From: Daniel Arai <arai@vmware.com>
To: Zachary Amsden <zach@vmware.com>
Cc: Chris Wright <chrisw@sous-sol.org>, Andi Kleen <ak@suse.de>,
virtualization@lists.osdl.org, Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.xensource.com>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>, Dan Hecht <dhecht@vmware.com>,
Anne Holler <anne@vmware.com>,
Pratap Subrahmanyam <pratap@vmware.com>,
Christopher Li <chrisl@vmware.com>,
Joshua LeVasseur <jtl@ira.uka.de>, Chris Wright <chrisw@osdl.org>,
Rik Van Riel <riel@redhat.com>, Jyothy Reddy <jreddy@vmware.com>,
Jack Lo <jlo@vmware.com>, Kip Macy <kmacy@fsmware.com>,
Jan Beulich <jbeulich@novell.com>,
Ky Srinivasan <ksrinivasan@novell.com>,
Wim Coekaerts <wim.coekaerts@oracle.com>,
Leendert van Doorn <leendert@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC, PATCH 5/24] i386 Vmi code patching
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:33:45 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4421D0C9.6080603@vmware.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4421CCA8.4080702@vmware.com>
Zachary Amsden wrote:
> Chris Wright wrote:
>
>> Strongly agreed. The strict ABI requirements put forth here are not
>> in-line with Linux, IMO. I think source compatibility is the limit of
>> reasonable, and any ROM code be in-tree if something like this were to
>> be viable upstream.
>
> The idea of in-tree ROM code doesn't make sense. The entire point of
> this layer of code is that it is modular, and specific to the
> hypervisor, not the kernel. Once you lift the shroud and combine the
> two layers, you have lost all of the benefit that it was supposed to
> provide.
To elaborate a bit more, the "ROM" layer is "published" by the hypervisor. This
layer of abstraction will let you take a VMI-compiled kernel and run it
efficiently on any hypervisor that exports a VMI interface - even one that you
didn't know about (or didn't exist) when you compiled your kernel.
If the ROM part is compiled into the code, then you have to compile in support
for the specific hypervisor(s) you want to run on. It might be reasonable for
this code to be in a lodable kernel module, rather than a device ROM per se, but
you still want that kernel module to be provided by the hypervisor.
Suppose someone implements a ROM layer for UML, or QEMU, or even for Microsoft's
hypervisor. Having the ROM published by the hypervisor now lets you run your
kernel on that new hypervisor without recompiling. While this might not be much
of a benefit for an individual developer who downloads and compiles his own
kernel, this is a huge win for people who distribute binary kernels, or large IT
organizations that may have large heterogenous virtual machine farms to maintain.
Going forward, having the ROM layer published by the hypervisor gives the
hypervisor more flexibility than having the code statically compiled into the
kernel. Consider when hardware virtualization becomes more prevalent. Perhaps
there are places where today hypercalls make sense, but with hardware
virtualization, you'd rather have the hardware just take care of it. CPUID is
the only example I can come up with at the moment, but there are certainly
others. VMI lets the hypervisor decide that it doesn't actually need to replace
the CPUID instruction with a hypercall. The important factor here is that only
the hypervisor, not the kernel, knows about these performance tradeoffs. Or
maybe in the next version of Xen, it's possible to use sysenter rather than an
interrupt instruction to do hypercalls. If the hypervisor publishes this code,
even older kernels can transparently take advantage of faster ways of doing
certain things.
Dan.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-03-22 22:36 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 35+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2006-03-13 18:02 [RFC, PATCH 5/24] i386 Vmi code patching Zachary Amsden
2006-03-15 10:02 ` Chris Wright
2006-03-15 16:01 ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-15 22:05 ` Anthony Liguori
2006-03-15 23:00 ` Pavel Machek
2006-03-17 0:51 ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-17 10:08 ` Joshua LeVasseur
2006-03-17 21:11 ` Chris Wright
2006-03-18 0:49 ` Joshua LeVasseur
2006-03-16 19:10 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-03-16 19:45 ` Rik van Riel
2006-03-16 21:54 ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22 20:15 ` Andi Kleen
2006-03-22 21:40 ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 22:16 ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-22 22:33 ` Daniel Arai [this message]
2006-03-22 23:02 ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 22:51 ` Chris Wright
2006-03-22 23:36 ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-23 0:41 ` Chris Wright
2006-03-23 0:54 ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-23 1:06 ` Chris Wright
2006-03-23 4:04 ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-23 11:42 ` Joshua LeVasseur
2006-03-23 0:31 ` Anthony Liguori
2006-03-23 0:40 ` Chris Wright
2006-03-23 9:25 ` Keir Fraser
2006-03-23 18:50 ` [Xen-devel] " Zachary Amsden
2006-03-23 23:45 ` Eli Collins
2006-03-23 0:46 ` Zachary Amsden
2006-03-23 0:53 ` Anthony Liguori
2006-03-23 1:01 ` Zachary Amsden
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-03-22 23:41 Volkmar Uhlig
2006-03-28 0:52 Chuck Ebbert
2006-03-28 1:48 ` Zachary Amsden
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=4421D0C9.6080603@vmware.com \
--to=arai@vmware.com \
--cc=ak@suse.de \
--cc=akpm@osdl.org \
--cc=anne@vmware.com \
--cc=chrisl@vmware.com \
--cc=chrisw@osdl.org \
--cc=chrisw@sous-sol.org \
--cc=dhecht@vmware.com \
--cc=jbeulich@novell.com \
--cc=jlo@vmware.com \
--cc=jreddy@vmware.com \
--cc=jtl@ira.uka.de \
--cc=kmacy@fsmware.com \
--cc=ksrinivasan@novell.com \
--cc=leendert@watson.ibm.com \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=pratap@vmware.com \
--cc=riel@redhat.com \
--cc=torvalds@osdl.org \
--cc=virtualization@lists.osdl.org \
--cc=wim.coekaerts@oracle.com \
--cc=xen-devel@lists.xensource.com \
--cc=zach@vmware.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox