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From: Timothy Miller <miller@techsource.com>
To: 4Front Technologies <dev@opensound.com>
Cc: viro@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>
Subject: Re: Stop the Linux kernel madness
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:42:51 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <40D30D7B.4060907@techsource.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <40D23EBD.50600@opensound.com>



4Front Technologies wrote:

> That's right Al, 4Front, ATI, Nvidia are all evil!. OK so now get on 
> with life.
> 
> It's time everybody started to pay some attention to in-kernel 
> interfaces because
> Linux has graduated out of your personal sandbox to where other people 
> want to use
> Linux and they aren't kernel developers.
> 
> Sure we can fix the problem with SuSE - we've been doing this for the 
> past 7 years.
> And we know a thing or two about Linux kernels but wouldn't it be better 
> for the
> Linux community in general to have such source issue stabilized?


Stop whining.

People often complain about Linux lacking a stable kernel driver ABI. 
They act like it's some kind of conspiracy.  The truth of the matter is, 
Linux designers prefer technical flexibility over stable internal 
interfaces.  This is part of Linux philosophy -- it's part of the what 
defines Linux -- and so if you use Linux, this is something you simply 
have to ACCEPT.

If you don't want to accept that, develop for some other OS.  No one's 
begging you to develop commercial products for Linux.

Another important thing to note that whiners like yourself seem to miss 
is that kernel interfaces aren't really any more table in other 
operating systems.  Have you ever developed kernel drivers for different 
versions of Solaris?  Windows?  HPUX?  Tru64?  AIX?  OpenVMS?  Where I 
work, we develop drivers for all of those platforms, and every version 
of every one of those kernels is different from every other version that 
requires us to rewrite and recompile our drivers for each one separately.

So the fact that Linux doesn't have a stable driver ABI is actually one 
of its most mundane and commonplace attributes.


  parent reply	other threads:[~2004-06-18 15:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 181+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-06-18  0:09 Stop the Linux kernel madness 4Front Technologies
2004-06-18  0:20 ` Kyle McMartin
2004-06-18 14:51   ` Jesper Juhl
2004-06-18 14:54     ` Jesper Juhl
2004-06-19  2:36     ` Horst von Brand
2004-06-18  0:21 ` Martin J. Bligh
2004-06-18  0:27   ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-18  0:31     ` Christoph Hellwig
2004-06-18  5:51     ` Martin J. Bligh
2004-06-18 10:39     ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2004-06-18 15:48     ` Andreas Gruenbacher
2004-06-18 17:30       ` Martin Schlemmer
2004-06-18 17:53       ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-18 18:28         ` Timothy Miller
2004-06-18 18:23           ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-18 18:54             ` Kyle Moffett
2004-06-18 20:31               ` Hannu Savolainen
2004-06-18 21:37                 ` Kyle Moffett
2004-06-18 19:08             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-06-18 19:43             ` Timothy Miller
2004-06-18 19:02         ` Andreas Dilger
2004-06-18 20:12           ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-18 19:36             ` Andreas Dilger
2004-06-18 19:40             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-06-18 20:29               ` David Lang
2004-06-18 20:54                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-06-20 12:56                 ` Hannu Savolainen
2004-06-20 22:11                   ` David Lang
2004-06-21  1:16                     ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-21  7:07                       ` Hannu Savolainen
2004-06-21  7:25                         ` Xavier Bestel
2004-06-21  8:27                           ` Hannu Savolainen
2004-06-21 13:12                             ` Denis Vlasenko
2004-06-22  2:06                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2004-06-22  7:54                         ` Hannu Savolainen
2004-06-22 11:19                           ` Denis Vlasenko
2004-06-22 16:48                             ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-22 17:46                           ` V13
2004-06-19 16:35       ` Jari Ruusu
2004-06-18 20:46     ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-06-18 20:59       ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-18 22:59         ` Thomas Gleixner
2004-06-19 16:36       ` Jari Ruusu
2004-06-19 18:01         ` Roman Zippel
2004-06-19 21:12           ` Martin Schlemmer
2004-06-20 15:43           ` Jari Ruusu
2004-06-18  0:39 ` Andrew Morton
2004-06-18  1:29   ` Nicholas S. Wourms
2004-06-18  8:27   ` Jens Axboe
2004-06-18 14:43     ` Rik van Riel
2004-06-18 15:13       ` William Lee Irwin III
2004-06-18 15:33         ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-18 17:17           ` Paul Jakma
2004-06-18 18:24             ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-18 19:02           ` Tim Bird
2004-06-18 19:45             ` Timothy Miller
2004-06-18 19:46               ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-18 20:05             ` Rik van Riel
2004-06-18 20:08               ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-18 21:03                 ` jsimmons
2004-06-18 21:10                   ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-18 21:13                     ` Jens Axboe
2004-06-18 21:38                       ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-18 23:18                         ` jsimmons
2004-06-19  8:19                           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-19  3:34                         ` Horst von Brand
2004-06-22 13:24                           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-18 22:05                   ` viro
2004-06-18 22:10                     ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-19 12:42                   ` Francois Romieu
2004-06-19 13:55                     ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-20 10:21                       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-06-22 19:34                     ` jsimmons
2004-06-18 20:20               ` Tim Bird
2004-06-18 20:50                 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-18 20:05             ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-18 20:03           ` Rik van Riel
2004-06-19 12:09           ` John Jasen
2004-06-19 12:29             ` lkml
     [not found]       ` <2c0942db040618100264ea6b7d@mail.gmail.com>
2004-06-18 17:27         ` Ray Lee
2004-06-18 20:51       ` Andrew Morton
2004-06-18 21:03         ` Rik van Riel
2004-06-18 21:26           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-18 21:17         ` Jens Axboe
2004-06-19 20:59           ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2004-06-18  0:44 ` viro
2004-06-18  1:00   ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-18  1:20     ` Roman Zippel
2004-06-18  1:33       ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-18 10:12         ` Roman Zippel
2004-06-18 17:37           ` Hannu Savolainen
2004-06-18 20:26             ` Roman Zippel
2004-06-18 21:52             ` Jeff Garzik
2004-06-18 22:26               ` Matt Domsch
2004-06-18 23:13                 ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-19  8:44               ` Hannu Savolainen
2004-06-19  2:59             ` Horst von Brand
2004-06-18  9:57       ` Petr Vandrovec
2004-06-18 13:47         ` Olaf Hering
2004-06-18 14:03           ` Petr Vandrovec
2004-06-18 14:59             ` Duncan Sands
2004-06-18  1:20     ` viro
2004-06-18  1:25     ` Thomas Gleixner
2004-06-18  1:31     ` Nick Piggin
2004-06-18  1:37       ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-18  1:41         ` Nick Piggin
2004-06-18  2:17         ` Erik Harrison
2004-06-18  7:45         ` John Bradford
2004-06-18  9:05           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-18  1:34     ` Bernd Eckenfels
2004-06-18 10:51       ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2004-06-18  8:48     ` Flavio Stanchina
2004-06-18 10:25     ` Matthias Andree
2004-06-20  5:28       ` Ryan Anderson
2004-06-20  8:13         ` Jaroslav Kysela
2004-06-22 15:17         ` Matthias Andree
2004-06-22 18:22           ` Bill Davidsen
2004-06-18 15:42     ` Timothy Miller [this message]
2004-06-18  1:07 ` thinkliberty
2004-06-18  1:12   ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-18  1:21     ` CaT
2004-06-18  1:37     ` Bastiaan Spandaw
2004-06-18  1:46       ` 4Front Technologies
2004-06-18  2:06         ` Thomas Gleixner
     [not found]           ` <40D259DD.6020604@opensound.com>
2004-06-18 22:53             ` Thomas Gleixner
2004-06-18  5:54         ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-18  8:50         ` Helge Hafting
2004-06-18 11:05         ` Redeeman
2004-06-18 15:25         ` Jeff Garzik
2004-06-18 15:51         ` Timothy Miller
2004-06-18 16:53           ` Alex Goddard
2004-06-18 15:46     ` Timothy Miller
2004-06-18  6:40 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-06-18  8:10 ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2004-06-18 15:34 ` Timothy Miller
     [not found] ` <mailman.1087541100.18231.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2004-06-18 19:47   ` Pete Zaitcev
2004-06-19 16:35     ` Jari Ruusu
2004-06-19 20:52       ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2004-06-20 15:43         ` Jari Ruusu
2004-06-20 20:44           ` Andreas Gruenbacher
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-10-08  4:43 2.6.19-rc1: known regressions (v2) Trond Myklebust
2006-10-08  4:55 ` Adrian Bunk
     [not found]   ` <1160283948.10192.3.camel@lade.trondhjem.org>
2006-10-08  6:39     ` Adrian Bunk
2006-10-08  7:45       ` Pekka Enberg
2006-10-08 17:28         ` Adrian Bunk
2006-10-08 17:34           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2006-10-08 17:59             ` Adrian Bunk
2006-10-08 18:04               ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2006-10-08 18:15                 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-10-08 18:22                   ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2006-10-09  1:49             ` Horst H. von Brand
2004-06-22 14:38 Stop the Linux kernel madness Petr Vandrovec
2004-06-22 15:12 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-22 17:32   ` Christoph Hellwig
2004-06-22 18:42     ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-06-22 19:52       ` Petr Vandrovec
2004-06-23 14:58       ` Timothy Miller
2004-06-23 15:03         ` Christoph Hellwig
2004-06-23 16:03           ` Petr Vandrovec
2004-06-23 18:26             ` Vojtech Pavlik
2004-06-23 18:27               ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2004-05-28  1:55 ftp.kernel.org Ricky Beam
2004-05-28  2:29 ` ftp.kernel.org Martin J. Bligh
2004-05-28  4:21   ` ftp.kernel.org Ricky Beam
2004-05-28  8:41     ` ftp.kernel.org Mark Watts
2004-05-28  6:21       ` ftp.kernel.org Chris Shoemaker
2004-05-28 15:01         ` ftp.kernel.org Theodore Ts'o
2004-05-28 16:32           ` ftp.kernel.org Andreas Dilger
2004-05-29 15:30             ` ftp.kernel.org Daniel Egger
2004-05-30  0:29               ` ftp.kernel.org H. Peter Anvin
2004-05-30  9:43                 ` ftp.kernel.org Andrew Walrond
2004-06-13 22:22                 ` ftp.kernel.org Pedro Larroy
2004-05-28 19:08           ` ftp.kernel.org Chris Shoemaker
2004-05-28 22:15           ` ftp.kernel.org H. Peter Anvin
2004-05-28  8:55       ` ftp.kernel.org Jan-Benedict Glaw
2004-05-28 11:10         ` ftp.kernel.org Mark Watts
2004-05-28 13:57           ` ftp.kernel.org Keith Owens
2004-05-28 22:16           ` ftp.kernel.org H. Peter Anvin
2004-05-29 21:05         ` ftp.kernel.org Horst von Brand
2004-05-30  6:52           ` ftp.kernel.org H. Peter Anvin
2004-05-28 22:17 ` ftp.kernel.org H. Peter Anvin

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