public inbox for linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: "Brian O'Mahoney" <omb@khandalf.com>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Subject: Re: RT patch acceptance
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 02:57:12 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <429D07E8.1030802@khandalf.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1117564192.2569.83.camel@localhost.localdomain>


My understanding is that the RT patch is (a) optional, and (b)
significantly reduces the latency to get to user mode RT applications,
in user mode, to the order of a few 10s of u-seconds, _almost_
guaranteed,

- this solves lots of problems, either free, or for very little
  (commercial) overhead cost, I will come to other costs below.

Thus, unless anyone argues the code is wrong, damaging to stability
(after it is debugged in the normal way) or increases scheduling
overhead even when configured out, it is a Good Thing (TM).

Arguments about u-kernels, mono-kernels, APIs ... notwithstanding;
near HARD REAL TIME in a commodity OS is VERY VALUABLE.

Now lets turn to REALLY HARD REAL TIME and LIFE and MISSION critical
systems, Depending on your critical time, ie the maximum period from
input to reaction:

- it may not be possible, eg 1 fermato-second, today, you must do
  a system re-design, or maybe you can't build the system

- you may be forced to compute the response in dedicated hardware,
  measuring the gate-delay-sum to response

- you may be able to do it with one or more dedicated COTS cpus, ram ...
  by assembly coding the critical paths, and computing worst case
  timings

- or you may be able to use a RT commodity OS eg Linux, and process
  more than one thread on each processor

Each of these alternatives is progressively cheaper, in terms of
equipment and dedicated development time, and enables less skilled
developers to contribute to both initial development and on-going
maintenance.

Other considerations, eg no single point of failure, may well come into
play eg aircraft flight controls, particularly if the airframe is,
inherently, unstable.

So to summarize:

(a) Critical RT may need to be specially hardware engineered, always
(b) Good OS RT latency is a good thing and will significantly promote
    Linux

(c) I havnt heard any argument that the RT patch causes intolerable
    scheduler overhead, but neither has the increase been quantified.

I think it is very useful.


-- 
mit freundlichen Grüßen, Brian.


  parent reply	other threads:[~2005-06-01  0:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 345+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-05-23 23:14 RT patch acceptance Daniel Walker
2005-05-24  2:01 ` john cooper
2005-05-24  5:47 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-05-24  6:45   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24  8:03     ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-24  8:15       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24  8:27         ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-24  9:02           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24  9:14             ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-24 10:13               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24 18:05               ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-24 22:41                 ` Bill Huey
2005-05-24 23:44                   ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-25  0:10                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25  0:32                       ` K.R. Foley
2005-05-25  0:45                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-25  1:32                           ` K.R. Foley
2005-05-25  0:45                       ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-25  0:59                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25  1:02                           ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-25  1:43                             ` Andrew Morton
2005-05-25  2:02                               ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-25  2:20                                 ` Andrew Morton
2005-05-25  2:26                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-05-25  3:24                                     ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25  3:36                                       ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-25  5:05                                         ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25  6:09                                           ` RT patch acceptance (scheduler) Bill Huey
2005-05-25  7:00                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25  9:27                                               ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25 14:50                                                 ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25 15:12                                                   ` RT patch acceptance (scheduler) --- QUESTION Brian O'Mahoney
2005-05-25 15:36                                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-25  6:05                                       ` RT patch acceptance Ingo Molnar
2005-05-25 18:50                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-25  3:26                                   ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-25  5:17                                     ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25 13:20                                       ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-25  6:33                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-25  7:18                                     ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25  7:46                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-25 10:51                                         ` Con Kolivas
2005-05-25  8:29                                     ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2005-05-25 13:23                                     ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-25 17:17                                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-25 17:52                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-25 18:00                                       ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-26 19:32                                         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-26 20:11                                           ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-26 20:27                                             ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-26 20:46                                               ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-26 23:57                                                 ` john cooper
2005-05-26 21:28                                               ` Bill Huey
2005-05-26 23:44                                               ` john cooper
2005-05-27  5:19                                               ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-27  5:24                                                 ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-27  7:18                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27  8:07                                                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-27 15:56                                                     ` K.R. Foley
2005-05-28  3:59                                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-05-27  7:20                                                 ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-27  8:17                                                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-27 10:17                                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-05-27 17:46                                                   ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-27 12:08                                                 ` Bill Huey
2005-05-27 12:10                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27 20:36                                                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-27 12:43                                                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-27 23:36                                                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28  3:53                                                       ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-28  4:27                                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-28  4:43                                                           ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-28  5:53                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28  5:45                                                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28  6:49                                                           ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-29 11:37                                                             ` James Bruce
2005-05-29 12:23                                                               ` Brian O'Mahoney
2005-05-30  9:37                                                               ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-30 13:43                                                                 ` James Bruce
2005-05-30 14:21                                                                   ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-30 22:27                                                                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 22:54                                                                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 23:05                                                                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 23:29                                                                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-31  1:21                                                                       ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-31  2:09                                                                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31  9:12                                                                           ` James Bruce
2005-05-31  9:33                                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-31 10:23                                                                               ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31 10:48                                                                               ` James Bruce
2005-05-31 11:06                                                                                 ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-31 11:14                                                                                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-31 11:31                                                                                   ` Hari N
2005-05-31 16:59                                                                                   ` James Bruce
2005-05-31 12:09                                                                                 ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-31 16:18                                                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-31 16:42                                                                                     ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-31 17:11                                                                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 17:42                                                                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-31 17:51                                                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 18:29                                                                                           ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-31 20:54                                                                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 21:22                                                                                               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-31 21:47                                                                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-05-31 22:24                                                                                                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 23:41                                                                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-06-01  0:50                                                                                                     ` Zan Lynx
2005-06-01  2:38                                                                                                     ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-31 22:15                                                                                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 22:33                                                                                                   ` NZG
2005-05-31 23:14                                                                                                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31 21:33                                                                                               ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31 23:59                                                                                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2005-06-01  0:57                                                                                             ` Brian O'Mahoney [this message]
2005-06-01  6:23                                                                                             ` John Alvord
2005-06-01 11:41                                                                                               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-06-01  0:26                                                                                   ` Peter Chubb
2005-06-01  8:17                                                                                     ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-31 14:30                                                                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 15:07                                                                                   ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-31 16:11                                                                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-31 18:36                                                                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2005-05-31 20:45                                                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01  1:14                                                                                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-06-01  1:30                                                                                             ` Steven Rostedt
2005-06-01  1:50                                                                                               ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-06-01  2:42                                                                                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2005-06-01 12:18                                                                                           ` Paulo Marques
2005-06-01 13:51                                                                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 14:19                                                                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-06-01 14:32                                                                                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 14:39                                                                                                   ` Daniel Walker
2005-06-01 14:45                                                                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-06-01 14:57                                                                                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 14:45                                                                                                   ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 15:05                                                                                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 15:15                                                                                                       ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 15:32                                                                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 17:30                                                                                                         ` pi_test predicted results Daniel Walker
2005-06-01 17:58                                                                                                           ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 15:33                                                                                                       ` RT patch acceptance Karim Yaghmour
2005-06-01 15:38                                                                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 17:53                                                                                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-06-01 19:22                                                                                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 19:34                                                                                                               ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 19:59                                                                                                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 20:17                                                                                                                   ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01 20:32                                                                                                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 20:46                                                                                                                       ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01 21:07                                                                                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 21:29                                                                                                                           ` Nicolas Pitre
2005-06-01 21:39                                                                                                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 22:29                                                                                                                               ` Nicolas Pitre
