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From: Karim Yaghmour <karim@opersys.com>
To: Glauber de Oliveira Costa <glommer@gmail.com>
Cc: Thomas Horsten <thomas@horsten.com>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:06:18 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <43E0DC7A.8020109@opersys.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5d6222a80601301143q3b527effq526482837e04ee5a@mail.gmail.com>


Glauber de Oliveira Costa wrote:
> I may be missing the point here, (In case you're more than welcome to
> correct me), but ... Why? Can't a software license restrict the usage
> of the software? In which ways do you think the sentence "Don't use in
> DRM'ed hardware" differs from sentences like  "Not allowed in country
> X",  "Don't use for commercial purposes",  and other alikes ? I think
> that saying in which hardware your software can or cannot run is a
> pretty valid license term (without messing with the question about it
> being the right thing to do here).

You're right, I didn't think it through properly ... I guess what I'm
trying to say is that the more restrictions a licensed work imposes
on its runtime environment, the less free it is. In my view of freedom,
a "free" license should indeed protect the software licensed under it,
but it should be as unintrussive with regards to runtime as possible
-- simply because the original author may not have anticipated all the
possible runtime scenarios. As a user, I should be free to decide what
hardware I'd like to see this software run on. In that regard, I think
GPLv2 strikes the right balance, while GPLv3 attempts to solve one
issue by introducing a lot of other problems.

... and bearing in mind that there are legitimate non-DRM embedded and
security applications where runtime software restrictions are required/
inherent ... think:
- software controlling consumer appliances such as cars, etc.
- masked-ROM software (non-flashable)
- access-control hardware
- high-end IT security
- etc.

FWIW, private discussions with RMS a few years back showed a clear
misunderstanding of how important embedded devices are. It really
seems to me that the FSF's newly found urgency for solving an
increasingly disturbing problem (DRM) is unfortunately not based on
internal familiarity with the embedded world. Contrary to the FSF's
long-standing experience of having its software used in workstations
and servers, it's only very recently that its software, and software
licensed under licenses it publishes, has been found in embedded
devices -- Though GCC & co have been used to cross-build for embedded
devices for a very long time, this is different from having the
actual software run on the gizmo.

This argument, in itself, doesn't diminish the value of the FSF's
position. They are indeed intent on defending software freedom and
in that I cannot condem them. However, I really think that those
championing this new wording should think through all the
possibilities. As a user, I clearly hate DRM and would indeed like
to see it disappear. As a developer, and an active participant in
the development of many kinds of embedded/customized systems, I
also see that the new wording imposes unrealistic limitations to
legitimate designs. IOW: right cause, wrong venue.

Karim
-- 
President  / Opersys Inc.
Embedded Linux Training and Expertise
www.opersys.com  /  1.866.677.4546

  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-02-01 15:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 214+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-01-20 16:49 GPL V3 and Linux Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-20 19:11 ` Stephen Hemminger
2006-01-20 19:34   ` Patrick McLean
2006-01-20 18:22     ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-20 18:30       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-20 19:45     ` Alan Cox
2006-01-25 18:46     ` GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Marc Perkel
2006-01-25 17:14       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-25 17:30         ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-25 19:24           ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-25 19:50             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-25 20:44               ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-25 21:20                 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-25 22:39                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-25 23:26                     ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 17:59                     ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-26 16:28                       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-26 18:25                       ` Filip Brcic
     [not found]                         ` <Pine.LNX.4.64.0601261233150.17225@turbotaz.ourhouse>
2006-01-26 16:55                           ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-26 22:54                             ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27  2:15                             ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27  2:23                               ` Dave Jones
2006-01-27  2:37                                 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27  2:53                                   ` Dave Jones
2006-01-27 19:50                                     ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27  3:40                                   ` Diego Calleja
2006-01-27  7:34                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-01-27  8:09                               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-27 13:38                               ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 19:50                                 ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27 20:30                                   ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 21:12                                     ` David Schwartz
2006-01-27 19:30                                       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-27 15:56                               ` Roland Kuhn
2006-01-26 18:52                         ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-26 18:53                       ` Diego Calleja
2006-01-26 18:57                         ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 19:22                           ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 19:52                             ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 20:04                               ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 20:21                                 ` Chase Venters
2006-01-26 20:51                                   ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-26 22:28                                   ` GPL V3 and Linux - V3 adds new restrictions Marc Perkel
     [not found]                                     ` <20060127015811.03beb9e5.seanlkml@sympatico.ca>
2006-01-27  6:58                                       ` sean
2006-01-28  4:44                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-26 19:33                           ` GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Diego Calleja
2006-01-26 18:57                         ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-26 22:16                     ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26 22:23                       ` Al Viro
2006-01-28  1:33                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28 19:45                         ` Michael Buesch
2006-01-28 19:04                           ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-27 10:46                     ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 13:39                       ` Al Viro
2006-01-27 14:00                         ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 14:18                           ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 14:42                             ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 15:20                               ` Al Viro
2006-01-27 15:32                                 ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-27 14:46                           ` Chris Bergeron
2006-01-27 14:47                           ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-28  1:53                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28 23:23                           ` Horst von Brand
2006-01-28  1:46                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-30  7:00                           ` Giacomo A. Catenazzi
2006-01-31 23:18                             ` David Schwartz
2006-01-28  4:39                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28  4:57                         ` Chris Adams
2006-01-28 20:38                         ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-01-29 14:30                         ` Matthias Urlichs
2006-01-28 15:38                       ` Florian Weimer
2006-01-27 21:33                     ` Thomas Horsten
2006-01-28  5:38                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-01-28  8:31                         ` Thomas Horsten
2006-01-28 10:37                           ` Peter Read
2006-01-30 18:15                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-01-30 19:43                             ` Glauber de Oliveira Costa
2006-01-30 22:00                               ` Filip Brcic
     [not found]                                 ` <5d6222a80601302012v22196faci3ce81320fb534f30@mail.gmail.com>
2006-02-01 15:30                                   ` Georg C. F. Greve
2006-02-01 16:32                                 ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-01 22:31                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01 23:43                                     ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-02  0:18                                     ` Alan Cox
2006-02-02  8:39                                     ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02  9:00                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02  9:32                                         ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 10:30                                           ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-04 17:45                                             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-02-02 10:46                                           ` James Bruce
2006-02-02 11:13                                             ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 12:31                                               ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-02 13:31                                                 ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02 16:23                                                   ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-02 11:50                                           ` David Schwartz
2006-02-02 16:04                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 17:40                                             ` Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias
2006-02-02  9:37                                         ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 14:45                                           ` Gene Heskett
2006-02-02 14:38                                         ` Alan Cox
2006-02-02 16:19                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 17:08                                             ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 17:44                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 17:54                                                 ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 18:12                                                   ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-02-02 18:27                                                     ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-06 16:11                                                       ` Horst von Brand
