[OT] mailing list management

[OT] mailing list management

[Lukasz Stelmach]

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Greetings Everyone.

Let me share with you my idea to make writing to this list kind of
easier. Several times I have happened to send replies to e-mails on this
list directly to their authors instead of the list. I suggest
(re)placing any Reply-To headers in incoming letters with Reply-To:
linux-kernel@... before delivering them to subscribers.

I know this may be done with procmail but not all of us may use it.

Best regards.
-- 
Było mi bardzo miło.                    Trzecia pospolita klęska, [...]
>Łukasz<                      Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska.  (c)PP


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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Jan-Benedict Glaw]

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On Wed, 2005-06-01 12:13:14 +0200, Lukasz Stelmach <stlman@poczta.fm> wrote:
> Let me share with you my idea to make writing to this list kind of
> easier. Several times I have happened to send replies to e-mails on this
> list directly to their authors instead of the list. I suggest
> (re)placing any Reply-To headers in incoming letters with Reply-To:
> linux-kernel@... before delivering them to subscribers.

This is considered harmful. Please just configure your email client
correctly.

MfG, JBG

-- 
Jan-Benedict Glaw       jbglaw@lug-owl.de    . +49-172-7608481             _ O _
"Eine Freie Meinung in  einem Freien Kopf    | Gegen Zensur | Gegen Krieg  _ _ O
 fuer einen Freien Staat voll Freier Bürger" | im Internet! |   im Irak!   O O O
ret = do_actions((curr | FREE_SPEECH) & ~(NEW_COPYRIGHT_LAW | DRM | TCPA));

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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Christoph Hellwig]

On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 12:22:11PM +0200, Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-06-01 12:13:14 +0200, Lukasz Stelmach <stlman@poczta.fm> wrote:
> > Let me share with you my idea to make writing to this list kind of
> > easier. Several times I have happened to send replies to e-mails on this
> > list directly to their authors instead of the list. I suggest
> > (re)placing any Reply-To headers in incoming letters with Reply-To:
> > linux-kernel@... before delivering them to subscribers.
> 
> This is considered harmful. Please just configure your email client
> correctly.

Or switch to a sane one ;-)

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Måns Rullgård]

Lukasz Stelmach <stlman@poczta.fm> writes:

> Greetings Everyone.
>
> Let me share with you my idea to make writing to this list kind of
> easier. Several times I have happened to send replies to e-mails on this
> list directly to their authors instead of the list. I suggest
> (re)placing any Reply-To headers in incoming letters with Reply-To:
> linux-kernel@... before delivering them to subscribers.

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

Use "reply all", "wide reply", or whatever mozilla thunderbird, which
you appear to be using, calls it.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@inprovide.com

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Lukasz Stelmach]

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Jan-Benedict Glaw napisał(a):

>> I suggest
>>(re)placing any Reply-To headers in incoming letters with Reply-To:
>>linux-kernel@... before delivering them to subscribers.
> > 
> This is considered harmful.

Could you explain your point of view. I am subscribed to a list wher
such a thing gets done and I haven't noticed any injures ;-)

> Please just configure your email client
> correctly.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is?

Well I might use "Reply to all" but then for example you would receive
two copies of this email. One in your private inbox and the other in the
list's box. Is this correct?

I would even suggest placing real name in the reply to field next to
list's address.

-- 
Było mi bardzo miło.                    Trzecia pospolita klęska, [...]
>Łukasz<                      Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska.  (c)PP


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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Lukasz Stelmach]

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Christoph Hellwig napisał(a):

>>>I suggest
>>>(re)placing any Reply-To headers in incoming letters with Reply-To:
>>>linux-kernel@... before delivering them to subscribers.
>>Please just configure your email client correctly.
> Or switch to a sane one ;-)

Oh come on ;-) Thunderbird isn't that bad. Let me use it.

