this, because resetting the accelerated xserver
causes the framebuffer screen to blink (accelerated xserver 
disturbs the other display while setting resolution.)
This is a software problem though.

It seems possible to run accelerated servers at both screens as
long as only one uses opengl.  I haven't bothered yet because
unaccelerated 2D performance seems fine for all purposes with
dual 333MHz processors.  


Using two video cards AGP+PCI or PCI+PCI solves the interactions between
the two displays, but then you need a modified xserver. (Std.
Xserver turns off video cards it donesn't use, without worrying
about other servers using the other card.)  

Letting two servers use a single card don't have this problem,
but it could possibly have other problems.

Helge Hafting

Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[William Park]

On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 02:14:05PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 04:43:10PM -0500, William Park wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 09:13:28AM +0000, Boszormenyi Zoltan wrote:
> > > 
> > > The functionality can be found at linuxconsole.sourceforge.net.
> > > Will this be included into mainline near term? Say 2.6.[12]?
> > > The ruby-2.6 is against 2.6.0-test9 so it's almost uptodate.
> > 
> > Does it work?
> > 
> It works with 2.6.0-test11.  Prepare a kernel source tree,
> check out ruby from cvs, copy the ruby-2.6 parts into
> the kernel tree.
> 
> I run my home machine this way:
> 2 standard keyboards, one connected to the keyboard port and
> another connected to the ps2 mouse port.

Plug PS/2 keyboard into PS/2 mouse port???  I didn't know you can do
that.

> 2 mice, both connected to serial ports.
> 2 screens, connected to the two outputs of a matrox G550.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry@yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 

Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[Helge Hafting]

William Park wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 02:14:05PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote:
[...]
>>I run my home machine this way:
>>2 standard keyboards, one connected to the keyboard port and
>>another connected to the ps2 mouse port.
> 
> 
> Plug PS/2 keyboard into PS/2 mouse port???  I didn't know you can do
> that.

The two ports are the same hardware, which makes sense as they
serve the same purpose - serial communication with a slow device.

The common case is one keyboard and one mouse, but two mice
or two keyboards works just as well as long as the software
expects it.  Linux 2.6 have no problems with this.

You need the ruby patch to use the two keyboards independently,
the standard kernel merges input from all attached keyboards into
one console.

You may attach a lot more keyboards using usb keyboards.

Helge Hafting

Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

> > > > The functionality can be found at linuxconsole.sourceforge.net.
> > > > Will this be included into mainline near term? Say 2.6.[12]?
> > > > The ruby-2.6 is against 2.6.0-test9 so it's almost uptodate.
> > > 
> > > Does it work?
> > > 
> > It works with 2.6.0-test11.  Prepare a kernel source tree,
> > check out ruby from cvs, copy the ruby-2.6 parts into
> > the kernel tree.
> > 
> > I run my home machine this way:
> > 2 standard keyboards, one connected to the keyboard port and
> > another connected to the ps2 mouse port.
> 
> Plug PS/2 keyboard into PS/2 mouse port???  I didn't know you can do
> that.

Yep, that works, with proper software.
								Pavel
-- 
When do you have a heart between your knees?
[Johanka's followup: and *two* hearts?]

Re: Multiple keyboard/monitor vs linux-2.6?

[William Park]

On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 01:18:14PM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote:
> William Park wrote:
> >Plug PS/2 keyboard into PS/2 mouse port???  I didn't know you can do
> >that.
> 
> The two ports are the same hardware, which makes sense as they serve
> the same purpose - serial communication with a slow device.
> 
> The common case is one keyboard and one mouse, but two mice or two
> keyboards works just as well as long as the software expects it.
> Linux 2.6 have no problems with this.
> 
> You need the ruby patch to use the two keyboards independently, the
> standard kernel merges input from all attached keyboards into one
> console.
> 
> You may attach a lot more keyboards using usb keyboards.

Just tried it... works on 2.6, but not on 2.4.23.  Damn, I didn't have
to out and pay real money for USB keyboard/mouse. :-)

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry@yahoo.ca>
Linux solution for data management and processing.