2005-06-01 23:44                                                                                                                                 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-06-01 21:42                                                                                                                           ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01 21:59                                                                                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01 22:32                                                                                                                               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 23:02                                                                                                                                 ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01 23:19                                                                                                                                   ` Bill Huey
2005-06-02  8:50                                                                                                                                     ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 23:59                                                                                                                                   ` Bill Huey
2005-06-02  0:03                                                                                                                                     ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01 19:39                                                                                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-06-01 20:44                                                                                                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 20:56                                                                                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-06-01 21:09                                                                                                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 14:46                                                                                                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 14:56                                                                                                     ` Chris Friesen
2005-06-01 14:58                                                                                                     ` Paulo Marques
2005-06-01 15:17                                                                                                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 15:33                                                                                                         ` john cooper
2005-06-01 15:43                                                                                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 15:19                                                                                                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-06-01 14:59                                                                                                     ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 15:47                                                                                                       ` NZG
2005-06-01 15:58                                                                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01 17:20                                                                                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-01 18:19                                                                                                         ` Esben Nielsen
2005-06-01 15:09                                                                                                   ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-31  9:14                                                                         ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-30 23:32                                                                     ` James Bruce
2005-05-31  1:22                                                                       ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-31  2:06                                                                       ` Lee Revell
2005-05-31  2:26                                                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-31  7:34                                                                         ` James Bruce
2005-05-31 19:10                                                                       ` Elladan
2005-05-30 22:10                                                                 ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 17:53                                                               ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 19:24                                                                 ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-30 19:44                                                                   ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 21:44                                                                     ` Rich Walker
2005-05-30 22:45                                                                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 23:03                                                                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 23:12                                                                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 23:31                                                                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-31  0:00                                                                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 11:25                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-29  1:55                                                           ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-29  2:48                                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-05-29  2:58                                                               ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-29  4:08                                                                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-29 15:00                                                                   ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-29 17:50                                                                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-29 19:52                                                                       ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-29 21:16                                                                         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-30 13:01                                                                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31 14:30                                                             ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-28  6:55                                                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-05-28 10:22                                                         ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28 10:24                                                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-05-28 10:36                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28 10:34                                                           ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28 10:50                                                             ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28 10:48                                                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-05-28 11:01                                                                 ` Bill Huey
2005-05-28 11:32                                                                   ` Bill Huey
2005-05-27  9:03                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-05-27  9:14                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27  9:22                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-06-14  0:48                                                   ` Daniel Walker
2005-06-14  3:29                                                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-06-14  3:38                                                       ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-26 20:38                                           ` john cooper
2005-05-26 21:00                                             ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-26 21:23                                               ` john cooper
2005-05-26 20:52                                           ` Bill Huey
2005-05-26 21:09                                             ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-26 21:14                                             ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
     [not found]                                           ` <20050526200424.GA27162@elte.hu>
     [not found]                                             ` <20050527123529.GD86087@muc.de>
2005-05-27 12:48                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27 12:56                                                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-27 13:13                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27 13:31                                                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-27 13:44                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27 13:50                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-27 13:53                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-28 19:55                                                         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-28 20:57                                                           ` Lee Revell
2005-05-27 13:56                                                       ` Takashi Iwai
2005-05-27 14:27                                                         ` Duncan Sands
2005-05-27 16:35                                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-30  9:53                                                         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-30 10:33                                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-30 10:56                                                             ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-30 12:10                                                               ` what is the -RT tree Ingo Molnar
2005-05-30 12:40                                                                 ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-30 13:30                                                                   ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31 16:18                                                                   ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-30 11:15                                                             ` RT patch acceptance Thomas Gleixner
2005-05-27 13:34                                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-25  3:48                                 ` john cooper
2005-05-25 11:35                                   ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-25 13:14                                     ` john cooper
2005-05-25  6:09                               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-25  1:05                           ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25  2:37                   ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-25  2:36                     ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-25  2:56                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-25  3:05                       ` Chris Friesen
2005-05-25 19:24                       ` Tim Bird
2005-05-25  2:38                     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-25  2:58                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-25  2:51                         ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-25  6:15                     ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25 13:25                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-25  8:16                     ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-25 13:27                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-25 17:32                         ` Sven-Thorsten Dietrich
2005-05-25 18:16                           ` Chris Friesen
2005-05-27  2:29                           ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-25 16:01                     ` Jonathan Corbet
2005-05-24 11:22           ` K.R. Foley
2005-05-24 15:21             ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-24 15:41               ` K.R. Foley
2005-05-24 17:31                 ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-24 15:56               ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24 23:21               ` Bill Huey
2005-05-24 15:44         ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-24 15:47           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24 16:27           ` john cooper
2005-05-24 18:01         ` Daniel Walker
2005-05-24  9:38   ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-24 13:29     ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-24 13:58       ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-24 14:42         ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-24 15:23           ` Ingo Molnar
2005-05-24 16:17             ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-24 21:23               ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-24 22:31                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-24 22:54                   ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-24 23:41                   ` Lee Revell
     [not found]                     ` <1116979434.2912.63.camel@mindpipe>
2005-05-25  0:48                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-24 23:46                   ` Lee Revell
2005-05-25  3:38                     ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-24 23:49                   ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25 14:26                     ` Philippe Gerum
2005-05-24 14:47         ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-24 17:22         ` Philippe Gerum
2005-05-25  0:21           ` Lee Revell
2005-05-25  2:04     ` Sven Dietrich
2005-05-25 20:58 ` Tom Vier
2005-05-25 21:05   ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-25 21:10     ` NZG
2005-05-25 21:25     ` Tom Vier
2005-05-25 21:43       ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-25 21:45       ` Bill Huey
2005-05-25 21:43   ` Bill Huey
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-05-25  6:55 kus Kusche Klaus
2005-05-25  7:06 ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-25  7:58 kus Kusche Klaus
2005-06-01 17:56 ` Paul G. Allen
2005-05-25 18:10 YhLu
2005-05-25 18:51 ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-30  8:25 kus Kusche Klaus
2005-05-30  9:49 ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-30 10:16 kus Kusche Klaus
2005-05-30 10:43 ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-30 11:34   ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-30 11:58     ` Nick Piggin
2005-05-30 18:26       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-30 18:37       ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-30 18:56         ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 18:58           ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 19:33           ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-30 19:46             ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 20:00             ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-31  8:53               ` Esben Nielsen
2005-05-31 22:01               ` Bill Huey
2005-06-01  0:38                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 22:34           ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 22:49             ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-30 22:49               ` Bill Huey
2005-05-30 23:15                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2005-05-31  0:07                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2005-05-31 16:29                   ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-31 19:52                     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-31 20:16                       ` Steven Rostedt
2005-05-31 21:36                       ` Bill Huey
2005-05-31 19:55                     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-31 20:01                     ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-31 20:10                       ` Lee Revell
2005-05-31 20:14                       ` David Lang
2005-06-01  2:06                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-06-01  2:13                           ` David Lang
2005-05-30 16:33 ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-05-31  4:39 Saksena, Manas

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=429D07E8.1030802@khandalf.com \
    --to=omb@khandalf.com \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=mingo@elte.hu \
    --cc=omb@bluewin.ch \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox