Insults in the kernel-sources

Insults in the kernel-sources

[Tobias Hirning]

Hi people,
have you ever tried a 
grep "insult" -i -r ./*
 in the sourcetree of the kernel?
(insult must be replaced by an insult)
Haven't?
So do and think about, because the you can find to much of insults in 
the sources.
Tobias

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Måns Rullgård]

Tobias Hirning <Tobias.Hirning@gmx.de> writes:

> Hi people,
> have you ever tried a 
> grep "insult" -i -r ./*
>  in the sourcetree of the kernel?
> (insult must be replaced by an insult)
> Haven't?
> So do and think about, because the you can find to much of insults in 
> the sources.

This is because some lazy hardware devices will not function properly
unless put in an angry state.  Insulting them is the easiest way to do
this.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@kth.se

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[areversat]

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Le jeu 10/06/2004 à 21:02, Måns Rullgård a écrit :
> Tobias Hirning <Tobias.Hirning@gmx.de> writes:
> 
> > Hi people,
> > have you ever tried a 
> > grep "insult" -i -r ./*
> >  in the sourcetree of the kernel?
> > (insult must be replaced by an insult)
> > Haven't?
> > So do and think about, because the you can find to much of insults in 
> > the sources.
> 
> This is because some lazy hardware devices will not function properly
> unless put in an angry state.  Insulting them is the easiest way to do
> this.
A warning should be put somewhere, in the Readme for example. Like
"Warning : explicit source code comments" maybe the source code should
be rated (PG13?)
-- 
Pour trouver les limites du possible il faut tenter l'impossible.

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Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Leon Woestenberg]

Hello Tobias,

Tobias Hirning wrote:
> have you ever tried a 
> grep "insult" -i -r ./*
>  in the sourcetree of the kernel?
> (insult must be replaced by an insult)
> Haven't?
> So do and think about, because the you can find to much of insults in 
> the sources.

This is a feature. I makes reading the source code enjoyable even for
people who do not know sh*t about C programming. And that's not an
insult :-)

I think some of the insults need updating though. We do not want to
support old insults (although Linux is well-known for excellent support 
for legacy entities).

Regards,

Leon.

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Richard B. Johnson]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Tobias Hirning wrote:

> Hi people,
> have you ever tried a
> grep "insult" -i -r ./*
>  in the sourcetree of the kernel?
> (insult must be replaced by an insult)
> Haven't?
> So do and think about, because the you can find to much of insults in
> the sources.
> Tobias
> -

Insult???  Do you mean "bad words???" Who defines what words are
"good" or what words are "bad"?

Or maybe you just learned how to use `grep` and you want to
dazzle us all??

Cheers,
Dick Johnson
Penguin : Linux version 2.4.26 on an i686 machine (5570.56 BogoMips).
            Note 96.31% of all statistics are fiction.

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[alan]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Richard B. Johnson wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Tobias Hirning wrote:
> 
> > Hi people,
> > have you ever tried a
> > grep "insult" -i -r ./*
> >  in the sourcetree of the kernel?
> > (insult must be replaced by an insult)
> > Haven't?
> > So do and think about, because the you can find to much of insults in
> > the sources.
> > Tobias
> > -
> 
> Insult???  Do you mean "bad words???" Who defines what words are
> "good" or what words are "bad"?
> 
> Or maybe you just learned how to use `grep` and you want to
> dazzle us all??

Isn't this a distraction that comes up about once a year?  Someone 
bitching about the comments in the kernel source...

Turns out the Microsoft code has just as much profanity, if not more, than 
the Linux kernel source.  (Of course, they have more to swear about...)

I am more concerned about how Linus is going to keep working now that he 
is moving to someplace with good beer. 

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Richard B. Johnson]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, alan wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Richard B. Johnson wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Tobias Hirning wrote:
> >
> > > Hi people,
> > > have you ever tried a
> > > grep "insult" -i -r ./*
> > >  in the sourcetree of the kernel?
> > > (insult must be replaced by an insult)
> > > Haven't?
> > > So do and think about, because the you can find to much of insults in
> > > the sources.
> > > Tobias
> > > -
> >
> > Insult???  Do you mean "bad words???" Who defines what words are
> > "good" or what words are "bad"?
> >
> > Or maybe you just learned how to use `grep` and you want to
> > dazzle us all??
>
> Isn't this a distraction that comes up about once a year?  Someone
> bitching about the comments in the kernel source...
>
> Turns out the Microsoft code has just as much profanity, if not more, than
> the Linux kernel source.  (Of course, they have more to swear about...)
>
> I am more concerned about how Linus is going to keep working now that he
> is moving to someplace with good beer.
>

And it's closer to the devil's den.

