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From: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>
To: cmm@us.ibm.com, Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	ext2-devel <ext2-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC 0/13] extents and 48bit ext3
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 22:49:08 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4488E1A4.20305@garzik.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1149816055.4066.60.camel@dyn9047017069.beaverton.ibm.com>

Mingming Cao wrote:
> Current ext3 filesystem is limited to 8TB(4k block size), this is
> practically not enough for the increasing need of bigger storage as
> disks in a few years (or even now).
> 
> To address this need, there are co-effort from RedHat, ClusterFS, IBM
> and BULL to move ext3 from 32 bit filesystem to 48 bit filesystem,
> expanding ext3 filesystem limit from 8TB today to 1024 PB. The 48 bit
> ext3 is build on top of extent map changes for ext3, originally from
> Alex Tomas. In short, the new ext3 on-disk extents format is:

One of my common complaints about massive ext3 updates such as this is 
the ever-growing "which ext3 filesystem am I mounting?" problem.

I really think extents and 48bit-ness should imply
	cp -a fs/ext3 fs/ext4
and go from there.

IMHO the ext3 back-compat situation is already really hairy, with all 
the features added since the original ext3 release.

The alternative is continual bloating of ext3, and on filesystems, 
inodes which are progressively upgraded -- meaning any use of a prior 
kernel implies that you can only read a subset of your [meta]data, if 
the back-compat code doesn't block the mount entirely.

People (including me) still switch back and forth between ext2 and ext3 
mounts of the same filesystem on occasion.  I think creating an "ext4" 
would allow for greater developer flexibility in implementing new 
features and ditching old ones -- while also emphasizing to the user 
that switching back and forth between ext4 and ext[23] is a bad idea.

Overall, after applying extent (and 48bit) patches, I think it is wrong 
to keep calling it ext3.  That will break some existing user 
assumptions, and continue to restrict developers' freedom to implement 
nifty new features.

