Re: [POT] Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

Re: [POT] Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[Roy Murphy]

'Twas brillig when Sebastien Cabaniols scrobe:
>With the availability of XFS,JFS,ext3 and ReiserFS I am a 
>little lost and I don't know which one I should use for entreprise 
>class servers. 

Well, the Linus Torvalds filesystem (ltfs for short) is a highly developed,
version control filesystem, but it still has a few shortcomings.

When saving a file to ltfs, it sometimes suggests that you should do it a different
way.  The ltfs is very particular about how things should be done.

Often, when saving a file, it is dropped without any notification.  Experienced
users of the ltfs follow the mantra "submit early and submit often".  They repeatedly
resave their files hoping that one of them will be accepted into a "version"
that does get saved to disk.

Several forks of the ltfs (i.e the Alan Cox filesystem -- acfs and the Anread
Arcangeli filesystem -- aafs) are a little better about saving files, but each
of them has its own idea about which files are worthy of being saved.

While these advanced filesystems hold great promise for the future, they should
probably not be used in a production server due to these failings.  In fact,
one user of the acfs, Telsa Cox, reports that the acfs often dosn't work at
all before noon local time.

YMMV.
 

[OT] Re: Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[Matt Bernstein]

At 11:21 -0500 Roy Murphy wrote:

>'Twas brillig when Sebastien Cabaniols scrobe:
>>With the availability of XFS,JFS,ext3 and ReiserFS I am a
>>little lost and I don't know which one I should use for entreprise
>>class servers.
>
>Well, the Linus Torvalds filesystem (ltfs for short) is a highly developed,
>version control filesystem, but it still has a few shortcomings.

Wrong! If you're Linus you're allowed to declare that backups are for wimps,
and that if you're code is worth the bytes it was written with, it will be
mirrored all over the world. So there's no journal except google.com :)

Re: [OT] Re: Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[David Woodhouse]

matt@theBachChoir.org.uk said:
>  Wrong! If you're Linus you're allowed to declare that backups are for
> wimps, and that if you're code is worth the bytes it was written with,
> it will be mirrored all over the world. So there's no journal except
> google.com :)

Nah. Linus gets to play with cute embedded toys. It'd have to be JFFS2 :)

--
dwmw2

[POT] Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[sebastien.cabaniols]

Hello lkml,

With the availability of XFS,JFS,ext3 and ReiserFS I am a 
little
lost and I don't know which one I should use for entreprise 
class
servers.

In terms of intergration into the kernel, functionnalities, 
stability
and performance which one is the best for entreprise class 
servers

I guess the begining of the answer is: it depends... on what 
you are doing

So, what do you think if

I want a database server
or
a supercomputer (HPC use)
or
a Linux KDE/GNOME desktop

Thanks for your help, links and experience.


Sebastien CABANIOLS



"Ce message vous est envoyé par laposte.net - web : www.laposte.net/  minitel : 3615 LAPOSTENET (0,84 F TTC la minute)/ téléphone : 08 92 68 13 50 (2,21 F TTC la minute)"

Re: [POT] Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[Dave Cinege]

On Wednesday 03 October 2001 8:00, sebastien.cabaniols wrote:
> Hello lkml,
>
> With the availability of XFS,JFS,ext3 and ReiserFS I am a
> little
> lost and I don't know which one I should use for entreprise
> class
> servers.

I use Reiserfs on everything now, including a 13 drive Fiber Channel 
SAN with 3 hosts and multiple levels of Software RAID between them.

It is as fast as ext2, and in some case much faster. (IE rm 10K+ files in ~2 
seconds) FYI I Bonnie 70MB/s on 6 7200rpm drives in RAID 0. (64k blocks)

Keeping up with the 'best' reiserfs patch set can be a little bit of a
chore. (However it looks like we're coming to the end of that with 2.4.10)

Never used ext3. From what I did read about it, it didn't excite me.
The others I've yet to see a mature enough version to actually use, and 
considering Reiserfs, don't see a reason to try them.

Dave

-- 
The time is now 22:19 (Totalitarian)  -  http://www.ccops.org/clock.html

Re: [POT] Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[Sean Hunter]

I use ext3 on a couple of servers and a couple of laptops.  I think which fs is
best for you will depend enormously on the intended use of the machines and
your own expectations.  A mail and dns server that I operate running ext3 has
been very happy since conversion, and has definitely benefitted.

I feel I get the benefit of no more fscks and fast operations on "-o
sync"-mounted filesystems without (IMO) exposing the box to immature code that
you might see in less conservative "experimental" filesystem options.

I personally feel more comfortable with the stability and robustness criteria
of the ext3 developers than some others.  If you want a very fast filesystem or
one that handles very large numbers of files very well, your choice may well be
different from mine.