Cheers,
Dick Johnson
Penguin : Linux version 2.4.26 on an i686 machine (5570.56 BogoMips).
            Note 96.31% of all statistics are fiction.

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[walt]

alan wrote:

> Turns out the Microsoft code has just as much profanity, if not more, than 
> the Linux kernel source.  (Of course, they have more to swear about...)

Not that I doubt you for one second -- but I'd like to examine the M$ source
code for myself if you don't mind.  Only for the purpose of verifying your
somewhat unusual claim, naturally.

Oh, BTW, where can I find their source code...

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[alan]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, walt wrote:

> alan wrote:
> 
> > Turns out the Microsoft code has just as much profanity, if not more, than 
> > the Linux kernel source.  (Of course, they have more to swear about...)
> 
> Not that I doubt you for one second -- but I'd like to examine the M$ source
> code for myself if you don't mind.  Only for the purpose of verifying your
> somewhat unusual claim, naturally.
> 
> Oh, BTW, where can I find their source code...

The M$ swearwords was widely reported by the press after the source code 
leakage.

You might still be able to find it on one of the file sharing networks.

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Richard B. Johnson]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, alan wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, walt wrote:
>
> > alan wrote:
> >
> > > Turns out the Microsoft code has just as much profanity, if not more, than
> > > the Linux kernel source.  (Of course, they have more to swear about...)
> >
> > Not that I doubt you for one second -- but I'd like to examine the M$ source
> > code for myself if you don't mind.  Only for the purpose of verifying your
> > somewhat unusual claim, naturally.
> >
> > Oh, BTW, where can I find their source code...
>
> The M$ swearwords was widely reported by the press after the source code
> leakage.
>
> You might still be able to find it on one of the file sharing networks.
>

Yes. I recall is was something like:

10 IF MID$(LEFT$(A$,3), B$) THEN GOTO 20 ELSE GOTO 10
20 GOTO 100
100 WHILE((SCREW$, 4Q2), CUSTOMER$) GOTO BANK
200 GOTO 10

All written in MBASIC.

Cheers,
Dick Johnson
Penguin : Linux version 2.4.26 on an i686 machine (5570.56 BogoMips).
            Note 96.31% of all statistics are fiction.

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Vadim Lobanov]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, walt wrote:

> alan wrote:
> 
> > Turns out the Microsoft code has just as much profanity, if not more, than 
> > the Linux kernel source.  (Of course, they have more to swear about...)
> 
> Not that I doubt you for one second -- but I'd like to examine the M$ source
> code for myself if you don't mind.  Only for the purpose of verifying your
> somewhat unusual claim, naturally.
> 
> Oh, BTW, where can I find their source code...
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 

Actually, in this area, Linux has MSWindows beaten hands down - the amount 
of profanity in the Windows 2000 source code was actually not that great. 
However, what MS lacks in profane comments, it makes up by sheer oddness - 
some of the comments looked like they were written by someone on acid, and 
were extraordinarily long (50 lines of comments to 3 lines of code was a 
norm). Amusing reading overall, however.

-VadimL

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Tim Hockin]

On Thu, Jun 10, 2004 at 04:52:30PM -0700, Vadim Lobanov wrote:
> Actually, in this area, Linux has MSWindows beaten hands down - the amount 
> of profanity in the Windows 2000 source code was actually not that great. 
> However, what MS lacks in profane comments, it makes up by sheer oddness - 
> some of the comments looked like they were written by someone on acid, and 
> were extraordinarily long (50 lines of comments to 3 lines of code was a 
> norm). Amusing reading overall, however.


Note to all: do not accept patches from Vadim.  Sorry, guy.  You're
tainted.

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[James Buchanan]

> Note to all: do not accept patches from Vadim.  Sorry, guy.  You're
> tainted.

Yeah, we don't want microshit's source in Linux!!  Hah.

Seriously, how can this amount to anything?  M$ claiming Vadim stole
Win2K source and contributed it to Linux?  Pu-leeease....

Maybehap they could use their lawyers to stir up a great mess and cause
people to waste a lot of money defending spurious lawsuits... in which
case I get your point...

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[alan]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, James Buchanan wrote:

> 
> > Note to all: do not accept patches from Vadim.  Sorry, guy.  You're
> > tainted.
> 
> Yeah, we don't want microshit's source in Linux!!  Hah.
> 
> Seriously, how can this amount to anything?  M$ claiming Vadim stole
> Win2K source and contributed it to Linux?  Pu-leeease....
> 
> Maybehap they could use their lawyers to stir up a great mess and cause
> people to waste a lot of money defending spurious lawsuits... in which
> case I get your point...

