Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec

Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec

[Michael Brade]

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Hi,

since at least kernel 2.6.9 I'm having a problem booting linux - it hangs 
after this

Probing IDE interface ide0...
hda: HITACHI_DK23DA-30, ATA DISK drive
elevator: using anticipatory as default io scheduler
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
Probing IDE interface ide1...
hdc: TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-R2212, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15

After about 30 seconds everything continues fine with

hda: max request size: 128KiB

I found additional lines in the log just before the line above:

Probing IDE interface ide2...
Probing IDE interface ide3...
Probing IDE interface ide4...
Probing IDE interface ide5...

But I only have ide0 and ide1. This problem persists even with 2.6.11-rc2. For 
the last test I removed every option from the kernel that is not needed, but 
the problem stays. So I'm sure it's not because of ACPI or PNP or the like.

With 2.6.11-rc2 I get in my syslog:

Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: ICH3M: chipset revision 2
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: ICH3M: not 100%% native mode: will probe irqs 
later
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel:     ide0: BM-DMA at 0xcfa0-0xcfa7, BIOS 
settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel:     ide1: BM-DMA at 0xcfa8-0xcfaf, BIOS 
settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:pio
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: Probing IDE interface ide0...
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: hda: HITACHI_DK23DA-30, ATA DISK drive
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: DEV: registering device: ID = 'ide0'
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: PM: Adding info for No Bus:ide0
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: DEV: registering device: ID = '0.0'
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: PM: Adding info for ide:0.0
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: bus ide: add device 0.0
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: Probing IDE interface ide1...
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: hdc: TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-R2212, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM 
drive
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: DEV: registering device: ID = 'ide1'
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: PM: Adding info for No Bus:ide1
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: DEV: registering device: ID = '1.0'
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: PM: Adding info for ide:1.0
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: bus ide: add device 1.0
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: bus pci: add driver PIIX_IDE
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: bound device '0000:00:1f.1' to driver 
'PIIX_IDE'
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: bus pci: add driver PCI_IDE
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: Probing IDE interface ide2...
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: Probing IDE interface ide3...
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: Probing IDE interface ide4...
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: ide4: Wait for ready failed before probe !
---> I guess the line above is the reason for the wait <---
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: Probing IDE interface ide5...
Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: hda: max request size: 128KiB

Userspace is debian sid, my computer is a Toshiba Laptop (Satellite 2410-404), 
you can find some information including an lspci on 
http://www.thorstenhaas.de/toshiba2410/. Attached's my kernel config.

Please CC me, I'm not subscribed, thanks.

Cheers,
-- 
Michael Brade;                 KDE Developer, Student of Computer Science
  |-mail: echo brade !#|tr -d "c oh"|s\e\d 's/e/\@/2;s/$/.org/;s/bra/k/2'
  °--web: http://www.kde.org/people/michaelb.html