-- 
Było mi bardzo miło.                    Trzecia pospolita klęska, [...]
>Łukasz<                      Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska.  (c)PP


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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Bernd Petrovitsch]

On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 12:34 +0200, Lukasz Stelmach wrote:
> Christoph Hellwig napisał(a):
> >>>I suggest
> >>>(re)placing any Reply-To headers in incoming letters with Reply-To:
> >>>linux-kernel@... before delivering them to subscribers.
> >>Please just configure your email client correctly.
> > Or switch to a sane one ;-)
> 
> Oh come on ;-) Thunderbird isn't that bad. Let me use it.

*You* can use any MUA you want. But *you* have to live and deal with
it's deficiences.

And read http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html as another one
noted already.

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Bernd Petrovitsch]

On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 12:31 +0200, Lukasz Stelmach wrote:
[...]
> Well I might use "Reply to all" but then for example you would receive
> two copies of this email. One in your private inbox and the other in the
> list's box. Is this correct?

Yes, if you want to answer directly and via mailing-list.
If you want to send only to the list, you just have to edit the To: and
Cc: field.
Alternatively you could implement a "Reply-List" Button or similar
feature into Thunderbird (or any other MUA you prefer) instead of
loading *your* work and problems onto lots of other people.

> I would even suggest placing real name in the reply to field next to
> list's address.

Sorry, but the writing the original senders name with the lists address
into any header field is insane and totally unacceptable.

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Jan-Benedict Glaw]

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On Wed, 2005-06-01 12:31:50 +0200, Lukasz Stelmach <stlman@poczta.fm> wrote:
> Jan-Benedict Glaw napisał(a):
> 
> >> I suggest
> >>(re)placing any Reply-To headers in incoming letters with Reply-To:
> >>linux-kernel@... before delivering them to subscribers.
> > > 
> > This is considered harmful.
> 
> Could you explain your point of view. I am subscribed to a list wher
> such a thing gets done and I haven't noticed any injures ;-)

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

> > Please just configure your email client
> > correctly.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> That is?
> 
> Well I might use "Reply to all" but then for example you would receive
> two copies of this email. One in your private inbox and the other in the
> list's box. Is this correct?

Reply-to-List is an option. For the LKML, it's even better to do a group
reply. This may allow the other party to answer in a fast manner, not
waiting for a delayed LKML email...

> I would even suggest placing real name in the reply to field next to
> list's address.

That's considered standard.

MfG, JBG

-- 
Jan-Benedict Glaw       jbglaw@lug-owl.de    . +49-172-7608481             _ O _
"Eine Freie Meinung in  einem Freien Kopf    | Gegen Zensur | Gegen Krieg  _ _ O
 fuer einen Freien Staat voll Freier Bürger" | im Internet! |   im Irak!   O O O
ret = do_actions((curr | FREE_SPEECH) & ~(NEW_COPYRIGHT_LAW | DRM | TCPA));

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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Paulo Marques]

Lukasz Stelmach wrote:
> [...]
> Well I might use "Reply to all" but then for example you would receive
> two copies of this email. One in your private inbox and the other in the
> list's box. Is this correct?

That is standard procedure.

The thing is, this list has a lot of traffic (as you might have noticed 
:), and sometimes people don't have time to go through all the emails, 
and just take special attention at mails directed at them personally.

I use thunderbird like you and I have a filter to mark as "Personal" 
emails that have my address in the "To or CC" fields. This way, if I 
stop reading emails for a few days, when I get back, the first thing I 
do is just filter "Personal" emails to see if there are any messages 
directed at me personally. Then I can just browse the rest of the 
messages without paying too much attention.

Another side effect is that this method speeds up conversations, where 
the people already involved in a thread receive emails directly without 
having to wait for the list server to dispatch its queue.

Anyway, see:

http://www.tux.org/lkml/#s3-20

for more information. (and the whole document while you're at it :)

-- 
Paulo Marques - www.grupopie.com

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be
made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr (1885 - 1962)

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Lukasz Stelmach]

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Måns Rullgård napisał(a):

>>I suggest
>>(re)placing any Reply-To headers in incoming letters with Reply-To:
>>linux-kernel@... before delivering them to subscribers.
> > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

That is quite a biased view due to a disaster the author mentions at the
end. Yes, I must admit that there are some points he *might* be right.
Nonetheles I wouldn't concider the drawbacks harmful in case of LKML.

> Use "reply all", "wide reply", or whatever mozilla thunderbird, which
> you appear to be using, calls it.

As I stated somewhere befor this is an option but it also adds the
author of the original message to the list of recipients thus making one
receive the same letter twice.

Does anyone know of any TB extension that implements reply-to-group button?

Best regards.
-- 
Było mi bardzo miło.                    Trzecia pospolita klęska, [...]
>Łukasz<                      Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska.  (c)PP


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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[MadMike]

Lukasz Stelmach wrote:

>
>As I stated somewhere befor this is an option but it also adds the
>author of the original message to the list of recipients thus making one
>receive the same letter twice.
>
>Does anyone know of any TB extension that implements reply-to-group button?
>  
>
It's not mailing list about TB. However, Thunderbird has "Reply All" 
button. This message was sent by using it :)

>Best regards.
>  
>

-- 
Best regards,
MadMike | madmike@madmike.ru

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Lukasz Stelmach]

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Bernd Petrovitsch napisał(a):
[...]
>>I would even suggest placing real name in the reply to field next to
>>list's address.
> Sorry, but the writing the original senders name with the lists address
> into any header field is insane and totally unacceptable.

OK. I understand your and other's point of view. I just wanted to ask if
this is not a good idea. You say no, I accept it.

These ideas make the mailing list resemble behavior of FidoNet echos and
GoldEd which were my first contact with e-mail conferences and I used to
like the way they worked. But that is completly different story.

-- 
Było mi bardzo miło.                    Trzecia pospolita klęska, [...]
>Łukasz<                      Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska.  (c)PP


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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[MadMike]

MadMike wrote:

>
>
> Lukasz Stelmach wrote:
>
>>
>> As I stated somewhere befor this is an option but it also adds the
>> author of the original message to the list of recipients thus making one
>> receive the same letter twice.
>>
>> Does anyone know of any TB extension that implements reply-to-group 
>> button?
>>  
>>
> It's not mailing list about TB. However, Thunderbird has "Reply All" 
> button. This message was sent by using it :)

oops... I should be more attentively... There's no such button that you 
need... Just code it :)

>> Best regards.
>>  
>>
>

-- 
Best regards,
MadMike | madmike@madmike.ru

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Matthias Andree]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005, Lukasz Stelmach wrote:

> >>I suggest
> >>(re)placing any Reply-To headers in incoming letters with Reply-To:
> >>linux-kernel@... before delivering them to subscribers.
> > > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
> 
> That is quite a biased view due to a disaster the author mentions at the
> end. Yes, I must admit that there are some points he *might* be right.
> Nonetheles I wouldn't concider the drawbacks harmful in case of LKML.

Redirecting discussions to the list that are better left outside, the
incapability of other mailers to reply directly if Reply-To is set, are
important points.

-- 
Matthias Andree

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Lukasz Stelmach]

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Paulo Marques napisał(a):

> Another side effect is that this method speeds up conversations, where
> the people already involved in a thread receive emails directly without
> having to wait for the list server to dispatch its queue.

To be honest, please tell how big is the speed-up? 0:30 againts 2:17?
Come on :) (that is a rethorical question ;)

> http://www.tux.org/lkml/#s3-20
> for more information. (and the whole document while you're at it :)

Shame on me I haven't done it yet.

Thank you everyone for your attention.

EOT
-- 
Było mi bardzo miło.                    Trzecia pospolita klęska, [...]
>Łukasz<                      Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska.  (c)PP


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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Bernd Petrovitsch]

On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 12:53 +0200, Lukasz Stelmach wrote:
[...]
> That is quite a biased view due to a disaster the author mentions at the
> end. Yes, I must admit that there are some points he *might* be right.

FWIW but I read a similar "disaster" yesterday on another mailinglist
where Repl-To-Munging is enabled.

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Jesper Juhl]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2005, Lukasz Stelmach wrote:

> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:13:14 +0200 
> From: Lukasz Stelmach <stlman@poczta.fm>
> To: LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
> Subject: [OT] mailing list management
> 
> Greetings Everyone.
> Let me share with you my idea to make writing to this list kind of
> easier. Several times I have happened to send replies to e-mails on this
> list directly to their authors instead of the list. I suggest
> (re)placing any Reply-To headers in incoming letters with Reply-To:
> linux-kernel@... before delivering them to subscribers.

Please don't do this. Just use "Reply to all"... If you start messing up 
Reply-To: you risk loosing the possibility of getting back to the person 
who send the mail.  I sometimes send emails to LKML from work, and 
naturally I put my home email addr. in Reply-To: so people who respond 
send their reply to a location where I'll actually see it.. Also when I'm 
travelling I may send mails from locations I'll never re-visit and use 
temporary addresses (or other peoples addresses), without being able to 
set Reply-To: properly, I'd never get the replies.

There are lots of other good reasons not to do this. I'd suggest you read 
this link :  http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html


-- 
Jesper Juhl

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Paul Jakma]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2005, Lukasz Stelmach wrote:

> Well I might use "Reply to all" but then for example you would 
> receive two copies of this email. One in your private inbox and the 
> other in the list's box. Is this correct?

That's not your problem.

The person you are replying to can/may:

- /want/ the direct copy (this is the case for quite a few people on
   this list)

- filter incoming mail to supress duplicates

- set a Reply-To: linux-kernel@.... if they dont want personal copy

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
Fortune:
You can observe a lot just by watching.
 		-- Yogi Berra

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Lukasz Stelmach]

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Paul Jakma napisał(a):

> The person you are replying to can/may:
> 
> - /want/ the direct copy (this is the case for quite a few people on
>   this list)

I prefere, and I do it, explicit asking for a CC.

> - filter incoming mail to supress duplicates

It is a lot easier to find personal mails than to suppress dupes.
In the former case you can look at References or IRT fields and in the
later you have to *keep* a list of Message-IDs and search it everytime
you receive a letter.

And direct replying generates more traffic.

I started this thread because I never liked to receive personal
duplicates of mails sent to lists. That is why I decided to ask you for
your opinion.

EOT
-- 
Było mi bardzo miło.                    Trzecia pospolita klęska, [...]
>Łukasz<                      Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska.  (c)PP


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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Måns Rullgård]

Lukasz Stelmach <stlman@poczta.fm> writes:

> Paul Jakma wrote:
>
>> The person you are replying to can/may:
>> 
>> - /want/ the direct copy (this is the case for quite a few people on
>>   this list)
>
> I prefere, and I do it, explicit asking for a CC.
>
>> - filter incoming mail to supress duplicates
>
> It is a lot easier to find personal mails than to suppress dupes.
> In the former case you can look at References or IRT fields and in the
> later you have to *keep* a list of Message-IDs and search it everytime
> you receive a letter.

My mail server (cyrus imapd) automatically suppresses duplicates with
the default settings.  I suppose other mail servers also have this
functionality.

> And direct replying generates more traffic.

Not necessarily.  Many mailing lists are configured not to send mail
to those already in the To or Cc headers.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@inprovide.com

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Bodo Eggert]

Lukasz Stelmach <stlman@poczta.fm> wrote:
> Måns Rullgård napisa?(a):

>> Use "reply all", "wide reply", or whatever mozilla thunderbird, which
>> you appear to be using, calls it.

> As I stated somewhere befor this is an option but it also adds the
> author of the original message to the list of recipients thus making one
> receive the same letter twice.

That's intended. Many readers and posters aren't subscribed.
E.g. I read it using news:linux.kernel, since my mail program can't handle
threads well enough. (Besides that, NNTP causes much less traffic for the
same amount of messages:). OTOH, I'd like to get replies to my postings per
mail, since my newsreader is bad for replying to lkml.

Workaround:
--- ~/.procmailrc ---
:0 Wh: msgid.lock
| formail -D 128 .msgid.cache
---
(adjust the 128 as needed)
-- 
Ich danke GMX dafür, die Verwendung meiner Adressen mittels per SPF
verbreiteten Lügen zu sabotieren.

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Paul Jakma]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2005, Lukasz Stelmach wrote:

> I prefere, and I do it, explicit asking for a CC.

No need - set a Reply-To to point back at the list.

Reply-To isn't ideal, primarily because of dumb MUAs, but it works. 
There ought to be a better way to indicate this preference, but there 
isn't unfortunately.

> And direct replying generates more traffic.

ROFL. Direct replies are miniscule compared to regular list traffic 
which itself is less than the traffic generated by spam.

> I started this thread because I never liked to receive personal 
> duplicates of mails sent to lists. That is why I decided to ask you 
> for your opinion.

Use Reply-To -> list luke.

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
Fortune:
Don't shoot until you're sure you both aren't on the same side.

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Stefan Smietanowski]

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Hash: SHA1

Lukasz Stelmach wrote:
> Bernd Petrovitsch napisał(a):
> [...]
> 
>>>I would even suggest placing real name in the reply to field next to
>>>list's address.
>>
>>Sorry, but the writing the original senders name with the lists address
>>into any header field is insane and totally unacceptable.
> 
> 
> OK. I understand your and other's point of view. I just wanted to ask if
> this is not a good idea. You say no, I accept it.
> 
> These ideas make the mailing list resemble behavior of FidoNet echos and
> GoldEd which were my first contact with e-mail conferences and I used to
> like the way they worked. But that is completly different story.
> 

You're also missing another point.

If someone sends a mail to the list without being subscribed to it,
and then you would write only to the list, the person asking the
original question wouldn't get the answer.

In a small, closed list reply-to: set to the list is good, but not on
an open list with people not subscribed answer.

// Stefan
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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Lukasz Stelmach]

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Stefan Smietanowski napisał(a):

>>>These ideas make the mailing list resemble behavior of FidoNet echos and
>>>GoldEd which were my first contact with e-mail conferences and I used to
>>>like the way they worked. But that is completly different story.
>>>
> 
> 
> You're also missing another point.
> 
> If someone sends a mail to the list without being subscribed to it,
> and then you would write only to the list, the person asking the
> original question wouldn't get the answer.

Explicit CC request + self-CC the e-mail sent to the list in most cases
will suffice. As far as TB is concerned this also needs 'Reply All' to
be used but self-cc seems to me semantically more logical. Especially in
the case Jasper has given when he sends a mail to LKML from a different
place (work) than he receives it.

> In a small, closed list reply-to: set to the list is good, but not on
> an open list with people not subscribed answer.

I may agree that.

What I am really against is the dogmathic point of view presented in the
document about RT header that is linked from the FAQ.

-- 
Było mi bardzo miło.                    Trzecia pospolita klęska, [...]
>Łukasz<                      Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska.  (c)PP


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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Lukasz Stelmach]

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Måns Rullgård napisał(a):

>>It is a lot easier to find personal mails than to suppress dupes.
[...]
> My mail server (cyrus imapd) automatically suppresses duplicates with
> the default settings.

Even in two different folders?

>>And direct replying generates more traffic.
> 
> Not necessarily.  Many mailing lists are configured not to send mail
> to those already in the To or Cc headers.

IMHO the CC is the best way to deal with the list for unsubscribers.

-- 
Było mi bardzo miło.                    Trzecia pospolita klęska, [...]
>Łukasz<                      Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska.  (c)PP


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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Lukasz Stelmach]

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Paul Jakma napisał(a):
> On Wed, 1 Jun 2005, Lukasz Stelmach wrote:
> 
>> I prefere, and I do it, explicit asking for a CC.
> 
> 
> No need - set a Reply-To to point back at the list.
> 
> Reply-To isn't ideal, primarily because of dumb MUAs, but it works.
> There ought to be a better way to indicate this preference, but there
> isn't unfortunately.

CC is muc better

From: someone@unsubscribed
To: mailing-list
CC: someone@unsubscribed
Reply-To: mailing-list

From: someone@subscribed
To: mailing-list
CC: someone@subscribed.that.wants.a.personal.copy.of.replies
Reply-To: mailing-list

From: someone@subscribed
To: mailing-list
Reply-To: mailing-list


When we use Reply All to answer all of this messages we get quit a
senisble behavior. Far more sensible than answering to the list and
personally to everyone.

>> And direct replying generates more traffic.
> 
> ROFL. Direct replies are miniscule compared to regular list traffic
> which itself is less than the traffic generated by spam.

Does it mean that we shoudn't try conserve the bandwidth just because
there is spam?

-- 
Było mi bardzo miło.                    Trzecia pospolita klęska, [...]
>Łukasz<                      Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska.  (c)PP


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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Måns Rullgård]

Lukasz Stelmach <stlman@poczta.fm> writes:

> Måns Rullgård wrote:
>
>>>It is a lot easier to find personal mails than to suppress dupes.
> [...]
>> My mail server (cyrus imapd) automatically suppresses duplicates with
>> the default settings.
>
> Even in two different folders?

Yes.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@inprovide.com

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Keith Owens]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 11:49:08 +0100, 
Paulo Marques <pmarques@grupopie.com> wrote:
>The thing is, this list has a lot of traffic (as you might have noticed 
>:), and sometimes people don't have time to go through all the emails, 
>and just take special attention at mails directed at them personally.

"There is always more than one way to do things".

~/.procmailrc

#################################################################
# If my address appears in To:, Cc: or Bcc: then add X-To-Me: YES
#################################################################

:0 Whc
| formail -c -x to -x cc -x bcc | egrep -i 'some expression' > /dev/null
:0 aWhf
| formail -A 'X-Personal: YES'

Replace some expression with a grep expression that matches all email
addresses that you consider personal.  Such mail on any list gets the
line 'X-Personal: YES' added, which makes it trivial to file or index
them separately.

To suppress duplicate messages, also in .procmailrc

:0 Wh: msgid.lock
| formail -D 20000 msgid.cache

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Michelle Konzack]

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Am 2005-06-01 12:31:50, schrieb Lukasz Stelmach:
> Jan-Benedict Glaw napisa?(a):

> > Please just configure your email client
> > correctly.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> That is?
> 
> Well I might use "Reply to all" but then for example you would receive
> two copies of this email. One in your private inbox and the other in the
> list's box. Is this correct?

No, because I know this stupid people sending me every day tonns of
unrequested CCs which make relpying harder and I have a procmailfilter
which do:

  __( '/home/michelle.konzack/.procmailrc' )____________________________
 /
| PATH=$HOME/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:
| MAILDIR=$HOME/Maildir
| DEFAULT=$MAILDIR/.SPAM/
<snip>
| INCLUDERC=$HOME/.procmail/FLT_cced

which is:

      __( '/home/michelle.konzack/.procmail/FLT_cced' )________
     /
    | :0
    | * ^Envelope-to:.*(linux4michelle|sun4michelle)@freenet.de
    | {
    <snip>
    |     :0
    |     * ^TO_.*(linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org|<snip>)
    |     .ATTENTION.FLT_cced/
    |     
    |     :0
    |     * ^TO_.*(lists.debian.org)
    |     .ATTENTION.FLT_cced/
    | }
     \_________________________________________________________

| INCLUDERC=$HOME/.procmail/ML_linux

where I have:

      __( '/home/michelle.konzack/.procmail/ML_linux' )________
     /
    | :0
    | * ^X-Mailing-List:.*(linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org|<snip>)
    | {
    |     :0
    |     * ^X-Mailing-List:.*(linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org)
    |     .ML_linux.linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org/
    <snip>
    | }
     \_________________________________________________________

| :0
| * ^To:.*(linux4michelle|<snip>)@freenet.de
| {
|   :0
|   * ^From:.*(web-tools@nas.nasa.gov)
|     * ^To:.*(linux4michelle)
|     .Linux.Astronomie_NASA/
|   
|   :0
|   * ^To:.*(linux4michelle@freenet.de)
|   .Linux/
| }
 \______________________________________________________________________

Greetings
Michelle

-- 
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
Michelle Konzack   Apt. 917                  ICQ #328449886
                   50, rue de Soultz         MSM LinuxMichi
0033/3/88452356    67100 Strasbourg/France   IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)

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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Lukasz Stelmach]

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Måns Rullgård napisał(a):

>>>My mail server (cyrus imapd) automatically suppresses duplicates with
>>>the default settings.
>>
>>Even in two different folders?
> 
> Yes.

