A nice CPU resource controller

A nice CPU resource controller

[Martin Ohlin]

To those interested

I have been working on a CPU resource controller using the nice value as 
a control signal. At the moment, the control is done on a 
per-task-level, but I have plans to extend it to groups of tasks. The 
control is based on a PI-controller (Proportional, Integral), using an 
execution time measurement as input to the controller, and the output 
from the controller as nice value.

Using the controller, it is possible to make CPU reservations that in a 
soft way guarante that tasks achieve as much resources as the 
corresponding reference indicates.

For those interested, the concept is described in more detail along with 
experiments in the first part of my thesis available at:
http://www.control.lth.se/database/publications/article.pike?artkey=ohlin06lic

p.s.
I changed my last name during this summer, from Andersson to Ohlin, when 
I got married. Therefore you may find references to both names in the 
thesis and elsewhere.
d.s.

/Martin

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Balbir Singh]

On 8/30/06, Martin Ohlin <martin.ohlin@control.lth.se> wrote:
> To those interested
>
> I have been working on a CPU resource controller using the nice value as
> a control signal. At the moment, the control is done on a
> per-task-level, but I have plans to extend it to groups of tasks. The
> control is based on a PI-controller (Proportional, Integral), using an
> execution time measurement as input to the controller, and the output
> from the controller as nice value.
>

The CKRM e-series is a PID based CPU Controller. It did a good job of
controlling and smoothing out the load (and variations) and even
worked with groups. But it achieved all this through some amount of
complexity. How do you plan to extend the idea to groups? Do you have
any code that we can look at?

I do not understand controlling the nice value? Most cpu control the
bandwidth/time - are there any advantages to controlling the nice
value? How does this interplay with dynamic priorities that the
scheduler currently maintains?

> Using the controller, it is possible to make CPU reservations that in a
> soft way guarante that tasks achieve as much resources as the
> corresponding reference indicates.
>
> For those interested, the concept is described in more detail along with
> experiments in the first part of my thesis available at:
> http://www.control.lth.se/database/publications/article.pike?artkey=ohlin06lic

Read one more paper - time

Balbir

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Martin Ohlin]

Balbir Singh wrote:

> The CKRM e-series is a PID based CPU Controller. It did a good job of
> controlling and smoothing out the load (and variations) and even
> worked with groups. But it achieved all this through some amount of
> complexity. How do you plan to extend the idea to groups? Do you have
> any code that we can look at?

I would say that my controller so far is very simple, probably too 
simple. I have no detailed plan yet about how to incorporate groups of 
tasks, only small ideas that I would like to think a little more on 
before I say something embarrasing. The important code-parts are in the 
thesis, and I must say that the code is in no way finished, but most of 
it can be found at:
http://www.control.lth.se/user/martin.ohlin/linux/sampler.c

> I do not understand controlling the nice value? Most cpu control the
> bandwidth/time - are there any advantages to controlling the nice
> value? How does this interplay with dynamic priorities that the
> scheduler currently maintains?

There is a relationship between the nice value and the achieved 
bandwidth/time. Therefore it was possible that the nice value could be 
used to control the bandwidth/time. I wanted to know if it was possible 
to use it, and it was. As to the dynamic priorities, I do not change 
them, but as I do change the nice value and the dynamic priorities are 
relative to that, then you may say that I do change them... Anyway, it 
seems to work.

/Martin

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Balbir Singh]

Martin Ohlin wrote:

> http://www.control.lth.se/user/martin.ohlin/linux/sampler.c
> 

Thanks for the link.

-- 

	Balbir Singh,
	Linux Technology Center,
	IBM Software Labs

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Peter Williams]

Balbir Singh wrote:
> On 8/30/06, Martin Ohlin <martin.ohlin@control.lth.se> wrote:
>> To those interested
>>
>> I have been working on a CPU resource controller using the nice value as
>> a control signal. At the moment, the control is done on a
>> per-task-level, but I have plans to extend it to groups of tasks. The
>> control is based on a PI-controller (Proportional, Integral), using an
>> execution time measurement as input to the controller, and the output
>> from the controller as nice value.
>>
> 
> The CKRM e-series is a PID based CPU Controller. It did a good job of
> controlling and smoothing out the load (and variations) and even
> worked with groups. But it achieved all this through some amount of
> complexity. How do you plan to extend the idea to groups? Do you have
> any code that we can look at?
> 
> I do not understand controlling the nice value? Most cpu control the
> bandwidth/time - are there any advantages to controlling the nice
> value?