KDE 3: The Next Generation in Desktop Experience

[-- Attachment #1.2: config --]
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CONFIG_X86=y
CONFIG_MMU=y
CONFIG_UID16=y
CONFIG_GENERIC_ISA_DMA=y
CONFIG_GENERIC_IOMAP=y
CONFIG_EXPERIMENTAL=y
CONFIG_CLEAN_COMPILE=y
CONFIG_BROKEN_ON_SMP=y
CONFIG_LOCK_KERNEL=y
CONFIG_SWAP=y
CONFIG_SYSVIPC=y
CONFIG_POSIX_MQUEUE=y
CONFIG_SYSCTL=y
CONFIG_KOBJECT_UEVENT=y
CONFIG_KALLSYMS=y
CONFIG_FUTEX=y
CONFIG_EPOLL=y
CONFIG_SHMEM=y
CONFIG_MODULES=y
CONFIG_MODULE_UNLOAD=y
CONFIG_MODULE_FORCE_UNLOAD=y
CONFIG_OBSOLETE_MODPARM=y
CONFIG_KMOD=y
CONFIG_X86_PC=y
CONFIG_MPENTIUM4=y
CONFIG_X86_CMPXCHG=y
CONFIG_X86_XADD=y
CONFIG_RWSEM_XCHGADD_ALGORITHM=y
CONFIG_X86_WP_WORKS_OK=y
CONFIG_X86_INVLPG=y
CONFIG_X86_BSWAP=y
CONFIG_X86_POPAD_OK=y
CONFIG_X86_GOOD_APIC=y
CONFIG_X86_INTEL_USERCOPY=y
CONFIG_X86_USE_PPRO_CHECKSUM=y
CONFIG_PREEMPT=y
CONFIG_X86_TSC=y
CONFIG_X86_MCE=y
CONFIG_X86_MCE_NONFATAL=y
CONFIG_TOSHIBA=y
CONFIG_MICROCODE=m
CONFIG_X86_MSR=m
CONFIG_X86_CPUID=m
CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM=y
CONFIG_MTRR=y
CONFIG_HAVE_DEC_LOCK=y
CONFIG_PCI=y
CONFIG_PCI_GOANY=y
CONFIG_PCI_BIOS=y
CONFIG_PCI_DIRECT=y
CONFIG_PCI_NAMES=y
CONFIG_BINFMT_ELF=y
CONFIG_STANDALONE=y
CONFIG_PREVENT_FIRMWARE_BUILD=y
CONFIG_IOSCHED_NOOP=y
CONFIG_IOSCHED_AS=y
CONFIG_IDE=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDISK=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDECD=m
CONFIG_IDE_GENERIC=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEPCI=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_GENERIC=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDMA_PCI=y
CONFIG_IDEDMA_PCI_AUTO=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_PIIX=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDMA=y
CONFIG_IDEDMA_AUTO=y
CONFIG_SCSI=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SD=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SR=m
CONFIG_CHR_DEV_SG=m
CONFIG_SCSI_QLA2XXX=m
CONFIG_NET=y
CONFIG_PACKET=y
CONFIG_UNIX=y
CONFIG_INET=y
CONFIG_IP_TCPDIAG=y
CONFIG_NETDEVICES=y
CONFIG_DUMMY=m
CONFIG_NET_ETHERNET=y
CONFIG_MII=m
CONFIG_NET_PCI=y
CONFIG_EEPRO100=m
CONFIG_INPUT=y
CONFIG_INPUT_MOUSEDEV=y
CONFIG_INPUT_EVDEV=m
CONFIG_SOUND_GAMEPORT=y
CONFIG_SERIO=y
CONFIG_SERIO_I8042=y
CONFIG_INPUT_KEYBOARD=y
CONFIG_KEYBOARD_ATKBD=y
CONFIG_VT=y
CONFIG_VT_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_HW_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_UNIX98_PTYS=y
CONFIG_RTC=y
CONFIG_AGP=m
CONFIG_AGP_INTEL=m
CONFIG_AGP_NVIDIA=m
CONFIG_DRM=y
CONFIG_I2C=m
CONFIG_I2C_CHARDEV=m
CONFIG_I2C_ALGOBIT=m
CONFIG_I2C_NFORCE2=m
CONFIG_I2C_PIIX4=m
CONFIG_FB=y
CONFIG_FB_MODE_HELPERS=y
CONFIG_FB_VESA=y
CONFIG_VIDEO_SELECT=y
CONFIG_VGA_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_DUMMY_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_FONT_8x8=y
CONFIG_FONT_8x16=y
CONFIG_LOGO=y
CONFIG_LOGO_LINUX_MONO=y
CONFIG_LOGO_LINUX_VGA16=y
CONFIG_LOGO_LINUX_CLUT224=y
CONFIG_SOUND=m
CONFIG_USB=m
CONFIG_USB_DEVICEFS=y
CONFIG_USB_ARCH_HAS_HCD=y
CONFIG_USB_ARCH_HAS_OHCI=y
CONFIG_USB_UHCI_HCD=m
CONFIG_USB_AUDIO=m
CONFIG_USB_STORAGE=m
CONFIG_USB_STORAGE_DEBUG=y
CONFIG_USB_STORAGE_DATAFAB=y
CONFIG_USB_STORAGE_FREECOM=y
CONFIG_USB_STORAGE_ISD200=y
CONFIG_USB_STORAGE_DPCM=y
CONFIG_USB_STORAGE_HP8200e=y
CONFIG_USB_STORAGE_SDDR09=y
CONFIG_USB_STORAGE_SDDR55=y
CONFIG_USB_STORAGE_JUMPSHOT=y
CONFIG_USB_HID=m
CONFIG_USB_HIDINPUT=y
CONFIG_USB_HIDDEV=y
CONFIG_USB_KBD=m
CONFIG_USB_MOUSE=m
CONFIG_EXT2_FS=m
CONFIG_EXT3_FS=m
CONFIG_EXT3_FS_XATTR=y
CONFIG_EXT3_FS_POSIX_ACL=y
CONFIG_JBD=m
CONFIG_FS_MBCACHE=m
CONFIG_REISERFS_FS=m
CONFIG_FS_POSIX_ACL=y
CONFIG_XFS_FS=y
CONFIG_XFS_POSIX_ACL=y
CONFIG_MINIX_FS=m
CONFIG_DNOTIFY=y
CONFIG_ISO9660_FS=m
CONFIG_JOLIET=y
CONFIG_ZISOFS=y
CONFIG_ZISOFS_FS=m
CONFIG_PROC_FS=y
CONFIG_PROC_KCORE=y
CONFIG_SYSFS=y
CONFIG_DEVFS_FS=y
CONFIG_DEVFS_MOUNT=y
CONFIG_TMPFS=y
CONFIG_RAMFS=y
CONFIG_NFS_FS=m
CONFIG_NFS_V3=y
CONFIG_NFSD=m
CONFIG_NFSD_V3=y
CONFIG_NFSD_TCP=y
CONFIG_LOCKD=m
CONFIG_LOCKD_V4=y
CONFIG_EXPORTFS=m
CONFIG_SUNRPC=m
CONFIG_SMB_FS=m
CONFIG_SMB_NLS_DEFAULT=y
CONFIG_MSDOS_PARTITION=y
CONFIG_NLS=y
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_437=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_850=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_1=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_15=m
CONFIG_NLS_UTF8=m
CONFIG_DEBUG_KERNEL=y
CONFIG_MAGIC_SYSRQ=y
CONFIG_EARLY_PRINTK=y
CONFIG_CRC_CCITT=m
CONFIG_CRC32=y
CONFIG_LIBCRC32C=y
CONFIG_ZLIB_INFLATE=m
CONFIG_GENERIC_HARDIRQS=y
CONFIG_GENERIC_IRQ_PROBE=y
CONFIG_X86_BIOS_REBOOT=y
CONFIG_PC=y