But how can you keep it out if you don't know what it looks like?

Sorry... Can't resist being a Devil's Advocate.

The only use for the Win2k source is a "point and laugh" interface.

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Vadim Lobanov]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, James Buchanan wrote:

> 
> > Note to all: do not accept patches from Vadim.  Sorry, guy.  You're
> > tainted.
> 
> Yeah, we don't want microshit's source in Linux!!  Hah.
> 
> Seriously, how can this amount to anything?  M$ claiming Vadim stole
> Win2K source and contributed it to Linux?  Pu-leeease....
> 
> Maybehap they could use their lawyers to stir up a great mess and cause
> people to waste a lot of money defending spurious lawsuits... in which
> case I get your point...
> 
> 
> 

In which case they could go after anyone with an internet connection, 
given that their sources were (still are?) floating around on the net. In 
any case, even if I wanted to copy, I couldn't, for the simple fact that I 
don't have the source.

-VadimL

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Nigel Cunningham]

alan wrote:
> Turns out the Microsoft code has just as much profanity, if not more, than 
> the Linux kernel source.  (Of course, they have more to swear about...)

The amount of profanity in the Microsoft code is irrelevant, unless you want to base your ethics on 
what people do. If you think it through, you'll see that's a very shaky foundation for determining 
right and wrong.

Regards,

Nigel
-- 
Nigel & Michelle Cunningham
C/- Westminster Presbyterian Church Belconnen
61 Templeton Street, Cook, ACT 2614.
+61 (417) 100 574 (mobile)

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[alan]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Nigel Cunningham wrote:

> alan wrote:
> > Turns out the Microsoft code has just as much profanity, if not more, than 
> > the Linux kernel source.  (Of course, they have more to swear about...)
> 
> The amount of profanity in the Microsoft code is irrelevant, unless you want to base your ethics on 
> what people do. If you think it through, you'll see that's a very shaky foundation for determining 
> right and wrong.

I just find it a pointless diversion one way or another.  profanity is 
quite descriptive when it comes to code.  (Especially device drivers.)

Some people try to assign their personal choices of language preference 
into a moral judgement.  It generates more heat than light in a 
development environment.

Re: Profanity in the kernel-sources

[L A Walsh]

you could put a filter on bk and have it reject any patch applied
that has any number of a list of "naughty" words...like when I
used the word "unscrew" to describe the action to remove a screw.
I was told I couldn't post it because of the profanity (oi vey!)
Just think of the inanities...
-l

>I just find it a pointless diversion one way or another.  profanity is 
>quite descriptive when it comes to code.  (Especially device drivers.)
>
>  
>

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Måns Rullgård]

Nigel Cunningham <ncunningham@linuxmail.org> writes:

> alan wrote:
>> Turns out the Microsoft code has just as much profanity, if not
>> more, than the Linux kernel source.  (Of course, they have more to
>> swear about...)
>
> The amount of profanity in the Microsoft code is irrelevant, unless
> you want to base your ethics on what people do. If you think it
> through, you'll see that's a very shaky foundation for determining
> right and wrong.

Hey, let's add some comments about homophobia to the kernel.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@kth.se

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Tobias Hirning]

Hi!
> Insult???  Do you mean "bad words???" Who defines what words are
> "good" or what words are "bad"?
I mean something like this "the pcmcia-peoble are idiots".
I think it's not good, that in the kernelsources are things like this, 
because Linux only develops itself because there are many people who 
mus work together and so they must be a little be polite.
> Or maybe you just learned how to use `grep` and you want to
> dazzle us all??
No.
Tobias

PS: sorry for my bad Enlish.

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Patrick Finnegan]

On Monday 14 June 2004 08:46, Tobias Hirning wrote:
> Hi!
>
> > Insult???  Do you mean "bad words???" Who defines what words are
> > "good" or what words are "bad"?
>
> I mean something like this "the pcmcia-peoble are idiots".
> I think it's not good, that in the kernelsources are things like
> this, because Linux only develops itself because there are many
> people who mus work together and so they must be a little be polite.

Then you must not have read this mailing list for very long... 

Being polite has this nasty tendancy of not helping get things done, 
when compared with saying what you *really* think.

Pat
-- 
Purdue University ITAP/RCS        ---  http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/
The Computer Refuge               ---  http://computer-refuge.org

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[viro]

On Thu, Jun 10, 2004 at 08:53:48PM +0200, Tobias Hirning wrote:
> Hi people,
> have you ever tried a 
> grep "insult" -i -r ./*
>  in the sourcetree of the kernel?
> (insult must be replaced by an insult)
> Haven't?
> So do and think about, because the you can find to much of insults in 
> the sources.
> Tobias

What, you find them too predictable and commonplace?