Trying to control CPU allocations purely using time allocations will 
only work well for CPU bound processes.  Furthermore, the faster CPUs 
become the more this will be the case.

> How does this interplay with dynamic priorities that the
> scheduler currently maintains?

But your implication here is valid.  It is better to fiddle with the 
dynamic priorities than with nice as this leaves nice for its primary 
purpose of enabling the sysadmin to effect the allocation of CPU 
resources based on external considerations.  Having said that I would 
also opine that the basic mechanism this author uses to fiddle the nice 
values could be applied to the dynamic priorities instead with the key 
difference being that nice can be fiddled from outside the scheduler but 
you really need to be inside the scheduler to fiddle with dynamic 
priorities.

> 
>> Using the controller, it is possible to make CPU reservations that in a
>> soft way guarante that tasks achieve as much resources as the
>> corresponding reference indicates.
>>
>> For those interested, the concept is described in more detail along with
>> experiments in the first part of my thesis available at:
>> http://www.control.lth.se/database/publications/article.pike?artkey=ohlin06lic 
>>
> 
> Read one more paper - time
> 
> Balbir
> -
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-- 
Peter Williams                                   pwil3058@bigpond.net.au

"Learning, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious."
  -- Ambrose Bierce

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Balbir Singh]

Peter Williams wrote:

>> I do not understand controlling the nice value? Most cpu control the
>> bandwidth/time - are there any advantages to controlling the nice
>> value?
> 
> Trying to control CPU allocations purely using time allocations will 
> only work well for CPU bound processes.  Furthermore, the faster CPUs 
> become the more this will be the case.

The resource we are controlling is CPU bandwidth, what other parameters can we
use to control it?. Nice values indirectly control the time a task gets, but
also affects its priority. Even if a task is not CPU bound, we are only
interested in its CPU bandwidth utilization in the CPU resource controller.

> 
>> How does this interplay with dynamic priorities that the
>> scheduler currently maintains?
> 
> But your implication here is valid.  It is better to fiddle with the 
> dynamic priorities than with nice as this leaves nice for its primary 
> purpose of enabling the sysadmin to effect the allocation of CPU 
> resources based on external considerations.  Having said that I would 
> also opine that the basic mechanism this author uses to fiddle the nice 
> values could be applied to the dynamic priorities instead with the key 
> difference being that nice can be fiddled from outside the scheduler but 
> you really need to be inside the scheduler to fiddle with dynamic 
> priorities.
> 

The problem with controlling nice values that I see is that nice values do not
necessarily linearly map CPU time. Changing the nice value also changes the
priority, which impacts the order in which tasks are run.

It's my belief that time and priorities are orthogonal. Nice does a good job
of trying to mix the two,  but in the case of resource management it might not
be such a good idea.




-- 

	Balbir Singh,
	Linux Technology Center,
	IBM Software Labs

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Peter Williams]

Balbir Singh wrote:
> Peter Williams wrote:
> 
>>> I do not understand controlling the nice value? Most cpu control the
>>> bandwidth/time - are there any advantages to controlling the nice
>>> value?
>>
>> Trying to control CPU allocations purely using time allocations will 
>> only work well for CPU bound processes.  Furthermore, the faster CPUs 
>> become the more this will be the case.
> 
> The resource we are controlling is CPU bandwidth,

Unfortunately, most tasks' bursts of CPU are much shorter than the sizes 
of the time slices you're allocating (and the faster CPUs get the more 
this will be the case) so they don't have much effect.

> what other parameters 
> can we
> use to control it?

Dynamic priority.

>. Nice values indirectly control the time a task gets, 
> but
> also affects its priority. Even if a task is not CPU bound, we are only
> interested in its CPU bandwidth utilization in the CPU resource controller.
> 
>>
>>> How does this interplay with dynamic priorities that the
>>> scheduler currently maintains?
>>
>> But your implication here is valid.  It is better to fiddle with the 
>> dynamic priorities than with nice as this leaves nice for its primary 
>> purpose of enabling the sysadmin to effect the allocation of CPU 
>> resources based on external considerations.  Having said that I would 
>> also opine that the basic mechanism this author uses to fiddle the 
>> nice values could be applied to the dynamic priorities instead with 
>> the key difference being that nice can be fiddled from outside the 
>> scheduler but you really need to be inside the scheduler to fiddle 
>> with dynamic priorities.
>>
> 
> The problem with controlling nice values that I see is that nice values 
> do not
> necessarily linearly map CPU time. Changing the nice value also changes the
> priority, which impacts the order in which tasks are run.
> 
> It's my belief that time and priorities are orthogonal. Nice does a good 
> job
> of trying to mix the two,  but in the case of resource management it 
> might not
> be such a good idea.