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Re: Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec

[Richard Hughes]

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 12:57:33 +0100, Michael Brade wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> since at least kernel 2.6.9 I'm having a problem booting linux - it hangs 
> after this
> 
> Probing IDE interface ide0...
> hda: HITACHI_DK23DA-30, ATA DISK drive
> elevator: using anticipatory as default io scheduler
> ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
> Probing IDE interface ide1...
> hdc: TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-R2212, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
> ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
> 
> After about 30 seconds everything continues fine with
> 
> hda: max request size: 128KiB
> 
> I found additional lines in the log just before the line above:

Same here on 2.6.11-rc2-bk3 using a *Toshiba* Satellite Pro A10.

messages can be found here:

http://hughsie.no-ip.com/write/kernel/messages

please ask if you need any more info.

Richard Hughes

Re: Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec

[Benjamin Herrenschmidt]

On Tue, 2005-02-01 at 20:22 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 12:57:33 +0100, Michael Brade wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > since at least kernel 2.6.9 I'm having a problem booting linux - it hangs 
> > after this
> > 
> > Probing IDE interface ide0...
> > hda: HITACHI_DK23DA-30, ATA DISK drive
> > elevator: using anticipatory as default io scheduler
> > ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
> > Probing IDE interface ide1...
> > hdc: TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-R2212, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
> > ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
> > 
> > After about 30 seconds everything continues fine with
> > 
> > hda: max request size: 128KiB
> > 
> > I found additional lines in the log just before the line above:
> 
> Same here on 2.6.11-rc2-bk3 using a *Toshiba* Satellite Pro A10.
> 
> messages can be found here:
> 
> http://hughsie.no-ip.com/write/kernel/messages

This looks like bogus HW, or bogus list of IDE interfaces ...