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Paul P Komkoff Jr]

Replying to Tobias Hirning:
> Hi people,
> have you ever tried a 
> grep "insult" -i -r ./*
>  in the sourcetree of the kernel?
> (insult must be replaced by an insult)
> Haven't?
> So do and think about, because the you can find to much of insults in 
> the sources.
> Tobias

Go sign a shared source and do same thing on well known operating
system code
You will be pleasantly surprised.

(just cannot resist ;))

-- 
Paul P 'Stingray' Komkoff Jr // http://stingr.net/key <- my pgp key
 This message represents the official view of the voices in my head

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Jesper Juhl]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Tobias Hirning wrote:

> Hi people,
> have you ever tried a
> grep "insult" -i -r ./*
>  in the sourcetree of the kernel?

sure.

> So do and think about, because the you can find to much of insults in
> the sources.

Why do you find this to be a problem? People use swear words everywhere,
why not code comments?  If that's the language that best describes
something I say use it...
They are just words, nothing to get so worked up about IMO.
What matters is the quality of the code, not the level of profanity in the
comments.


--
Jesper Juhl <juhl-lkml@dif.dk>

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Rik van Riel]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Tobias Hirning wrote:

> have you ever tried a 
> grep "insult" -i -r ./*
>  in the sourcetree of the kernel?

Yeah, isn't it great ?

Hours and hours of fun, learning more about
crappy hardware than you ever wanted to know.

> So do and think about, because the you can find to much of
> insults in the sources.

Too much?  Considering how amazingly bad some
stuff is (especially hardware bugs) I'm quite
surprised there aren't more of those amusing
profanities throughout the source code.

Maybe I should start hacking device drivers,
so I can legitimately add them ?

What do you think ?

-- 
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[John Bradford]

Quote from Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>:
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Tobias Hirning wrote:
> 
> > have you ever tried a 
> > grep "insult" -i -r ./*
> >  in the sourcetree of the kernel?
> 
> Yeah, isn't it great ?
> 
> Hours and hours of fun, learning more about
> crappy hardware than you ever wanted to know.
> 
> > So do and think about, because the you can find to much of
> > insults in the sources.
> 
> Too much?  Considering how amazingly bad some
> stuff is (especially hardware bugs) I'm quite
> surprised there aren't more of those amusing
> profanities throughout the source code.
> 
> Maybe I should start hacking device drivers,
> so I can legitimately add them ?
> 
> What do you think ?

Patches specifically to add insults are probably 2.7 material :-).

John.

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Richard B. Johnson]

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, John Bradford wrote:

> Quote from Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>:
> > On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Tobias Hirning wrote:
> >
> > > have you ever tried a
> > > grep "insult" -i -r ./*
> > >  in the sourcetree of the kernel?
> >
> > Yeah, isn't it great ?
> >
> > Hours and hours of fun, learning more about
> > crappy hardware than you ever wanted to know.
> >
> > > So do and think about, because the you can find to much of
> > > insults in the sources.
> >
> > Too much?  Considering how amazingly bad some
> > stuff is (especially hardware bugs) I'm quite
> > surprised there aren't more of those amusing
> > profanities throughout the source code.
> >
> > Maybe I should start hacking device drivers,
> > so I can legitimately add them ?
> >
> > What do you think ?
>
> Patches specifically to add insults are probably 2.7 material :-).
>
> John.

Gotta be careful. SCO probably patented most of them ;^).

Cheers,
Dick Johnson
Penguin : Linux version 2.4.26 on an i686 machine (5570.56 BogoMips).
            Note 96.31% of all statistics are fiction.

RE: Insults in the kernel-sources

[Sean Fao]

> Hi people,
> have you ever tried a 
> grep "insult" -i -r ./*
> in the sourcetree of the kernel?
> (insult must be replaced by an insult)
> Haven't?
> So do and think about, because the you can find to much of insults in 
> the sources.
> Tobias

http://www.vidarholen.net/contents/wordcount/

Re: Insults in the kernel-sources

[nardelli]

Sean Fao wrote:
>>Hi people,
>>have you ever tried a 
>>grep "insult" -i -r ./*
>>in the sourcetree of the kernel?
>>(insult must be replaced by an insult)
>>Haven't?
>>So do and think about, because the you can find to much of insults in 
>>the sources.
>>Tobias
> 
> 
> http://www.vidarholen.net/contents/wordcount/
> -

This is by far the best source code metrics page that I've ever seen :-)

-- 
Joe Nardelli
jnardelli@infosciences.com