	Jeff




  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-06-09  2:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 301+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-06-09  1:20 [RFC 0/13] extents and 48bit ext3 Mingming Cao
2006-06-09  2:40 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-06-09  8:20   ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 18:35     ` [Ext2-devel] " Stephen C. Tweedie
2006-06-09 19:20       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:28         ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 19:32           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:41             ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 15:23   ` Mingming Cao
2006-06-09  2:49 ` Jeff Garzik [this message]
2006-06-09  8:35   ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 15:08     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 15:25       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 15:40         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 15:47           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 15:55             ` [Ext2-devel] " Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 15:56               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:07                 ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:09                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:04                   ` Matthew Frost
2006-06-09 18:10                     ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 18:14                     ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 18:51                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:39                         ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-06-09 19:45                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:38                             ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-06-10 10:03                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-06-09 19:49                         ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 20:04                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:57                             ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2006-06-09 21:49                               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 21:55                                 ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2006-06-09 23:44                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  0:16                                     ` Bernd Eckenfels
2006-06-10  0:45                                     ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10  0:47                                     ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10  1:09                                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  1:30                                         ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10  1:43                                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  2:03                                             ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10  2:11                                               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  2:54                                                 ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10  3:11                                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10 12:15                                                     ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10 14:31                                                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  2:58                                               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  2:26                                             ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10  2:31                                               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  4:22                                                 ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 22:37                             ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-11 16:02                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-06-11 16:30                           ` Nikita Danilov
2006-06-11 16:55                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-06-12  6:35                           ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-12 22:06                         ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-14 14:31                           ` Barry K. Nathan
2006-06-14 21:34                             ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15  0:28                               ` Barry K. Nathan
2006-06-15  4:55                                 ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-15  7:43                                   ` Barry K. Nathan
2006-06-15  9:15                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15  9:40                                   ` Barry K. Nathan
2006-06-15  9:50                                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-09 20:52                 ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2006-06-09 21:47                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  0:41                     ` James Morris
2006-06-09 16:01             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 20:38             ` [Ext2-devel] " Stephen C. Tweedie
2006-06-09 15:57           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:10           ` [Ext2-devel] " Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:10             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:24               ` Erik Mouw
2006-06-09 16:28                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:24               ` Chase Venters
2006-06-09 16:25               ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:28                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:50                   ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:53                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 17:01                       ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 17:10                         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:25             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 16:48               ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:54                 ` KELEMEN Peter
2006-06-09 16:55                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 17:12                   ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 17:12                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:57                   ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 20:09                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:14                       ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 20:28                         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-19  7:48                         ` Helge Hafting
2006-06-09 20:38                     ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 20:50                       ` Dave Jones
2006-06-09 21:09                         ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 21:51                           ` Mike Snitzer
2006-06-09 21:32                         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 22:56                           ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 23:06                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 23:09                             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 23:37                               ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 23:54                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 21:03                       ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 21:24                         ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 21:36                           ` Chase Venters
2006-06-09 21:51                           ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 22:07                             ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 22:31                               ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 22:47                                 ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 23:54                                   ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 23:48                         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-12  8:58                     ` Jes Sorensen
2006-06-10  0:07                   ` Olivier Galibert
2006-06-10  0:13                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:54               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 17:04                 ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 17:30                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 17:41                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-06-09 17:50                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:00                         ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 18:04                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 18:17                       ` Michael Poole
2006-06-09 17:44                 ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 17:58                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:10                 ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 18:22                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 18:30                     ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 18:38                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 18:50                         ` Chase Venters
2006-06-09 19:00                           ` Chase Venters
2006-06-10 13:33                             ` Adrian Bunk
2006-06-09 19:01                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10 19:27                             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-06-10 19:44                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-10 20:02                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-10 21:26                                   ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10 21:31                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-10 22:12                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10 22:21                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-11  4:39                                       ` Stable/devel policy - was " Neil Brown
2006-06-11  5:19                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-11  7:32                                           ` Ingo Molnar
2006-06-13  0:28                                         ` Mingming Cao
2006-06-09 19:21                           ` Alan Cox
2006-06-09 19:13                             ` Chase Venters
2006-06-09 19:24                             ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 19:25                               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:35                                 ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 19:35                                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:44                                   ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 20:49                                     ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 21:11                                       ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 21:20                                         ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 21:29                                           ` Joel Becker