I quite like my filesystems to be boring. :)

Sean

On Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 10:33:17AM -0400, Dave Cinege wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 October 2001 8:00, sebastien.cabaniols wrote:
> > Hello lkml,
> >
> > With the availability of XFS,JFS,ext3 and ReiserFS I am a
> > little
> > lost and I don't know which one I should use for entreprise
> > class
> > servers.
> 
> I use Reiserfs on everything now, including a 13 drive Fiber Channel 
> SAN with 3 hosts and multiple levels of Software RAID between them.
> 
> It is as fast as ext2, and in some case much faster. (IE rm 10K+ files in ~2 
> seconds) FYI I Bonnie 70MB/s on 6 7200rpm drives in RAID 0. (64k blocks)
> 
> Keeping up with the 'best' reiserfs patch set can be a little bit of a
> chore. (However it looks like we're coming to the end of that with 2.4.10)
> 
> Never used ext3. From what I did read about it, it didn't excite me.
> The others I've yet to see a mature enough version to actually use, and 
> considering Reiserfs, don't see a reason to try them.
> 
> Dave
> 
> -- 
> The time is now 22:19 (Totalitarian)  -  http://www.ccops.org/clock.html
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 

Re: [POT] Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[Fabbione]

Hi Sebastien,
		I had the possiblity to poke around with ext3 and reiserfs,
but endup converting all my machine to ext3 for various reasons.

First of all we ext3 you don't need to re-format your partitions, so no
mkreiserfs or mke3fs
but a simple tune2fs. No need to backup all your data, rebuild on top of
the new fs and
reinstall and....

When I was testing reiserfs (it was atleast a couple of months ago) I
got very bad performance
but I know that they have improved performance within the 2.4.10 release
of the kernel
that unfortunatly seems having many other problems.

Fabbione

"sebastien.cabaniols" wrote:
> 
> Hello lkml,
> 
> With the availability of XFS,JFS,ext3 and ReiserFS I am a
> little
> lost and I don't know which one I should use for entreprise
> class
> servers.

-- 
Debian GNU/Linux Unstable Kernel 2.4.9
fabbione on irc.atdot.it #coredump #kchat | fabbione@fabbione.net

Re: [POT] Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[Bernd Eckenfels]

In article <GKMPCZ$IZh2dKhbICnp0WDXKHB6iO7OKoHwqOxmqj9XfriOC7PjHiIDA6bHi6xrImT@laposte.net> you wrote:
> With the availability of XFS,JFS,ext3 and ReiserFS I am a 
> little
> lost and I don't know which one I should use for entreprise 
> class
> servers.

In former versions of ReiserFS you had a weak support for fschk. And since a
lot of bugs and heavy load triggered this problem regularly, it was not
awise idea to use Reiser. Things are reported to have increased, but I do
not have any first hand experineces since then.

Personally I think xfs is a very mature Journaling File System. A bit
annoying is, that the CVS tree is hard to track from SGI. I have reports
from heavyly loaded servers that it performs very well (i.e. newsspool).

ext3 is the alternative, cause of its compatibility to ext2. But I am not
sure, if this is good or bad, since it has not increaesed some of the
performance issues of the ext2 structure, afaik.

I have no experience with JFS, IBM seems to missed a opportunity to have
large community support.

GFS as a general purpose filesystem may need some more tweaking, but it's
cluster properties are great for enterprise systems.

Greetings
Bernd

Re: [POT] Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[Luigi Genoni]

I would bet that Linus is using ext2 :).

apart of this, everyone will give you difefrent suggestions.

basically ext3 can journal data, but this way is slower, and is a simple
ext2 with journal.

reiserFS is really interesting, is the most space effective, thanx to
B*Tree and the advanced hash techniques, but
actually journals just meta-data. The real point is that
reiserFS does a tree traversal every time it writes  4k block, and the it
puts one pointer at time inside of the tree. So the tree is balanced every
4k write, That is bad for very large files.

jfs, should be quite stable. is a very interesting technology, and
i know it very well from AIX (but the linux one comes from OS2).
it's very solid, quite fast, can journal also data (??).
The way jfs manages free data block group is very smart, altought it is
not an extent based FS (but leaf node are piece of bitmap instead of
extent).

xfs, I dislike the way they are isering a kind of double VFS, but i
understand that Irix buffer cache was developed with some xfs features in
mind, and so they need this pagebuf module, but i dislike it. I also
dislike the concept of per-group quota, but this is just my taste.
Anyway, I have to admit that on very big file xfs is very efficient.
On Irix 6.4 i found it to be a little slow with small files.

That is just my opinion, I am wayting for reiserFS 4.

On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, sebastien.cabaniols wrote:

> Hello lkml,
>
> With the availability of XFS,JFS,ext3 and ReiserFS I am a
> little
> lost and I don't know which one I should use for entreprise
> class
> servers.
>
> In terms of intergration into the kernel, functionnalities,
> stability
> and performance which one is the best for entreprise class
> servers
>
> I guess the begining of the answer is: it depends... on what
> you are doing
>
> So, what do you think if
>
> I want a database server
reiserFS
> or
> a supercomputer (HPC use)
jfs / ext3
> or
> a Linux KDE/GNOME desktop
ext2 :)
>
Luigi

Re: [POT] Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[Andrew Ip]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1614 bytes --]

For those who are interested on trying out journalling filesystem.  I have
made a kernel rpm which supports XFS, JFS, Ext3 and ReiserFS.  You can get it
at ftp://ftp.cwlinux.com/pub/downloads/journaling_fs/kernel.  Comments are
welcome.

-Andrew

On Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 02:00:35PM +0200, sebastien.cabaniols wrote:
> Hello lkml,
> 
> With the availability of XFS,JFS,ext3 and ReiserFS I am a 
> little
> lost and I don't know which one I should use for entreprise 
> class
> servers.
> 
> In terms of intergration into the kernel, functionnalities, 
> stability
> and performance which one is the best for entreprise class 
> servers
> 
> I guess the begining of the answer is: it depends... on what 
> you are doing
> 
> So, what do you think if
> 
> I want a database server
> or
> a supercomputer (HPC use)
> or
> a Linux KDE/GNOME desktop
> 
> Thanks for your help, links and experience.
> 
> 
> Sebastien CABANIOLS
> 
> 
> 
> "Ce message vous est envoyé par laposte.net - web : www.laposte.net/  minitel : 3615 LAPOSTENET (0,84 F TTC la minute)/ téléphone : 08 92 68 13 50 (2,21 F TTC la minute)"
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

-- 
Andrew Ip
Email:  aip@cwlinux.com
Tel:    (852) 2542 2046
Fax:    (852) 2542 2046
Mobile: (852) 9201 9866

Cwlinux Limited
18B Tower 1 Tern Centre,
237 Queen's Road Central,
Hong Kong.


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 232 bytes --]

Re: [POT] Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[Constantin Loizides]

Hallo Sebastien,


> In terms of intergration into the kernel, functionnalities,
> stability and performance which one is the best for entreprise class
> servers
 
You might want to take a look at

http://www.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/~loizides/reiserfs/

where I try to answer the one of your criteria, namely performance,
and how performance behaves over time, eg. when the file system
is heavily used...


The focus is on ReiserFS compared to Ext2, though I plan to set up
some tests with XFS and JFS soon (to get the results before end
of october)



Constantin

Re: [POT] Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[Nathan Straz]

On Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 02:00:35PM +0200, sebastien.cabaniols wrote:
> With the availability of XFS,JFS,ext3 and ReiserFS I am a little lost
> and I don't know which one I should use for entreprise class servers.

I'd recommend reading:

       http://www.mandrakeforum.com/article.php?sid=1212&lang=en

It's an article in the Mandrake forums concerning ext3, JFS, XFS, and
ReiserFS, all of which are in Mandrake 8.1.


> In terms of intergration into the kernel, functionnalities, stability
> and performance which one is the best for entreprise class servers

For enterprise stuff, I would recommend XFS based on the tools it
provides.  XFS has a complete set of tools for dumping XFS, repairing a
broken file system (should it every break), and debugging should you
find something wrong with it.  

-- 
Nate Straz                                              nstraz@sgi.com
sgi, inc                                           http://www.sgi.com/
Linux Test Project                                  http://ltp.sf.net/

Re: [POT] Which journalised filesystem uses Linus Torvalds ?

[Hristo Grigorov]

Heh..

Choosing the best FS is like choosing the best Linux distribution or choosing
the best women for the rest of your life, as you like.. :) 

Each FS implementation has its strengths and weaknesses. I read that article
and come to the opinion that every peace of software is more or less PnP 
(plug-n-pray). You know, every code has bugs and the worst of them are never
found :)

Hristo.

On Thursday 04 October 2001 19:30, Nathan Straz wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 02:00:35PM +0200, sebastien.cabaniols wrote:
> > With the availability of XFS,JFS,ext3 and ReiserFS I am a little lost
> > and I don't know which one I should use for entreprise class servers.
>
> I'd recommend reading:
>
>        http://www.mandrakeforum.com/article.php?sid=1212&lang=en
>
> It's an article in the Mandrake forums concerning ext3, JFS, XFS, and
> ReiserFS, all of which are in Mandrake 8.1.
>
> > In terms of intergration into the kernel, functionnalities, stability
> > and performance which one is the best for entreprise class servers
>
> For enterprise stuff, I would recommend XFS based on the tools it
> provides.  XFS has a complete set of tools for dumping XFS, repairing a
> broken file system (should it every break), and debugging should you
> find something wrong with it.