Think "dynamic priorities".

Peter
-- 
Peter Williams                                   pwil3058@bigpond.net.au

"Learning, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious."
  -- Ambrose Bierce

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Mike Galbraith]

On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 11:47 +0530, Balbir Singh wrote:

> It's my belief that time and priorities are orthogonal. Nice does a good job
> of trying to mix the two,  but in the case of resource management it might not
> be such a good idea.

I don't think they're orthogonal.  If two tasks of identical priority
are contending for cpu, and you choose the one with more time on it's
group ticket, you have effectively modified priorities.

Regardless, nice sounded attractive to me at first, but it's flat wrong
to use a per task variable to store group scope information, so I have
to agree that nice isn't a good choice for group resource management.

	-Mike

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Mike Galbraith]

On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 11:07 +1000, Peter Williams wrote:

> But your implication here is valid.  It is better to fiddle with the 
> dynamic priorities than with nice as this leaves nice for its primary 
> purpose of enabling the sysadmin to effect the allocation of CPU 
> resources based on external considerations.

I don't understand.  It _is_ the administrator fiddling with nice based
on external considerations.  It just steadies the administrator's hand.

	-Mike

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Peter Williams]

Mike Galbraith wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 11:07 +1000, Peter Williams wrote:
> 
>> But your implication here is valid.  It is better to fiddle with the 
>> dynamic priorities than with nice as this leaves nice for its primary 
>> purpose of enabling the sysadmin to effect the allocation of CPU 
>> resources based on external considerations.
> 
> I don't understand.  It _is_ the administrator fiddling with nice based
> on external considerations.  It just steadies the administrator's hand.

Not exactly.  If "nice" is being (automatically) fiddled to meet some 
measurable requirement such as the amount of CPU tasks get it is no 
longer available as a means for the indication of the relative 
importance of the tasks.  I.e. it can't be both the means for saying 
which tasks should be allocated the most CPU and the means by which that 
allocation is controlled.

Peter
-- 
Peter Williams                                   pwil3058@bigpond.net.au

"Learning, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious."
  -- Ambrose Bierce

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Mike Galbraith]

On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 15:21 +1000, Peter Williams wrote:
> Mike Galbraith wrote:
> > On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 11:07 +1000, Peter Williams wrote:
> > 
> >> But your implication here is valid.  It is better to fiddle with the 
> >> dynamic priorities than with nice as this leaves nice for its primary 
> >> purpose of enabling the sysadmin to effect the allocation of CPU 
> >> resources based on external considerations.
> > 
> > I don't understand.  It _is_ the administrator fiddling with nice based
> > on external considerations.  It just steadies the administrator's hand.
> 
> Not exactly.  If "nice" is being (automatically) fiddled to meet some 
> measurable requirement such as the amount of CPU tasks get it is no 
> longer available as a means for the indication of the relative 
> importance of the tasks.

Yeah, I thought about that meanwhile, see other reply.

	-Mike

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Mike Galbraith]

On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 06:53 +0000, Mike Galbraith wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 11:07 +1000, Peter Williams wrote:
> 
> > But your implication here is valid.  It is better to fiddle with the 
> > dynamic priorities than with nice as this leaves nice for its primary 
> > purpose of enabling the sysadmin to effect the allocation of CPU 
> > resources based on external considerations.
> 
> I don't understand.  It _is_ the administrator fiddling with nice based
> on external considerations.  It just steadies the administrator's hand.

When extended to groups, I see your point.  The admin would lose his
ability to apportion bandwidth _within_ the group because he's already
turned his only knob.  That is going to be just as much of a problem for
other methods though, and is just a question of how much complexity you
want to pay to achieve fine grained control.

	-Mike

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Martin Ohlin]

Mike Galbraith wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 06:53 +0000, Mike Galbraith wrote:
>> On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 11:07 +1000, Peter Williams wrote:
>>
>>> But your implication here is valid.  It is better to fiddle with the 
>>> dynamic priorities than with nice as this leaves nice for its primary 
>>> purpose of enabling the sysadmin to effect the allocation of CPU 
>>> resources based on external considerations.
>> I don't understand.  It _is_ the administrator fiddling with nice based
>> on external considerations.  It just steadies the administrator's hand.
> 
> When extended to groups, I see your point.  The admin would lose his
> ability to apportion bandwidth _within_ the group because he's already
> turned his only knob.  That is going to be just as much of a problem for
> other methods though, and is just a question of how much complexity you
> want to pay to achieve fine grained control.

I do not see the problem. Let's say I create a group of three tasks and 
give it 50% of the CPU bandwidth (perhaps by using the same nice value 
for all the tasks in this group). If I then want to apportion the 
bandwidth within the group as you say, then the same thing can be done 
by treating them as individual tasks.

Maybe I am wrong, but as I see it, if one wants to control on a group 
level, then the individual shares within the group are not that 
important. If the individual share is important, then it should be 
controlled on a per-task level. Please tell me if I am wrong.

/Martin

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Mike Galbraith]

On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 12:35 +0200, Martin Ohlin wrote:
> Mike Galbraith wrote:
> > On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 06:53 +0000, Mike Galbraith wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 11:07 +1000, Peter Williams wrote:
> >>
> >>> But your implication here is valid.  It is better to fiddle with the 
> >>> dynamic priorities than with nice as this leaves nice for its primary 
> >>> purpose of enabling the sysadmin to effect the allocation of CPU 
> >>> resources based on external considerations.
> >> I don't understand.  It _is_ the administrator fiddling with nice based
> >> on external considerations.  It just steadies the administrator's hand.
> > 
> > When extended to groups, I see your point.  The admin would lose his
> > ability to apportion bandwidth _within_ the group because he's already
> > turned his only knob.  That is going to be just as much of a problem for
> > other methods though, and is just a question of how much complexity you
> > want to pay to achieve fine grained control.
> 
> I do not see the problem. Let's say I create a group of three tasks and 
> give it 50% of the CPU bandwidth (perhaps by using the same nice value 
> for all the tasks in this group). If I then want to apportion the 
> bandwidth within the group as you say, then the same thing can be done 
> by treating them as individual tasks.

Multiplex nice?  (oh my, dig foxhole)

> Maybe I am wrong, but as I see it, if one wants to control on a group 
> level, then the individual shares within the group are not that 
> important. If the individual share is important, then it should be 
> controlled on a per-task level. Please tell me if I am wrong.

That's probably right 99% of the time.

	-Mike

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Chris Friesen]

Martin Ohlin wrote:

> Maybe I am wrong, but as I see it, if one wants to control on a group 
> level, then the individual shares within the group are not that 
> important. If the individual share is important, then it should be 
> controlled on a per-task level. Please tell me if I am wrong.

The individual share within the group may not be important, but the 
relative priority might be.


We have instances were we would like to express something like:

--these tasks are all grouped together as "maintenance" tasks, and 
should be guaranteed 3% of the system together
	--within the maintenance tasks, my network heartbeat application is the 
most latency sensitive, so I want it to be higher-priority than the 
other maintenance tasks


 From my point of view, task group cpu allocation and relative task 
priority should be orthogonal.

First you pick a task group (based on cpu share, priority, etc.) then 
within the group you pick the task with highest priority.

This was something that CKRM did right (IMHO).

Chris

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Mike Galbraith]

On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 10:01 -0600, Chris Friesen wrote:
> Martin Ohlin wrote:
> 
> > Maybe I am wrong, but as I see it, if one wants to control on a group 
> > level, then the individual shares within the group are not that 
> > important. If the individual share is important, then it should be 
> > controlled on a per-task level. Please tell me if I am wrong.
> 
> The individual share within the group may not be important, but the 
> relative priority might be.
> 
> 
> We have instances were we would like to express something like:
> 
> --these tasks are all grouped together as "maintenance" tasks, and 
> should be guaranteed 3% of the system together
> 	--within the maintenance tasks, my network heartbeat application is the 
> most latency sensitive, so I want it to be higher-priority than the 
> other maintenance tasks

The latency issue is hard.