Can I disable it. Sometimes I woud like to have dupes?


-- 
Było mi bardzo miło.                    Trzecia pospolita klęska, [...]
>Łukasz<                      Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska.  (c)PP


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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Måns Rullgård]

Lukasz Stelmach <stlman@poczta.fm> writes:

> Måns Rullgård wrote:
>
>>>>My mail server (cyrus imapd) automatically suppresses duplicates with
>>>>the default settings.
>>>
>>>Even in two different folders?
>> 
>> Yes.
>
> Can I disable it. Sometimes I woud like to have dupes?

Yes, it can be disabled entirely, or (IIRC) selectively using Sieve
scripts.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@inprovide.com

Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Lukasz Stelmach]

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Keith Owens napisał(a):
> On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 11:49:08 +0100, 
> Paulo Marques <pmarques@grupopie.com> wrote:
>>The thing is, this list has a lot of traffic (as you might have noticed 
>>:), and sometimes people don't have time to go through all the emails, 
>>and just take special attention at mails directed at them personally.
> 
> 
> "There is always more than one way to do things".

Yes I like perl.

> ~/.procmailrc
[...]
That is why i suggested seting R-T as

Reply-To: Real Name <linux-kernel@...>

Then one replies

To: Real Name <linux-kernel@...>

and it is even easier to find personal (that is how fidonet echos work
what mailing lists and usenet groups lack). For unsubscribers there is
Cc header and a rule that *we* shoud use "reply all" operation rather
than "reply".

1. No duplicate messages running through the net. [1]
2. Personal messages are easy distinguishible.
3. Unsubscribers can receive answers.

And what if R-T is completly removed from e-mails sent to the subscirbers?

[1] If you send a CCed message *you* send it several times to the server
and it is *your* connection which gets overloaded first.

Best regards.
-- 
Było mi bardzo miło.                    Trzecia pospolita klęska, [...]
>Łukasz<                      Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska.  (c)PP


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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Jochen Striepe]

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    Hello,

On 03 Jun 2005, Lukasz Stelmach wrote:
> That is why i suggested seting R-T as
> Reply-To: Real Name <linux-kernel@...>
[...]
> 1. No duplicate messages running through the net. [1]
> 2. Personal messages are easy distinguishible.
> 3. Unsubscribers can receive answers.

You seem not to understand. The points you list are just attempts to
make things easier which do work and are quite easy already. You forget
(or ignore) that Reply-To:-Munging *breaks* things that currently work.

Please stop this discussion, it leads to nothing.


So long,

Jochen.
-- 
It's really hard to write docs for people who cannot read...
[Michael Shalayeff on misc@openbsd.org]

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Re: [OT] mailing list management

[Matti Aarnio]

On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 12:13:14PM +0200, Lukasz Stelmach wrote:
> Greetings Everyone.
> 
> Let me share with you my idea to make writing to this list kind of
> easier. Several times I have happened to send replies to e-mails on this
> list directly to their authors instead of the list. I suggest
> (re)placing any Reply-To headers in incoming letters with Reply-To:
> linux-kernel@... before delivering them to subscribers.
> 
> I know this may be done with procmail but not all of us may use it.

This is a topic that resurfaces every now and then.
Knowing system postmasters opinnion rather well, I can say with
lots of confidence that: IT WILL NOT HAPPEN

Others have given you FAQ pointers.


> Best regards.
> -- 
> By?o mi bardzo mi?o.                    Trzecia pospolita kl?ska, [...]
> >?ukasz<                      Ju? nie katolicka lecz z?odziejska.  (c)PP

  /Matti Aarnio <matti.aarnio@zmailer.org>