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From: "Dr. Giovanni A. Orlando" <gorlando@futuretg.com>
To: Peter Foldiak <Peter.Foldiak@st-andrews.ac.uk>
Cc: Horst von Brand <vonbrand@inf.utfsm.cl>,
	Christian Mayrhuber <christian.mayrhuber@gmx.net>,
	reiserfs-list@namesys.com, Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com>,
	Paolo Ciarrocchi <paolo.ciarrocchi@gmail.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: file as a directory
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:23:13 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <41ACBA91.8020806@futuretg.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1101834194.17826.194.camel@pear.st-and.ac.uk>

Peter Foldiak wrote:

>On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 16:31, Horst von Brand wrote:
>  
>
>>>But namespace unification is important,
>>>      
>>>
>>Why? Directories are directories, files are files, file contents is file
>>contents. Mixing them up is a bad idea.
>>    
>>
>
>I disagree, I think it is a good idea.
>  
>
Hi,

    Please remember DOS.

    In DOS a directory is a file with a SPECIAL attrib: D_DIR.

    In Unix, is basically the same.

    There are nothing bad. The attrib specify that a file with the 
directory attrib
    may include additional files or directories.

Thanks,
Giovanni.

>Why is namespace unification important? Because you can use the same
>tools on everything. Previously, each tool could handle one namespace.
>
>A very simple example would be:
>I want to count the words in the Appendix of my book.
>If I can't select the appendix, my "wc" tool is useless (or very
>difficult to use). On the other hand if I can say
>
>wc ~/book/Appendix
>
>it's fine. Hans Reiser would say that "namespaces are the roads and
>waterways of the operating system" and "the value of an operating system
>is proportional to the number of connections you can make". I think he
>is right in that. And the authors of Unix knew it too, when they used
>the same namespace for devices and files. They didn't say "files are
>files and devices are devices". They said the difference should not
>matter to the applications.
>But there is still namespace fragmentation even in Unix, and this is
>just one of them.
>
>  
>
>> Sure, you could build a filesystem
>>of sorts (perhaps more in the vein of persistent programming, or even data
>>base systems) where there simply is no distinction (because there are no
>>differences to show), but that is something different.
>>
>>    
>>
>>>                                        and to unify the namespace, you
>>>have to use the same syntax. I guess you disagree with me on that. (If
>>>not, how would you do it?)
>>>      
>>>
>>I'd go one level up: Eliminate the distinctions that bother you, not try to
>>patch over them.
>>    
>>
>
>But that is my point too. Peter
>
>  
>


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  parent reply	other threads:[~2004-11-30 17:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 107+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-11-22 13:54 file as a directory Amit Gud
2004-11-22 14:37 ` Martin Waitz
2004-11-22 15:34   ` Zan Lynx
2004-11-22 17:18     ` Martin Waitz
2004-11-22 18:16   ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-22 14:38 ` Al Viro
2004-11-22 15:04 ` Helge Hafting
2004-11-22 17:15   ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-22 18:48     ` Hans Reiser
2004-11-24  9:16       ` Peter Foldiak
2004-11-24 14:05         ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-24 15:02         ` Paolo Ciarrocchi
2004-11-24 15:25           ` Peter Foldiak
2004-11-26 16:13             ` Hans Reiser
2004-11-24 16:11           ` Christian Mayrhuber
2004-11-25 10:50             ` Peter Foldiak
2004-11-26 18:19               ` Hans Reiser
2004-11-26 21:13                 ` Christian Mayrhuber
2004-11-27 11:09                   ` Peter Foldiak
2004-11-27 13:14                     ` Christian Mayrhuber
2004-11-29 21:20                       ` Horst von Brand
2004-11-29 22:59                         ` Peter Foldiak
2004-11-29 23:35                           ` Kevin Fox
2004-11-30  8:54                             ` Peter Foldiak
2004-11-30 16:28                               ` Kevin Fox
2004-11-30 16:42                                 ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-30 17:35                                   ` Jesse Pollard
2004-11-30 17:49                                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-30 18:26                                       ` Amit Gud
2004-11-30 18:39                                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-12-01  2:44                                           ` Scott Young
2004-12-03  9:58                                           ` Amit Gud
2004-11-30 14:51                           ` Horst von Brand
2004-11-30 15:29                             ` Peter Foldiak
2004-11-30 16:31                               ` Horst von Brand
2004-11-30 17:03                                 ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-14 16:58                                   ` Peter Foldiak
2004-12-14 17:21                                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-12-14 18:11                                       ` Peter Foldiak
2004-12-14 18:16                                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-12-14 17:24                                     ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-14 21:27                                       ` Peter Foldiak
2004-12-15  4:47                                         ` David Masover
2004-12-15  5:28                                           ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-16  0:16                                             ` David Masover
2004-12-16 18:52                                               ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-17 15:58                                                 ` David Masover
2004-12-17 16:52                                                   ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-18  1:52                                                     ` Horst von Brand
2004-12-20 17:21                                                       ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-15  9:27                                           ` Peter Foldiak
2004-12-15 23:56                                             ` David Masover
2004-12-16 18:48                                               ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-16 19:01                                                 ` Peter Foldiak
2004-12-17 18:09                                                   ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-18  0:20                                                     ` David Masover
2004-12-17 16:02                                                 ` David Masover
2004-12-17 16:54                                                   ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-15  5:19                                         ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-14 19:30                                     ` Horst von Brand
2004-12-15  4:52                                       ` David Masover
2004-12-15  5:31                                         ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-15  5:10                                       ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-15 13:28                                         ` Horst von Brand
2004-12-15 16:57                                           ` Hans Reiser
2004-12-15 19:11                                             ` Markus   Törnqvist
2004-12-15 20:57                                               ` Hans Reiser
2004-11-30 17:03                                 ` Peter Foldiak
2004-11-30 17:50                                   ` Horst von Brand
2004-11-30 18:23                                   ` Dr. Giovanni A. Orlando [this message]
2004-11-29 23:11                         ` Peter Foldiak
2004-11-30 16:04                   ` Martin Waitz
2004-11-27 12:49                 ` Markus   Törnqvist
2004-11-29 15:41                   ` Hans Reiser
2004-11-26 17:43         ` Hans Reiser
2004-11-27 11:50         ` Tomasz Torcz
2005-05-10  9:39         ` Peter Foldiak
2005-05-10 14:53           ` Hans Reiser
2005-05-10 15:32             ` Peter Foldiak
2005-05-10 16:30               ` Sean McGrath
2005-05-10 17:25                 ` Hans Reiser
2005-05-10 17:39                   ` Sean McGrath
2005-05-10 18:52                     ` Hans Reiser
2005-05-10 19:39                       ` Sean McGrath
2005-05-10 20:11                         ` Hans Reiser
2005-05-16 12:32               ` Leo Comerford
2005-05-10 15:14           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-10 15:38             ` Peter Foldiak
2005-05-10 17:20               ` Hans Reiser
2005-05-11 10:23               ` Helge Hafting
2004-11-23  6:20   ` Amit Gud
2004-11-24 10:32     ` Helge Hafting
2004-11-24 11:07       ` Amit Gud
2004-11-25 23:09   ` Pavel Machek
2004-11-28 18:53     ` Helge Hafting
2004-11-28 19:01       ` Pavel Machek
2004-11-22 17:59 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2004-11-22 18:24   ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-22 18:52   ` Hans Reiser
2004-11-22 19:05     ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-23  9:46       ` Amit Gud
2004-11-23 14:00         ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-23 14:17           ` Amit Gud
2004-11-23  9:11     ` Dirk Steinberg
2004-11-23  9:37       ` Markus   Törnqvist
2004-11-23 19:00       ` Hans Reiser
     [not found] <fa.imi6gu8.1e7qkqc@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.hcr9rb0.k6egam@ifi.uio.no>
2004-11-26  4:11   ` Bodo Eggert

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