From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S268039AbUHZKCv (ORCPT ); Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:02:51 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S268034AbUHZKBo (ORCPT ); Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:01:44 -0400 Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.198.39]:56504 "EHLO rwcrmhc13.comcast.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S268039AbUHZInJ (ORCPT ); Thu, 26 Aug 2004 04:43:09 -0400 Message-ID: <412DA29E.1070606@namesys.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 01:43:10 -0700 From: Hans Reiser User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linus Torvalds CC: Christoph Hellwig , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Alexander Lyamin aka FLX , ReiserFS List Subject: Re: silent semantic changes with reiser4 References: <20040824202521.GA26705@lst.de> <412CEE38.1080707@namesys.com> <20040825200859.GA16345@lst.de> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.85.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Linus Torvalds wrote: >On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > > >>For one thing _I_ didn't decide about xattrs anyway. And I still >>haven't seen a design from you on -fsdevel how you try to solve the >>problems with files as directories. >> >> > >Hey, files-as-directories are one of my pet things, so I have to side with >Hans on this one. I think it just makes sense. A hell of a lot more sense >than xattrs, anyway, since it allows scripts etc standard tools to touch >the attributes. > >It's the UNIX way. > >And yes, the semantics can _easily_ be solved in very unixy ways. > >One way to solve it is to just realize that a final slash at the end >implies pretty strongly that you want to treat it as a directory. So what >you do is: > > - without the slash, a file-as-dir won't open with O_DIRECTORY (ENOTDIR) > - with the slash, it won't open _without_ O_DIRECTORY (EISDIR) > >Problem solved. Very user-friendly, and very intuitive. > >Will it potentially break something? Sure. Do we care? Me, I'll take that >kind of extension _any_ day over xattrs, that are fundamentally flawed in >my opinion and totally useless. The argument that applications like "tar" >won't understand the file-as-directory thing is _flawed_, since legacy >apps won't understand xattrs either. > >Oh, add a O_NOXATTRS flag to force a path lookup to only use regular >directories, the same way we have O_NOFOLLOW and friends. That allows >people to see the difference, if they care (ie a file server might decide >that it doesn't want to expose things like this). > > I think we should require people to care enough to supply an O_NOMETAS flag to see the difference. >I never liked the xattr stuff. It makes little sense, and is totally >useless for 99.9999% of everything. I still don't see the point of it, >except for samba. Ugly. > > Linus > > > >