From: "Kendall Bennett" <KendallB@scitechsoft.com>
To: Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: HARDWARE: Open-Source-Friendly Graphics Cards -- Viable?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:30:01 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4177ABC9.24323.20E9CA71@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0410201521310.17443@dlang.diginsite.com>
David Lang <david.lang@digitalinsight.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Timothy Miller wrote:
>
> > Sure, SOME companies release specs so that we can develop
> > open source drivers, but those cards tend to be prohibitively expensive,
> > slower than their cheaper counterparts from ATI or nVidia...
>
> Tim, I think this is the key problem. with the current ATI/nVidia
> cards beign in the $50 range (with other cards on the market for
> as low as $30) are you really going to be able to come up with a
> card that's price competitive? (completely ignoring the
> performance question)
>
> as for your other question of if an open approach could be viable
> (after all nobody does it today so doesn't that proove it isn't)
>
> this is where there is a significant disagreement. the Linux folks
> think that such openess would be very viable and the companies are
> just pursuing a legacy approach, but the companies are scared to
> open things up becouse they don't believe that they would remain
> viable.
>
> since nobody has done this yet (for video cards anyeay) there is
> no proof one way or the other.
Wrong. Companies *have* tried to go down the Open Source route and it did
not work out for them. ATI in particular. At one point ATI released all
the register level information and in fact released sample 3D driver
source code to the community for the early Radeon chipsets. Unfortunately
the Linux and Open Source community never stepped up to the plate to
support ATI in this effort. There are solid business reasons that ATI has
explained to me for why ATI decided to give up on the Open Source
approach and go back to proprietary 3D drivers for Linux.
For 2D they continue to maintain XFree86/X.org drivers with full source
code for the community, just not 3D.
If someone wishes to go down this route, more power to them. But I don't
think it is a viable way to make money for a business. The biggest
problem is that even if every active Linux or Open Source kernel
developer decided to buy one of these cards, that is a pretty small
market. The unfortunate fact I have come to realise is that there is a
very large contingent of Linux end users out there who just want free
stuff. Free as in free beer. They could care less whether the source code
is available as long as they don't pay for it. Those same users are also
more than happy to install ATI or NVIDIA proprietary kernel modules and
taint their kernel so they can get 3D support when running Linux and
still run their favorite games at full speed under Windows. Those same
users probably won't pay a premium to get a 3D card that is slower than
an ATI or NVIDIA just because it has source code for the drivers.
Sad but true IMHO.
Regards,
---
Kendall Bennett
Chief Executive Officer
SciTech Software, Inc.
Phone: (530) 894 8400
http://www.scitechsoft.com
~ SciTech SNAP - The future of device driver technology! ~
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-10-21 19:47 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 165+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2004-10-20 22:02 HARDWARE: Open-Source-Friendly Graphics Cards -- Viable? Timothy Miller
2004-10-20 22:17 ` Andre Eisenbach
2004-10-21 1:31 ` Jon Valvatne
2004-10-21 16:09 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-24 19:47 ` Pavel Machek
2004-10-20 22:19 ` HARDWARE: Open-Source-Friendly Graphics Cards -- Viable? [u] Martin Schlemmer [c]
2004-10-24 8:24 ` Tonnerre
2004-10-24 14:26 ` Martin Schlemmer [c]
2004-10-20 22:26 ` HARDWARE: Open-Source-Friendly Graphics Cards -- Viable? David Lang
2004-10-21 14:46 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 17:25 ` David Lang
2004-10-21 18:15 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 18:32 ` Antonio Vargas
2004-10-22 9:53 ` Raphael Jacquot
2004-10-24 9:03 ` Tonnerre
2004-10-25 1:33 ` Stephen Wille Padnos
2004-10-25 1:48 ` Stephen Wille Padnos
2004-10-25 2:29 ` Gene Heskett
2004-10-22 10:16 ` Christian Leber
2004-10-22 17:31 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 19:30 ` Kendall Bennett [this message]
2004-10-22 17:05 ` Tobias Diedrich
2004-10-22 17:12 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-26 2:36 ` Dave Airlie
2004-10-26 3:55 ` Jon Smirl
2004-10-20 22:28 ` Jim Nelson
2004-10-21 14:51 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 22:03 ` Jim Nelson
2004-10-20 22:29 ` Kasper Sandberg
2004-10-21 14:53 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 15:06 ` Simon Braunschmidt
2004-10-21 18:00 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-20 23:10 ` Alan Cox
2004-10-21 15:10 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 15:25 ` Jon Smirl
2004-10-21 18:03 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 15:32 ` Alan Cox
2004-10-21 19:30 ` Kendall Bennett
2004-10-22 17:15 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 1:08 ` Jon Smirl
2004-10-21 1:11 ` Jon Smirl
2004-10-21 2:00 ` Stephen Wille Padnos