2006-06-09 21:33                                             ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 21:43                                             ` Joel Becker
2006-06-11 20:14                                   ` grundig
2006-06-14 16:45                                     ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 19:22                         ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 19:22                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:16                         ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 20:31                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 20:31                           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:43                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:50                       ` Diego Calleja
2006-06-09 19:08                         ` Diego Calleja
2006-06-09 18:40                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:59                     ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-09 19:16                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:27                         ` Chase Venters
2006-06-09 20:44                       ` Alan Cox
2006-06-11 15:52                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-06-09 18:41                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 17:12               ` Jeff Anderson-Lee
2006-06-09 18:02               ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-10 19:10         ` Kyle Moffett
2006-06-10 19:27           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 15:28       ` [Ext2-devel] " Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 15:31         ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-06-10  3:26           ` Continuation Inodes Explained! (was Re: [Ext2-devel] [RFC 0/13] extents and 48bit ext3) Valerie Henson
2006-06-10  5:25             ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10  5:41               ` Valerie Henson
2006-06-10  6:22                 ` [Ext2-devel] Continuation Inodes Explained! (was " Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10 14:22             ` Continuation Inodes Explained! (was Re: [Ext2-devel] " Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 15:44         ` [Ext2-devel] [RFC 0/13] extents and 48bit ext3 Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 15:53           ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 15:52             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:02               ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:04                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:29           ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 15:53         ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-06-09 16:03           ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:09           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 17:58             ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-06-09 18:25               ` Chase Venters
2006-06-10 13:46               ` Adrian Bunk
2006-06-10 14:42                 ` Ingo Molnar
2006-06-10 15:03                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-11  6:00                     ` Ingo Molnar
2006-06-10 16:00                   ` Adrian Bunk
2006-06-10 16:05                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-06-10 23:05                   ` Mike Galbraith
2006-06-13 13:34               ` Helge Hafting
2006-06-09 20:32       ` Stephen C. Tweedie
2006-06-09 20:46         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-09 20:56           ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-20  6:15           ` Qi Yong
2006-06-20  8:26             ` Laurent Vivier
2006-06-20  8:30               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-20  9:21                 ` Laurent Vivier
2006-06-20  9:48                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-20 10:40                     ` Laurent Vivier
2006-06-09 17:14   ` Alan Cox
2006-06-09  9:13 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-06-09 10:07   ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-09 15:40     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 15:42       ` Matthew Wilcox
2006-06-09 15:51         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 17:29         ` Alan Cox
2006-06-09 16:56       ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-09 17:07         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 17:35           ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-09 17:48             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 17:59               ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 18:27                 ` [Ext2-devel] " Mike Snitzer
2006-06-09 18:54                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:22                     ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 19:23                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 22:49                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-06-09 23:34                         ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10 13:49                   ` Adrian Bunk
2006-06-10 13:51                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-06-10 14:54                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10 18:01                         ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 21:42             ` Sonny Rao
2006-06-09 22:15               ` Andrew Morton
2006-06-09 23:11                 ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 23:15                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-10  3:37                   ` [Ext2-devel] " Valerie Henson
2006-06-10  3:49                 ` Nathan Scott
2006-06-09 18:23       ` Michael Poole
2006-06-09 18:55         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 19:42           ` [Ext2-devel] " Gerrit Huizenga
2006-06-09 20:00             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:08               ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 20:10                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 20:35               ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-09 21:41                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 21:43                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2006-06-09 21:56                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 21:58                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2006-06-09 22:00                         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 21:45                   ` Michael Poole
2006-06-09 21:53                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 22:04                       ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10  0:49         ` Sven-Haegar Koch
2006-06-10  1:06           ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10 14:07             ` Olivier Galibert
2006-06-10 19:52               ` Theodore Tso
2006-06-10  5:29           ` Bernd Eckenfels
2006-06-09 10:49   ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 11:26   ` [Ext2-devel] " Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 14:23     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 14:33       ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 14:34       ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 14:35         ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 14:57           ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 15:17             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:21               ` Mike Snitzer
2006-06-09 16:27                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:48                   ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:51                     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 16:33                 ` Alex Tomas
2006-06-09 16:37                   ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-09 22:52                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-06-09 23:21                     ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10  1:21                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-06-10  2:09                         ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-10  2:45                           ` Nicholas Miell
2006-06-10  4:29                             ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 16:56               ` Andreas Dilger
2006-06-09 17:32                 ` Greg KH
2006-06-09 18:48                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-06-30  0:16 ` [RFC][Update 0/16]extents and 48bit ext3/4 patches Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:16 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 1/16]core extent map support Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:17 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 2/16]sector_t type format string Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:17 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 3/16]convert ext3_fsblk_t to sector_t to support >32 bit block in kernel Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:17 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 4/16]support 48 bit blk number in extents Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:17 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 5/16]block type convert " Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:17 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 6/16]handing unitialized extents Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:17 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 7/16]Core 64 bit JBD changes Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:18 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 8/16]Avoid potential block overflow when writing journal metadata tags Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:18 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 9/16]Fix reading of 32-bit tag descriptors Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:18 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 10/16]Cleanup journal_tag_bytes() Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:18 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 11/16]JBD layer in-kernel block variables type fixes Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:18 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 12/16]Fix undefined ">> 32" in revoke code Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  3:15   ` H. Peter Anvin
2006-06-30  0:18 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 13/16] 48 bit on-disk i_file_acl support Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:19 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 14/16] 48bit super block (metadata) changes Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:19 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 15/16] compile warning fix and change 64bit to INCOMPAT feature Mingming Cao
2006-06-30  0:19 ` [RFC][Update][Patch 16/16]Update ext3 superblock definition Mingming Cao
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-06-11  8:22 [RFC 0/13] extents and 48bit ext3 linux

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