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From: "Antonino A. Daplas" <adaplas@gmail.com>
To: Ondrej Zajicek <santiago@mail.cz>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: OpenGL-based framebuffer concepts
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 07:21:11 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <447CD367.5050606@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20060530223513.GA32267@localhost.localdomain>

Ondrej Zajicek wrote:
> On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 10:40:20AM -0700, David Lang wrote:
>> as a long time linux user I tend to not to use the framebuffer, but 
>> instead use the standard vga text drivers (with X and sometimes dri/drm).
>>
>> in part this dates back to my early experiances with the framebuffer code 
>> when it was first introduced, but I still find that the framebuffer is not 
>> as nice to use as the simpler direct access for text modes. and when I 
>> start X up it doesn't need a framebuffer, so why suffer with the 
>> performance hit of the framebuffer?
> 
> Many users want to use text mode for console. But this request is not
> in contradiction with fbdev and fbcon. It just requires to do some work:
> 
> 1) To extend fbcon to be able to handle framebuffer in text mode.

And it can be done.  The matrox driver in 2.4 can do just that.  For 2.6,
we have tileblitting which is a drawing method that can handle pure text.
None of the drivers use this, but vgacon can be trivially written as a
framebuffer driver that uses tileblitting (instead of the default bitblit).

I believe that there was a vgafb driver before that does exactly what you
want.

> 2) To modify appropriate fbdev drivers to not do mode change at startup.
>    Fill fb_*_screeninfo with appropriate values for text mode instead.

Most drivers do not change the mode at startup.  Do not load fbcon, and
you will retain your text mode even if a framebuffer is loaded.  This is
not a hard and fast rule, so some drivers, especially those in embedded,
will explicitly change the mode at startup, that's a developer choice.

> 3) (optional) To modify appropriate fbdev drivers to be able to switch
>    back from graphics mode to text mode.

And a few drivers already do that, i810fb and rivafb.  Load rivafb or i810fb,
switch to graphics mode, unload, and you're back to text mode. The main problem
is that fbcon cannot be unloaded, but it's again trivial to rewrite fbcon so it
can be unloaded.  What prevents me for doing the rewrite is that only a few
drivers restore the hardware to text mode.

And this is one argument against making vgacon the primary console driver.
It does not have the capability to reset itself, it has to be done by
an external driver, whether by X or fbdev.