2006-02-02 18:53                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02 19:20                                                     ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 19:46                                                       ` Mark v Wolher
2006-02-02 19:52                                                       ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-02 23:07                                                         ` Pierre Ossman
2006-02-02 23:52                                                           ` Karim Yaghmour
2006-02-03  8:14                                                       ` Helge Hafting
2006-02-02 18:13                                                 ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-02-02 18:49                                                   ` Lee Revell
2006-02-02 19:11                                                     ` Christopher Friesen
2006-02-02 19:18                                                       ` Lee Revell
2006-02-05  3:58                                                       ` Luke-Jr
2006-02-05  7:06                                                         ` Zan Lynx
2006-02-06 21:07                                                         ` David Schwartz
2006-02-06 22:38                                                           ` Kyle Moffett
2006-02-07 13:44                                                             ` Luke-Jr
2006-02-07 13:40                                                           ` Luke-Jr
2006-02-03 21:33                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2006-02-01 16:06                               ` Karim Yaghmour [this message]
2006-02-02 22:02                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-02-02 22:24                                   ` Lee Revell
2006-02-02 23:04                                   ` Karim Yaghmour
     [not found]                     ` <1138387136.26811.8.camel@localhost>
2006-01-28  2:06                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28  5:22                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-28  6:25                           ` Al Viro
2006-01-28 23:14                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-30 11:26                         ` Alan Cox
2006-01-31 17:57                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 17:24                             ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 19:07                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 18:48                                 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 20:38                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 19:57                                     ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-02-02 19:52                                       ` Matan Peled
     [not found]                                         ` <3e1162e60602021207o5893055fqe8a20c99ff8a19b6@mail.gmail.com>
2006-02-02 20:29                                           ` Matan Peled
2006-01-31 21:45                                     ` Paul Jakma
2006-01-31 21:47                                       ` Stephen Hemminger
2006-01-31 22:25                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01  6:52                                       ` Gene Heskett
2006-01-31 22:04                                     ` Rene Herman
2006-01-31 23:08                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-01-31 23:32                                         ` Paul Jakma
2006-02-01  0:20                                         ` Paul Jakma
2006-02-01 14:29                                         ` Rene Herman
2006-02-01 22:13                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01 23:29                                             ` Rene Herman
2006-02-02  0:01                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-02  0:16                                                 ` Alan Cox
2006-02-02  1:08                                                 ` David Schwartz
2006-02-02  9:50                                                 ` Rene Herman
2006-02-02  6:39                                               ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-02  6:57                                                 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-02-02  7:11                                                   ` David Schwartz
2006-02-03  3:56                                                     ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-03  5:35                                                       ` David Schwartz
2006-02-03 13:31                                                         ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-03  3:35                                                   ` Andrew James Wade
2006-02-03  5:35                                                     ` David Schwartz
2006-02-01 22:46                                         ` David Schwartz
2006-02-02 12:31                                           ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-01-31 23:48                                     ` Alan Cox
2006-02-01  0:18                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-01  0:45                                         ` Alan Cox
2006-01-31 19:55                                 ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-31 19:10                                   ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 20:16                                     ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-31 19:27                                       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-31 23:57                                 ` Alan Cox
2006-02-01 10:01                                   ` Rogier Wolff
2006-02-01 13:59                                     ` GPL V3 -- PLEA FOR SANITY Theodore Ts'o
2006-01-31 20:32                             ` GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Diego Calleja
2006-01-31 20:43                               ` Josh Boyer
2006-02-01  0:06                             ` Alan Cox
2006-02-01  1:02                               ` Marc Perkel
2006-01-26  0:53                 ` Kurt Wall
2006-01-21  2:27 ` GPL V3 and Linux Alexander Shishckin
2006-01-21  4:08   ` Chase Venters
2006-01-21  5:56     ` Alexander Shishckin
2006-01-21 18:28       ` Chase Venters
2006-01-21 19:01       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-01-21 20:43       ` Horst von Brand
2006-01-23 22:10         ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-24  0:34           ` Chase Venters
2006-01-24  0:52           ` Harald Arnesen
2006-01-24  1:55             ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-01-24  3:08               ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-24  9:10               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-24 15:49               ` Alan Cox
2006-01-24  9:37             ` Wartan Hachaturow
2006-01-24 10:23           ` David Schwartz
2006-01-24 10:38             ` Lee Revell
2006-01-24 13:53             ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-01-24 16:13               ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-01-25  1:21                 ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-01-25  9:42                   ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-25 16:02                     ` [OT] " Steven Rostedt
2006-01-27  3:10                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-27  9:54                       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-27 10:13                         ` Bas Westerbaan
2006-01-27 10:25                           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-27 13:29                         ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-27 17:51                         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-28 11:38                           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-27  2:01                   ` Rik van Riel
2006-01-28 20:18                   ` Graham Murray
2006-01-23  9:09       ` Helge Hafting
2006-01-23  9:52       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-02-02 18:48 GPL V3 and Linux - Dead Copyright Holders Shawn Starr

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