The IDE layer waits up to 30 seconds for a device to drop it's busy bit,
which is necessary for some drives that aren't fully initialized yet.

I suspect in your case, it's reading "ff", which indicates either that
there is no hardware where the kernel tries to probe, or that there is
bogus IDE interfaces which don't properly have the D7 line pulled low so
that BUSY appears not set in absence of a drive.

I'm not sure how the list of intefaces is probed on this machine, that's
probably where the problem is.

Ben.

Re: Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec

[Richard Hughes]

Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh <at> kernel.crashing.org> writes:
> This looks like bogus HW, or bogus list of IDE interfaces ...

How can I test to see if this is the case?

> 
> The IDE layer waits up to 30 seconds for a device to drop it's busy bit,
> which is necessary for some drives that aren't fully initialized yet.

Sure, make sense.

> I suspect in your case, it's reading "ff", which indicates either that
> there is no hardware where the kernel tries to probe, or that there is
> bogus IDE interfaces which don't properly have the D7 line pulled low so
> that BUSY appears not set in absence of a drive.

Right. How do I find the value of D7?

> I'm not sure how the list of intefaces is probed on this machine, that's
> probably where the problem is.

Thanks, Richard Hughes

Re: Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec

[Con Kolivas]

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Richard Hughes wrote:
> Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh <at> kernel.crashing.org> writes:
> 
>>This looks like bogus HW, or bogus list of IDE interfaces ...
> 
> 
> How can I test to see if this is the case?
> 
> 
>>The IDE layer waits up to 30 seconds for a device to drop it's busy bit,
>>which is necessary for some drives that aren't fully initialized yet.
> 
> 
> Sure, make sense.
> 
> 
>>I suspect in your case, it's reading "ff", which indicates either that
>>there is no hardware where the kernel tries to probe, or that there is
>>bogus IDE interfaces which don't properly have the D7 line pulled low so
>>that BUSY appears not set in absence of a drive.
> 
> 
> Right. How do I find the value of D7?
> 
> 
>>I'm not sure how the list of intefaces is probed on this machine, that's
>>probably where the problem is.

I've read that people have had this problem go away if they disable this 
option:

< >     generic/default IDE chipset support

If you have chipset support for your IDE controller this isn't needed, 
and I'd recommend disabling it. The "why" it made the problem go away is 
something I can't answer.

Cheers,
Con

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Re: Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec

[Richard Hughes]

Con Kolivas <kernel <at> kolivas.org> writes:

> >>I'm not sure how the list of intefaces is probed on this machine, that's
> >>probably where the problem is.
> 
> I've read that people have had this problem go away if they disable this 
> option:
> 
> < >     generic/default IDE chipset support

Okay I'll try this tonight. I'm running a stock Fedora kernel at the moment
(rawhide) so this issue might affect more people than we think.
 
> If you have chipset support for your IDE controller this isn't needed, 
> and I'd recommend disabling it. The "why" it made the problem go away is 
> something I can't answer.

Richard.

Re: Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec

[Alan Cox]

On Maw, 2005-02-01 at 23:18, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-02-01 at 20:22 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote:
> > On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 12:57:33 +0100, Michael Brade wrote:
> I suspect in your case, it's reading "ff", which indicates either that
> there is no hardware where the kernel tries to probe, or that there is
> bogus IDE interfaces which don't properly have the D7 line pulled low so
> that BUSY appears not set in absence of a drive.
> 
> I'm not sure how the list of intefaces is probed on this machine, that's
> probably where the problem is.

