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From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@pobox.com>
To: Marc Lehmann <pcg@schmorp.de>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>,
	viro@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk,
	Linux kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:26:52 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4031197C.1040909@pobox.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0402161040310.30742@home.osdl.org>

Linus Torvalds wrote:
> In short: filenames are byte streams. Nothing more. They don't even have a 
> "character set". They literally are just a series of bytes.
> 
> And when I say that you have to talk to the kernel using UTF-8, I'm only 
> claiming that it is the only sane way to encode extended characters in a 
> byte stream. Nothing more.


Nod.  Maybe it helps Marc to point out the key difference between 
characters and bytes, in UTF8.

In UTF8, the number of characters in a string is less-than-or-equal-to 
the number of bytes in the string.

And the kernel just cares about bytes.

This is the whole benefit to UTF8, right here in this thread.  UTF8 was 
designed such that ten-year-old C code using standard C strings would 
function just fine.  No need to rip up large swaths of your code just to 
call multi-byte versions of the standard string functions.  Most code 
that doesn't deal with locale-specific details like uppercase/lowercase 
Just Works(tm).

	Jeff




  reply	other threads:[~2004-02-16 19:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 120+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <04Feb13.163954est.41760@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>
2004-02-14 14:27 ` JFS default behavior Nicolas Mailhot
2004-02-14 15:40   ` viro
2004-02-14 17:47     ` Nicolas Mailhot
2004-02-14 17:59       ` Nicolas Mailhot
2004-02-14 23:06     ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-14 23:29       ` viro
2004-02-15  0:07         ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-15  2:41           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-15  3:33             ` Matthias Urlichs
2004-02-15  4:04               ` viro
2004-02-15  9:48                 ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-15 18:26                 ` yodaiken
2004-02-18  2:48               ` Unicode normalization (userspace issue, but what the heck) H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-20  9:48                 ` Matthias Urlichs
2004-02-16 15:05             ` stty utf8 Jamie Lokier
2004-02-16 16:10               ` Gerd Knorr
2004-02-16 22:03               ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-16 22:17                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-16 22:04               ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-16 18:36             ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API (was: Re: JFS default behavior) Marc Lehmann
2004-02-16 18:49               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-16 19:26                 ` Jeff Garzik [this message]
2004-02-16 19:48                   ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API John Bradford
2004-02-16 19:48                     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-16 20:20                       ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-16 20:26                         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18  2:49                         ` Rob Landley
2004-02-16 20:21                       ` bert hubert
2004-02-16 20:33                         ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-18  2:58                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18  3:13                           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18  3:22                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18  3:30                               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18  5:30                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18 10:29                                   ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-18 11:49                                     ` Tomas Szepe
2004-02-18 11:59                                       ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-18 12:05                                         ` Tomas Szepe
2004-02-18 12:34                                           ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-18 15:35                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18 19:47                                     ` Tomas Szepe
2004-02-18 20:01                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18 21:22                                         ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-18 21:42                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18 11:24                               ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-18 11:33                             ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-18 16:47                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18 19:59                               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18 20:08                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-18  7:25                           ` bert hubert
2004-02-16 20:16                     ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-16 20:20                       ` Jeff Garzik
2004-02-16 21:10                       ` viro
2004-02-17  7:18                       ` jw schultz
2004-02-17  7:42                       ` Nick Piggin
2004-02-16 20:03                 ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API (was: Re: JFS default behavior) Marc Lehmann
2004-02-16 20:23                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-16 20:58                     ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-17 14:12                       ` Dave Kleikamp
2004-02-16 22:26                     ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-16 22:40                       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-16 22:52                         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 13:15                           ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17  7:14                         ` Lehmann 
2004-02-17 11:20                           ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API Helge Hafting
2004-02-17 15:56                           ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API (was: Re: JFS default behavior) Linus Torvalds
     [not found]                             ` <20040217161111.GE8231@schmorp.de>
2004-02-17 16:32                               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 16:46                                 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 19:00                                   ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API Måns Rullgård
2004-02-17 20:57                                     ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 21:06                                       ` Alex Belits
2004-02-17 21:47                                         ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-22 15:32                                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2004-02-22 16:28                                             ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-22 21:53                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2004-02-18  7:23                                         ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-17 21:23                                       ` Matthew Kirkwood
2004-02-18 13:11                                   ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API (was: Re: JFS default behavior) Matthew Garrett
2004-02-17 16:52                                 ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-17 16:54                                 ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API Stefan Smietanowski
2004-02-18  1:27                                   ` Hans Reiser
2004-02-18  2:08                                     ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-18 11:06                                       ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 20:37                                 ` UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API (was: Re: JFS default behavior) Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-17 16:36                             ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 17:52                               ` viro
2004-02-17 19:29                                 ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 19:45                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 20:30                                     ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 20:49                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 21:17                                         ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 19:51                                   ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 19:53                                   ` viro
2004-02-17 20:35                                     ` John Bradford
2004-02-17 20:40                                       ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 20:50                                         ` John Bradford
2004-02-17 21:04                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 21:16                                             ` John Bradford
2004-02-17 21:21                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-18  0:52                                                 ` John Bradford
2004-02-17 22:50                                               ` Robin Rosenberg
2004-02-18  6:48                                             ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-17 20:47                                       ` viro
2004-02-17 20:53                                         ` John Bradford
2004-02-17 20:59                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 21:06                                         ` John Bradford
2004-02-17 21:42                                         ` Alex Belits
2004-02-18  6:56                                           ` Marc Lehmann
2004-02-18 20:37                                             ` Alex Belits
2004-02-18  3:11                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-17 20:38                                     ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-18  3:07                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-21 13:54                             ` Pavel Machek
2004-02-22 20:09                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-02-17  1:24                   ` Alex Belits
2004-02-17 21:09                     ` Jamie Lokier
2004-02-17 21:48                       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-02-17 22:19                       ` Alex Belits
2004-02-23 11:35 UTF-8 practically vs. theoretically in the VFS API Norman Diamond
     [not found] ` <fa.ip45pqg.i26oru@ifi.uio.no>
2004-02-23 19:13   ` Junio C Hamano

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