>  From my point of view, task group cpu allocation and relative task 
> priority should be orthogonal.
> 
> First you pick a task group (based on cpu share, priority, etc.) then 
> within the group you pick the task with highest priority.
> 
> This was something that CKRM did right (IMHO).

I'd really like to see what Kiril's suggestion looks like.

	-Mike

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Peter Williams]

Martin Ohlin wrote:
> Mike Galbraith wrote:
>> On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 06:53 +0000, Mike Galbraith wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2006-08-31 at 11:07 +1000, Peter Williams wrote:
>>>
>>>> But your implication here is valid.  It is better to fiddle with the 
>>>> dynamic priorities than with nice as this leaves nice for its 
>>>> primary purpose of enabling the sysadmin to effect the allocation of 
>>>> CPU resources based on external considerations.
>>> I don't understand.  It _is_ the administrator fiddling with nice based
>>> on external considerations.  It just steadies the administrator's hand.
>>
>> When extended to groups, I see your point.  The admin would lose his
>> ability to apportion bandwidth _within_ the group because he's already
>> turned his only knob.  That is going to be just as much of a problem for
>> other methods though, and is just a question of how much complexity you
>> want to pay to achieve fine grained control.
> 
> I do not see the problem. Let's say I create a group of three tasks and 
> give it 50% of the CPU bandwidth (perhaps by using the same nice value 
> for all the tasks in this group). If I then want to apportion the 
> bandwidth within the group as you say, then the same thing can be done 
> by treating them as individual tasks.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong, but as I see it, if one wants to control on a group 
> level, then the individual shares within the group are not that 
> important. If the individual share is important, then it should be 
> controlled on a per-task level. Please tell me if I am wrong.

It's not that the control can't be done using nice.  It's that using 
nice to do the control stops nice being used for its original purpose. 
Some may not see that as a problem BUT some will.

Peter
-- 
Peter Williams                                   pwil3058@bigpond.net.au

"Learning, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious."
  -- Ambrose Bierce

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Martin Ohlin]

Balbir Singh wrote:

> The CKRM e-series is a PID based CPU Controller. It did a good job of
> controlling and smoothing out the load (and variations) and even
> worked with groups. But it achieved all this through some amount of
> complexity.

I have now downloaded and looked at the code you refer to. But as far as 
I can see, the PID controller is only used for load balancing between 
CPUs, not for controlling the bandwidth/time of individual tasks. Is 
this correct or did I miss something?

/Martin

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Balbir Singh]

Martin Ohlin wrote:
> Balbir Singh wrote:
> 
>> The CKRM e-series is a PID based CPU Controller. It did a good job of
>> controlling and smoothing out the load (and variations) and even
>> worked with groups. But it achieved all this through some amount of
>> complexity.
> 
> I have now downloaded and looked at the code you refer to. But as far as 
> I can see, the PID controller is only used for load balancing between 
> CPUs, not for controlling the bandwidth/time of individual tasks. Is 
> this correct or did I miss something?
> 
> /Martin

Yes, the PID controller is used for load balancing.

-- 

	Balbir Singh,
	Linux Technology Center,
	IBM Software Labs

Re: A nice CPU resource controller

[Peter Grandi]

>>> On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:14:13 +0200, Martin Ohlin
>>> <martin.ohlin@control.lth.se> said:

martin.ohlin> To those interested I have been working on a CPU
martin.ohlin> resource controller using the nice value as a
martin.ohlin> control signal. At the moment, the control is done
martin.ohlin> on a per-task-level, but I have plans to extend it
martin.ohlin> to groups of tasks. [ ... ]

This reminds me of fair share schedulers, which were popular
some decades ago on mainframes and early UNIX systems.

* G. J. Henry "The fair share scheduler AT&T", Bell
  Lab.Tech. J. 1845-1857 63, 8 (Oct.).

* Judy Kay, Piers Lauder "A Fair Share Scheduler CACM", 31:1,
  44-55 January 1988. <http://WWW.CS.USyd.edu.AU/~piers/>

* %A J. Larmouth
  %T Scheduling for a share of the machine
  %J SPE
  %V 5
  %N 1
  %D JAN 1975
  %P 29-49
  %X <URL:http://WWW.CL.Cam.ac.UK/TechReports/UCAM-CL-TR-2.pdf>

* %A J. Larmouth
  %T Scheduling for immediate turnround
  %J SPE
  %V 8
  %D 1978
  %P 559-578