2004-10-21 16:08 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 16:34 ` Stephen Wille Padnos
2004-10-21 23:38 ` Jan Knutar
2004-10-22 4:30 ` Jan Rychter
2004-10-22 17:00 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-22 17:00 ` Chris Friesen
2004-10-22 18:47 ` Jeff Garzik
2004-10-22 19:22 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-22 19:33 ` Jeff Garzik
2004-10-22 19:56 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-22 20:43 ` Jeff Garzik
2004-10-22 20:27 ` Alan Cox
2004-10-23 17:20 ` Francois Romieu
2004-10-23 21:17 ` Alan Cox
2004-10-24 0:06 ` Francois Romieu
2004-10-22 20:51 ` Jeff Garzik
2004-10-22 19:32 ` Roland Dreier
2004-10-24 10:40 ` Helge Hafting
2004-10-25 15:39 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 21:57 ` J.A. Magallon
2004-10-22 9:48 ` Raphael Jacquot
2004-10-21 20:23 ` "Fernando O. Korndörfer"
2004-10-22 9:02 ` Raphael Jacquot
2004-10-21 15:13 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 15:36 ` Shaun Kruger
2004-10-21 18:05 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 19:30 ` Kendall Bennett
2004-10-22 8:49 ` Adrian Cox
2004-10-22 20:10 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-10-23 13:17 ` Adrian Cox
2004-10-22 20:10 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-10-22 22:07 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-24 10:45 ` Helge Hafting
2004-10-25 15:47 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-28 9:07 ` Helge Hafting
2004-10-29 16:00 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 1:48 ` HARDWARE:Graphics Cards or TOE? Nuno Silva
2004-10-26 20:50 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 2:29 ` HARDWARE: Open-Source-Friendly Graphics Cards -- Viable? Kurt Wall
2004-10-21 16:10 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 16:22 ` Pascal Patry
2004-10-21 12:20 ` Adrian Bunk
2004-10-21 13:14 ` Simon Braunschmidt
2004-10-21 17:34 ` Jurriaan
2004-10-21 16:26 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 17:42 ` Alan Cox
2004-10-21 19:09 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 17:53 ` Tobias Diedrich
2004-10-21 23:02 ` Florian Schmidt
2004-10-24 1:04 ` Lee Revell
2004-10-22 1:08 ` Rene Herman
2004-10-23 5:40 ` Kevin Puetz
2004-10-23 17:02 ` Rene Herman
2004-10-23 22:19 ` Lee Revell
2004-10-24 11:10 ` Rene Herman
2004-10-22 10:57 ` Helge Hafting
2004-10-22 19:47 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2004-10-22 20:15 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2004-10-25 15:29 ` Tonnerre
2004-10-25 15:53 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-25 16:32 ` Giuliano Pochini
2004-10-28 9:37 ` Helge Hafting
2004-10-28 11:40 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-10-28 12:21 ` David Greaves
2004-10-29 16:04 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-22 22:27 ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2004-10-23 14:36 ` Markus Törnqvist
2004-10-24 8:18 ` Tonnerre
2004-10-25 11:54 ` Stuart Longland
2004-10-25 16:38 ` Lars Roland
2004-10-25 17:08 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-26 21:02 ` Helge Hafting
2004-10-26 21:38 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-25 22:52 ` Tonnerre
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-10-20 23:48 Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 0:30 ` J.A. Magallon
2004-10-21 0:47 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-22 20:09 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2004-10-21 1:25 ` Zan Lynx
2004-10-21 15:52 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 4:48 Albert Cahalan
2004-10-21 16:19 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 15:54 John Ripley
2004-10-21 18:09 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 21:32 ` Baruch Even
2004-10-25 23:30 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-10-21 17:08 Greg Buchholz
2004-10-22 2:18 ` Tim Connors
2004-10-21 17:44 John Ripley
2004-10-21 18:26 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 21:36 ` Greg Buchholz
2004-10-21 22:40 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-21 23:25 ` Jon Smirl
2004-10-21 23:40 ` Greg Buchholz
2004-10-22 16:48 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-22 16:50 ` Chris Friesen
2004-10-22 17:41 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-25 23:10 ` Tonnerre
2004-10-26 0:32 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-10-22 15:59 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2004-10-22 3:47 Roy Butler
2004-10-22 17:04 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-24 18:17 ` Mail Lists
2004-10-25 12:17 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2004-10-22 10:31 John Ripley
2004-10-22 12:58 ` Moritz Muehlenhoff
2004-10-22 17:33 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-22 17:15 Stephen Lewis
2004-10-23 4:45 ` Gene Heskett
2004-10-23 7:06 ` Stephen Lewis
2004-10-23 19:06 Bodo Eggert
2004-10-25 1:44 ` Stephen Wille Padnos
2004-10-25 8:23 ` Vojtech Pavlik
[not found] <6.1.2.0.1.20041026082223.0231edd8@mail.javagear.com>
2004-10-26 15:44 ` Timothy Miller
2004-10-26 16:35 ` Jesper Juhl
2004-10-26 16:57 ` Jeff Garzik
2004-10-26 21:14 ` Helge Hafting
2004-10-26 21:41 ` Timothy Miller
2004-11-17 14:35 Sid Boyce
2004-11-17 14:46 ` Chris Wedgwood
2004-11-23 13:47 ` Karel Kulhavy
2004-11-23 22:48 ` Timothy Miller
2004-11-24 1:22 ` Sid Boyce
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