http://advogato.org/article/888.html

http://advogato.org/article/888.html

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

"Recently there has been a fuss over monolithic and micro kernels -
 specifically the direction of the Linux Kernel development. Free
 Software is about "freedom of choice", and we should be able to choose
 to compile the Linux Kernel as either a monolith or a microkernel. "

 ...

-- 
-- 
Mad Free Software Person, Visionary and Poet (http://lkcl.net)

Re: http://advogato.org/article/888.html

[David Woodhouse]

On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 00:02 +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> "Recently there has been a fuss over monolithic and micro kernels -
>  specifically the direction of the Linux Kernel development. Free
>  Software is about "freedom of choice", and we should be able to
> choose  to compile the Linux Kernel as either a monolith or a
> microkernel. " 

The GPL permits you the freedom to do this with the Linux kernel.

Like buggery, however, it falls into the category of things which are
perfectly acceptable between consenting adults, but best kept within the
privacy of your own home.

-- 
dwmw2

Re: http://advogato.org/article/888.html

[Stefan Smietanowski]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 426 bytes --]

Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> "Recently there has been a fuss over monolithic and micro kernels -
>  specifically the direction of the Linux Kernel development. Free
>  Software is about "freedom of choice", and we should be able to choose
>  to compile the Linux Kernel as either a monolith or a microkernel. "
> 
>  ...
> 

Feel free to rewrite linux as a micro kernel. Let us know how that goes
for you.

// Stefan

[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 253 bytes --]

http://advogato.org/article/888.html

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

> Feel free to rewrite linux as a micro kernel. Let us know how that goes
> for you.

> // Stefan

dear stefan,

fortunately for you and me both, it's already been done, and is
a major (functional) research project of the universities of karlsruhe
and southern australia:

	http://l4linux.org

as i have insufficient time or resources to dedicate to such a project
, i would be both unable to spend sufficient time replicating their work,
but not only that i would definitely not have enough time, resources or
energy to convince the key people that such work undertaken by was a
viable project.

my expertise appears to be, however, in ferretting out such archaic
and esoteric technology, and in advocating it.  okay.  the finding
i am good at.  the advocating i still need lessons in, because i
tend to ROYALLY piss people off.

*beam* :)

l.

-- 
-- 
Mad Free Software Person, Visionary and Poet (http://lkcl.net)

Re: http://advogato.org/article/888.html

[Matthew Frost]

(sorry; reply-all)
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> "Recently there has been a fuss over monolithic and micro kernels -
>  specifically the direction of the Linux Kernel development. Free
>  Software is about "freedom of choice", and we should be able to choose
>  to compile the Linux Kernel as either a monolith or a microkernel. "
> 
>  ...
> 

I love your tasteful choice of writing your diatribe on your site and
sending us a URL we can ignore.  Didn't you cause this fuss last time?
Does that actually qualify as recently?

http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/10/2/89

You want another flame war?

This sounds suspiciously like the kind of 'freedom' where you say you
want something, and expect someone else to do the heavy lifting for you
to get it.

Read up on the actual freedoms involved in Free Software.  They do not
cover "Freedom to Be Provided With The Kernel Binary Design of Your Choice".

You have the freedom to do with the kernel source what you wish, as long
as everyone after you keeps like freedom.  You want a linux-like
microkernel, go for it.  You have sufficient freedom, and sufficient
coding ability if we believe your CV, to make it happen.  Scratch your
own itch.

You don't have the freedom to dictate development practice to an
existing development community with a longstanding project.  This is not
an itch Linus wishes to scratch, and, as you acknowledge, it is not the
kind of change which will merge into mainline nicely.

Quit complaining and do the work, or help other people do the work,
since you know l4linux exists.  No more diatribes.

Re: http://advogato.org/article/888.html

[Matthew Frost]

(sorry; reply all)
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>> Feel free to rewrite linux as a micro kernel. Let us know how that goes
>> for you.
> 
>> // Stefan
> 
> dear stefan,
> 
> fortunately for you and me both, it's already been done, and is
> a major (functional) research project of the universities of karlsruhe
> and southern australia:
> 
> 	http://l4linux.org
> 
> as i have insufficient time or resources to dedicate to such a project
> , i would be both unable to spend sufficient time replicating their work,
> but not only that i would definitely not have enough time, resources or
> energy to convince the key people that such work undertaken by was a
> viable project.
> 

You seem to be SOL.  It's sad that you cannot make time or learn enough
to scratch your itch.  It is sad that you seem not to have even started
to try.  I weep.  When someone calls me on the phone and asks me to hire
them because their bills and debts are so large that they must get a
job, but can present me with no valid reasons to hire them, I'll think
of you from now on.  Oh, wait, did that sound bitter?

> my expertise appears to be, however, in ferretting out such archaic
> and esoteric technology, and in advocating it.  okay.  the finding
> i am good at.  the advocating i still need lessons in, because i
> tend to ROYALLY piss people off.
> 

It's also sad that you have no apparent teambuilding or advocacy skills.
  If the technology is archaic and esoteric, then why should anyone
care?  If you cannot help but piss people off, you need to change tactics.

<mindtrick> You want to go home and rethink your life. </mindtrick>

> *beam* :)

And, cheerfully pissing people off does in no way redeem you.

> 
> l.
> 

Re: http://advogato.org/article/888.html

[Theodore Tso]

     +----------+
     |  PLEASE  |
     |  DO NOT  |
     | FEED THE |
     |  TROLLS  |
     +----------+
         |  |    
         |  |    
       .\|.||/.. 

Re: http://advogato.org/article/888.html

[Valdis.Kletnieks]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 355 bytes --]

On Sun, 14 May 2006 00:56:13 BST, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton said:

> my expertise appears to be, however, in ferretting out such archaic
> and esoteric technology, and in advocating it.

One should wonder why such technology became archaic and esoteric,
even when the industry is full of known suboptimal solutions that have
never the less survived...

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 226 bytes --]

Re: http://advogato.org/article/888.html

[Matthew Frost]

Theodore Tso wrote:
>      +----------+
>      |  PLEASE  |
>      |  DO NOT  |
>      | FEED THE |
>      |  TROLLS  |
>      +----------+
>          |  |    
>          |  |    
>        .\|.||/.. 
> -

Luke is right, and so are you, Ted.  Rather than leave the above stand, 
and not post to the topic again, it has been requested that I apologize, 
and I agree with the necessity.

I would like to apologize for being a troll.

I did the inflammatory reaming in public; only fair I should do the 
conciliatory gesture in public.  My contributions to the discussion were 
a) noise, b) not a positive contribution to the topic, c) bad-spirited, 
and d) partially ad hominem.  Additionally, they constituted an 
unnecessary response to the topic, because the people involved in the 
respective subject areas are more than capable of responding sensibly 
and effectively and positively.  If, indeed, I believe someone to be 
trolling the list, I should ignore him and reduce the noise; I should 
not have sounded off at Luke in the manner in which I did.  That was 
uncalled for, and I apologize.

If I wish to positively contribute to the mailing list in the future, I 
shall try to do so where I have relevant, useful, well-formed questions, 
or relevant, useful, well-informed answers.  I will keep a civil tongue.

Matthew Frost

Re: http://advogato.org/article/888.html

[Kurt Wall]

On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 12:02:06AM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton took 16 lines to write:
> "Recently there has been a fuss over monolithic and micro kernels -
>  specifically the direction of the Linux Kernel development. Free
>  Software is about "freedom of choice", and we should be able to choose
>  to compile the Linux Kernel as either a monolith or a microkernel. "

Good luck with that.

Kurt
-- 
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
		-- Arthur C. Clarke