Known, fixed

There is a patch that allows probing for ISA ide4,5,6 etc only if there
is
no PCI bus

RE: Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec

[Aleksey Gorelov]

Hi,
 
>-----Original Message-----
>From: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org 
>[mailto:linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Michael Brade
>Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:58 AM
>To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
>Subject: Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec
>
[snip]
>
>I found additional lines in the log just before the line above:
>
>Probing IDE interface ide2...
>Probing IDE interface ide3...
>Probing IDE interface ide4...
>Probing IDE interface ide5...
>
>But I only have ide0 and ide1. This problem persists even with 
>2.6.11-rc2. For 
>the last test I removed every option from the kernel that is 
>not needed, but 
>the problem stays. So I'm sure it's not because of ACPI or PNP 
>or the like.
>
>With 2.6.11-rc2 I get in my syslog:
>
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: ICH3M: chipset revision 2
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: ICH3M: not 100%% native mode: 
>will probe irqs 
>later
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel:     ide0: BM-DMA at 0xcfa0-0xcfa7, BIOS 
>settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel:     ide1: BM-DMA at 0xcfa8-0xcfaf, BIOS 
>settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:pio
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: Probing IDE interface ide0...
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: hda: HITACHI_DK23DA-30, ATA DISK drive
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: DEV: registering device: ID = 'ide0'
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: PM: Adding info for No Bus:ide0
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: DEV: registering device: ID = '0.0'
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: PM: Adding info for ide:0.0
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: bus ide: add device 0.0
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: Probing IDE interface ide1...
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: hdc: TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-R2212, 
>ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM 
>drive
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: DEV: registering device: ID = 'ide1'
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: PM: Adding info for No Bus:ide1
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: DEV: registering device: ID = '1.0'
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: PM: Adding info for ide:1.0
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: bus ide: add device 1.0
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: bus pci: add driver PIIX_IDE
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: bound device '0000:00:1f.1' to driver 
>'PIIX_IDE'
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: bus pci: add driver PCI_IDE
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: Probing IDE interface ide2...
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: Probing IDE interface ide3...
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: Probing IDE interface ide4...
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: ide4: Wait for ready failed 
>before probe !
>---> I guess the line above is the reason for the wait <---
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: Probing IDE interface ide5...
>Feb  1 11:30:02 newton kernel: hda: max request size: 128KiB
>

Since you don't care about anything except ide0 & ide1, try to add
the following to the kernel's command line:
ide2=noprobe ide3=noprobe ide4=noprobe ide5=noprobe

Aleks.

RE: Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec

[Aleksey Gorelov]

 
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Brade [mailto:brade@informatik.uni-muenchen.de] 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 11:55 AM
>To: Aleksey Gorelov
>Subject: Re: Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec
>
>Hi,
>
>> Since you don't care about anything except ide0 & ide1, try to add
>> the following to the kernel's command line:
>> ide2=noprobe ide3=noprobe ide4=noprobe ide5=noprobe
>Awesome! Thanks, booting is finally acceptably fast again :-) 
>Just strange 
>that it worked for the last 3 years (in fact, 7 years) with 
>just about every 
>kernel version that's out there... but I'm happy with the workaround.
>
Was it exact same hardware ?

>Cheers,
>-- 
>Michael Brade;                 KDE Developer, Student of 
>Computer Science
>  |-mail: echo brade !#|tr -d "c oh"|s\e\d 
>'s/e/\@/2;s/$/.org/;s/bra/k/2'
>  °--web: http://www.kde.org/people/michaelb.html
>
>KDE 3: The Next Generation in Desktop Experience
>

Re: Linux hangs during IDE initialization at boot for 30 sec

[Michael Brade]

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On Wednesday 02 February 2005 21:01, you wrote:
> >Awesome! Thanks, booting is finally acceptably fast again :-)
> >Just strange
> >that it worked for the last 3 years (in fact, 7 years) with
> >just about every
> >kernel version that's out there... but I'm happy with the workaround.
>
> Was it exact same hardware ?
Yes, absolutely.

cheers,
-- 
Michael Brade;                 KDE Developer, Student of Computer Science
  |-mail: echo brade !#|tr -d "c oh"|s\e\d 's/e/\@/2;s/$/.org/;s/bra/k/2'
  °--web: http://www.kde.org/people/michaelb.html

KDE 3: The Next Generation in Desktop Experience

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