Tony

  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-05-30 23:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 321+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-05-16 21:41 replacing X Window System ! linux cbon
2006-05-16 21:51 ` Michal Piotrowski
2006-05-16 21:57 ` Måns Rullgård
2006-05-16 23:23   ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-05-16 22:19 ` alan
2006-05-16 22:42   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-16 23:05     ` alan
2006-05-17 11:47   ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 12:18     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 12:39       ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 13:19         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 14:10           ` Panagiotis Issaris
2006-05-17 14:19             ` Ondrej Zary
2006-05-17 14:23             ` Olivier Galibert
2006-05-17 14:46               ` Bob Copeland
2006-05-17 13:24         ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-05-17 13:46           ` Bob Copeland
2006-05-17 14:01             ` Michal Piotrowski
2006-05-17 13:39         ` Jesper Juhl
2006-05-17 14:53           ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 15:09             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 15:14               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 15:30                 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-05-17 16:29                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-17 15:53                 ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 16:09                   ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-05-17 16:12                   ` Stas Myasnikov
2006-05-17 15:16             ` Alan Cox
2006-05-17 15:49               ` linux cbon
2006-05-17 16:11                 ` Stas Myasnikov
2006-05-17 17:52             ` Gábor Lénárt
2006-05-17 17:17           ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2006-05-17 17:33             ` grundig
2006-05-18 15:42               ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-05-18 18:40                 ` grundig
2006-05-18 12:00         ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-18 17:28           ` linux cbon
2006-05-18 18:42             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-18 18:52             ` Thierry Vignaud
2006-05-18 19:31               ` linux cbon
2006-05-18 19:37                 ` David Lang
2006-05-18 20:12                 ` Gerhard Mack
2006-05-18 22:22                   ` linux cbon
2006-05-19  9:09                     ` Martin Mares
2006-05-18 20:12                 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-05-18 21:47                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-18 22:03                   ` linux cbon
2006-05-18 22:23                     ` Al Viro
2006-05-21 14:56                 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-05-19  9:26             ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-19 11:08               ` Panagiotis Issaris
2006-05-19 13:07                 ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-19 14:34                 ` David Greaves
2006-05-19 14:40                   ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-19 15:13                     ` linux cbon
2006-05-19 15:18                       ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-19 22:09                         ` linux cbon
2006-05-19 22:51                           ` Peter Gordon
2006-05-21 20:49                           ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-20  0:43                         ` Jeff Carr
2006-05-19 15:01                   ` Sander
2006-05-19 22:29                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-19 22:34                       ` David Lang
2006-05-19 22:20               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-19 22:40               ` linux cbon
2006-05-20  1:02                 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-05-20  6:31                   ` Willy Tarreau
2006-05-20  8:25                 ` jerome lacoste
2006-05-21  6:16                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-05-21 12:17                   ` linux cbon
2006-05-21  6:38                 ` Manu Abraham
2006-05-23  5:08                   ` OpenGL-based framebuffer concepts Kyle Moffett
2006-05-23  0:48                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-23 17:17                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-23 22:57                         ` Matthew Garrett
2006-05-23 23:38                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-23 23:24                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  4:21                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  0:42                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  4:57                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  1:04                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24 14:30                                   ` Chase Venters
2006-05-24 13:32                                 ` Paulo Marques
2006-05-24  6:39                             ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-24 13:17                             ` Stefan Seyfried
2006-05-24 22:08                             ` Matthew Garrett
2006-05-24 22:09                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24 22:41                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  1:50                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-24  7:30                             ` Matthew Garrett
2006-05-24  0:10                         ` Kyle Moffett
2006-05-23 23:27                           ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  0:24                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  7:03                           ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-24 13:55                             ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-24 14:49                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24 14:56                                 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-24 16:15                                   ` Matheus Izvekov
2006-05-24 16:26                                     ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-24 16:32                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-26  4:57                                         ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-26  2:09                                           ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-26  7:12                                         ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-24 16:42                                       ` Matheus Izvekov
2006-05-24 17:34                                       ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-26  7:05                                         ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-26  7:59                                           ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-26  6:58                                       ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-24 22:03                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-26  7:08                               ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-26  8:32                                 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-05-26 10:58                                   ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-26 11:06                                     ` Xavier Bestel
2006-05-24 15:41                             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-05-23 10:11                     ` Alan Cox
2006-05-23 10:28                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-23 14:10                         ` Kyle Moffett
2006-05-23 14:43                           ` Alan Cox
2006-05-23 15:41                             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-05-23 16:53                               ` Alan Cox
     [not found]                                 ` <9b5164430605231015s40ebcd38had1c3029da8afc7@mail.gmail.com>
2006-05-23 17:21                                   ` Xiong Jiang
2006-05-24 12:47                                     ` Alan Cox
2006-05-23 23:31                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-23 15:52                             ` Rene Rebe
2006-05-23 23:41                         ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  4:48                         ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24  5:24                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-23 23:38                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  4:08                         ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-24  0:17                           ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  5:14                             ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-24  1:30                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24  5:48                                 ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-24  2:11                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-26 17:53                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-27 18:03                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-24 15:27                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-24 23:18                                 ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-24 23:56                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-25  0:31                                     ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-25  0:55                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25  2:37                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-25  8:44                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25 14:04                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-25 15:07                                             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25 15:37                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-25 23:04                                                 ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-25 23:17                                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25 23:31                                                     ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-25 23:19                                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-25 23:48                                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-25 15:57                                               ` Paulo Marques
2006-05-25 18:01                                                 ` Alan Cox
2006-05-26 11:26                               ` Olivier Galibert
2006-05-25 16:13                           ` Greg KH
2006-05-26 17:39                           ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-27 18:01                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-28  0:03                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-27 22:13                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-28  2:34                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-27 22:45                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-28  3:27                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-28  1:12                                         ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-28 23:13                                           ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-28 23:16                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29  3:43                                               ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-29  4:05                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-29  0:25                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29  4:58                                                   ` Neil Brown
2006-05-29  2:07                                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29  5:14                                                     ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-29  2:09                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29  5:28                                                       ` Neil Brown
2006-05-29  7:14                                                   ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-31 21:42                                               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-31 21:15                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01  9:43                                                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-06-01 11:51                                                     ` Marko M
2006-06-01 15:54                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01 21:39                                                     ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-29  0:59                                             ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-29  1:29                                               ` Daniel Stone
2006-05-29  2:28                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-30 17:40                                               ` David Lang
2006-05-30 21:53                                                 ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-30 21:55                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-30 22:13                                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  8:36                                                   ` Ondrej Zajicek
2006-06-02  8:58                                                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-02 18:49                                                       ` David Lang
2006-06-02 22:01                                                         ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-02 19:57                                                           ` David Lang
2006-06-02 23:25                                                             ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-03  6:32                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-03  7:05                                                                 ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-03 16:35                                                                   ` Kyle Moffett
2006-06-03 20:55                                                                     ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-02 12:17                                                     ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-30 22:35                                                 ` Ondrej Zajicek
2006-05-30 22:55                                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  6:48                                                     ` Martin Mares
2006-05-31  7:13                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  3:25                                                         ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-31  7:19                                                         ` Martin Mares
2006-05-31 12:09                                                       ` Helge Hafting
2006-05-31 13:34                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-31 13:56                                                         ` Martin Mares
2006-05-30 23:21                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas [this message]
2006-05-31  8:26                                                     ` Ondrej Zajicek
2006-05-31 10:25                                                       ` Marko M
2006-05-31 11:59                                                       ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31 19:24                                                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-05-31 19:57                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31 20:32                                                         ` Matthew Garrett
2006-05-31 21:23                                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01  2:21                                                         ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-29 10:23                                             ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-29 10:36                                               ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-29 12:48                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-29 21:23                                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-05-29 21:45                                                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-30 17:44                                                       ` David Lang
2006-05-30 20:18                                                         ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-29 22:10                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-29 22:58                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29 22:57                                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-29 23:23                                                   ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-29 23:48                                                     ` Marko M
2006-05-30  1:39                                                       ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-05-30  2:09                                                         ` Randy.Dunlap
     [not found]                                                           ` <441e43c90605291936t19caa0eat4bd4b699e0ac9202@mail.gmail.com>
2006-05-30  2:37                                                             ` Fwd: " Ian Kester-Haney
2006-05-30 10:49                                                         ` Alexey Dobriyan
2006-05-30 20:24                                                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-30 20:56                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-30 21:15                                                         ` Ian Kester-Haney
2006-05-30 23:01                                                         ` Dave Airlie
2006-05-30 23:27                                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-30 23:14                                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-31  4:02                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  0:11                                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-31  4:16                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  0:26                                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-05-31  4:39                                                                   ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  0:45                                                                     ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01  0:50                                                                     ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01  1:37                                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01  1:56                                                                         ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01  2:19                                                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31 22:36                                                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01  2:49                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01  9:28                                                                     ` Ondrej Zajicek
2006-06-01 16:59                                                                       ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 14:59                                                                         ` David Lang
2006-06-01 16:03                                                                           ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01 20:35                                                                             ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 16:47                                                                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01 21:21                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 22:22                                                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-01 21:05                                                                               ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01 21:23                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 21:31                                                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01 21:48                                                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 22:21                                                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-01 23:14                                                                                       ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01 23:00                                                                                 ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-01 23:39                                                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-01 23:14                                                                               ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-01 23:38                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 23:47                                                                                   ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-02  0:45                                                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  9:05                                                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-02  9:03                                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-02  1:15                                                                         ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-02  2:18                                                                           ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 22:34                                                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  2:58                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-01 23:01                                                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  3:16                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  0:34                                                                                 ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  2:45                                                                             ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-02  3:27                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  4:28                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-02  0:35                                                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  9:00                                                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-03  3:21                                                                             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-06-03  1:25                                                                               ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-03  5:55                                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-03  2:09                                                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-03  6:31                                                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-03  2:38                                                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-03  4:03                                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-06-08  7:02                                                                             ` Helge Hafting
2006-06-08  7:40                                                                               ` Daniel Hazelton
2006-06-08  8:30                                                                                 ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-06-09  2:44                                                                                   ` Daniel Hazelton
2006-06-02  4:34                                                                           ` Ville Syrjälä
2006-06-02  0:36                                                                             ` D. Hazelton
2006-06-02  6:19                                                                             ` Dave Airlie
2006-06-02 17:31                                                                               ` Ville Syrjälä
2006-06-02  1:42                                                                         ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31  8:08                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-30 23:38                                                             ` Daniel Stone
2006-05-30 23:38                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-30 23:55                                                               ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-30 23:38                                                             ` Pavel Machek
2006-05-31  0:00                                                               ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31  0:47                                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-31  1:23                                                                   ` Antonino A. Daplas
2006-05-31  2:34                                                                     ` Jon Smirl
2006-05-18 20:27           ` replacing X Window System ! D. Hazelton
2006-05-17 13:20     ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-05-17 18:34   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-16 23:10 ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2006-05-17  8:46   ` Ondrej Zary
2006-05-17  9:59     ` Carlos Silva
2006-05-17 13:27     ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-05-17 17:37       ` David Schwartz
2006-05-17 17:46         ` alan
2006-05-17 17:56           ` Gábor Lénárt
2006-05-17 17:12     ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2006-05-19 10:27     ` [OT] " Jan Knutar

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