Re: DTrace-like analysis possible with future Linux kernels?

[Christoph Halder <christoph@halder.org>]

Bryan Cantrill wrote:

>>Sorry, but that goes a little too far. No, I didn't try out dtrace
>>and, right after reading the article (and that's the important thing!)
>>I didn't seek for further information about it, I'm not a Solaris
>>System Administrator right now (I was, some years ago). And all I was
>>saying is that this *article* was just ridiculous.

I believe that the main problem in this dispute is just a 
missunderstanding based on cultural differences between Europe and 
America and the way articles are written and perceived.

>>But in that article, I was just missing the objectiveness. A quick
>>note about the fact that Sun's been introducing dtrace for Solaris 10
>>and what it is, what it does, would have been much better instead of
>>talking about a "Cantrill explosion", how "DTrace has completely
>>changed the way I do business" (actual quotes).

True, to europeans this sounds far too overenthusiastic - almost like a 
commercial - and will most certainly lead to the impression, that the 
article is not very serious.

Europeans try to write serious articles VERY neutral - any personal 
opinion(s) will only be a short statement at the very end of the article.

It's just what we are used to!

> You don't like customer quotes?  It seems to me that quotes like that
> one (or like the other customer quotes that appear in the article)
> give weight to the claims.  Don't you like to hear from people who have
> actually _used_ a technology?  I know that I do -- those who have used
> a technology are likely to have a much more balanced view on its
> strengths and weaknesses than those who have just read about it.  (Indeed,
> this is true of pretty much anything -- experience matters.)

Nobody likes them here, really. A product should stand out and prove 
quality by its own, we don't like to be told about it by people we don't 
personally know.(even if they may have a good reputation)

Another example to what europeans will regard as "unserious".
When we watch american commercials, which are sometimes broadcasted in 
Tv, we very often think about this as very odd. Simply very different to 
how this is done in Europe.

"Customer Quotes" have a very, VERY bad reputation, it smells like 
manipulation (whether it is or not).

>>Bryan Cantrill, I can understand that you have to defend DTrace. But
>>please, PLEASE stop saying that I am a clueless moron if I wasn't even
>>ranting about you, ranting about DTrace, but just about *that single
>>article* and it's presentation of DTrace to me.

Personal insults will not lead to anything, and IMHO should not be made 
at all. A response sticking to the facts might have been more useful.

> You were attacking more than just the article; you ended with:
> 
>   I sure hope that article is meant sarcastically. By the way, did I
>   miss something or is profiling suddenly a new thing again?

Maybe a lapse made by Julien.
But the main topic still seems to be the style the article was written in.

> You asked if you were missing something, and I replied that you were
> missing plenty.  Presumably you now feel informed (if a little embarrassed),
> and I think that those that you misinformed also now realize that what
> you provided them was misinformation.  So as far as I'm concerned, that's
> the end of that.

Embarrassed?
Yes he most certainly will be, but what information did he provide to 
others? I dont't see much information about DTrace itself.

I hope nobody feels offended by my statements.

Christoph Halder