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From: Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>
To: tridge@samba.org
Cc: davids@webmaster.com,
	James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@SteelEye.com>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: GPLv3 Position Statement
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:20:48 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <451D9C40.6070008@garzik.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <17693.37937.928098.495836@samba.org>

tridge@samba.org wrote:
> So when I saw Linus advocating forking programs that are currently "v2
> or later" and making them "v2 only", then I asked that he clarify to
> ensure that the major contributors to the project be consulted before
> doing that. Whether it is legal is beside the point - it is good
> manners to follow the ground rules of the people who write the code.
> 
> Thankfully Linus has clarified that now in a later posting. I was
> already pretty sure he always intended for the major contributors to
> be consulted before a fork was done, but I'm glad its on the record so
> people don't start forking madly while flying a "Linus said its OK"
> banner :)


It's good manners, but ultimately users vote with their feet.

If codebase A requires that modifications be given back (GPL v2), and 
codebase A' additionally requires embedded device makers to permit users 
to use modified code in all cases, which do you think device makers -- 
and ultimately users -- will choose?

For a lot of kernel devs who voted, I got the sense that the DRM clause 
was the big stopping point.  I actually think the patent clauses might 
help things a bit, providing the "convey" language is cleared up.  But 
the DRM clause is far from technology-neutral, and doesn't take into 
account useful DRM.

DRM is just a technology.  It's not good or evil.  It's a bit like 
bittorrent:  arguably, the majority of BT usage is for copyright 
violations, but there are good uses for it too.

Further, the GPL v3 gets _too specific_ when it comes to talking about 
technological remedies.  It gets into the same trouble that politicians 
get into, when they write technological remedies into law.  Technology 
changes too rapidly to get specific.  Pretty soon you'll find that a 
useful scenario was outlawed.

	Jeff

  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-09-30 12:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 186+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-09-29  3:01 GPLv3 Position Statement James Bottomley
2006-09-29  4:40 ` Neil Brown
2006-09-29  6:56   ` James Bottomley
2006-09-29  7:48     ` tridge
2006-09-29  9:37       ` David Schwartz
2006-09-29 10:08       ` Samuel Tardieu
2006-09-29 12:59       ` Alan Cox
2006-09-29 14:36       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-30 15:32       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2006-09-30 16:59         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-30 22:16         ` tridge
2006-09-29 11:59     ` Sanjoy Mahajan
2006-09-29 14:54     ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-09-29 21:46       ` tridge
     [not found]         ` <20060929180323.d2c0d2ee.seanlkml@sympatico.ca>
2006-09-29 22:03           ` Sean
2006-09-29 22:20         ` Jeff Garzik [this message]
2006-09-29  5:51 ` tridge
2006-09-29  7:31   ` James Bottomley
2006-09-29 12:08     ` Sanjoy Mahajan
2006-09-29 20:50       ` James Bottomley
2006-09-29  7:31   ` James Bottomley
2006-09-29  8:09     ` tridge
2006-09-29 20:28       ` James Bottomley
2006-09-29  8:53     ` tridge
2006-09-29  9:37       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-29  9:52         ` tridge
2006-09-30  0:56           ` James Bottomley
2006-09-29 19:50       ` James Bottomley
2006-09-30  7:05         ` tridge
2006-09-30 15:06           ` James Bottomley
2006-10-01  6:28             ` tridge
2006-10-01 15:45               ` James Bottomley
2006-10-01 16:48                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-09-30 21:11         ` David Lang
2006-09-30 22:29           ` Michiel de Boer
2006-10-01  6:52           ` tridge
2006-09-29  7:32   ` David Woodhouse
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-09-27  9:43 Nicolas Mailhot
2006-09-27 17:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-27 20:34   ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-09-27 20:41     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-27 21:01       ` Krzysztof Halasa
2006-09-27 23:01       ` Alan Cox
2006-09-27 23:04         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-27 23:07         ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-09-28  7:36         ` Andi Kleen
2006-09-25 10:02 tridge
2006-09-22 16:15 James Bottomley
2006-09-22 16:16 ` James Bottomley
     [not found] ` <200609221359.39519.gene.heskett@verizon.net>
2006-09-22 18:08   ` James Bottomley
2006-09-22 18:30     ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-22 18:34       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-22 18:52         ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-22 19:05       ` Alan Cox
2006-09-22 18:54         ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-25  6:33       ` Marc Perkel
2006-09-22 20:42 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-23 11:38 ` Florian Weimer
2006-09-25  8:53 ` Michiel de Boer
2006-09-25  9:06   ` Russell King
2006-09-25 10:51   ` Neil Brown
2006-09-25 11:31     ` Alan Cox
2006-09-25 16:10       ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-09-29 10:15         ` Helge Hafting
2006-09-29 11:07           ` Alan Cox
2006-09-29 14:02           ` Stephen Clark
2006-09-29 16:51           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 17:47             ` Alan Cox
2006-09-29 17:49               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 18:17                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 18:26                 ` Alan Cox
2006-09-29 18:27                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 18:40                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 19:59                       ` alan
2006-09-29 20:06                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 20:21                           ` alan
2006-09-29 20:32                             ` alan
2006-09-29 23:12                               ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-29 23:25                                 ` Randy Dunlap
2006-09-29 23:53                                   ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-30  0:31                                     ` Vadim Lobanov
2006-09-30  3:36                                       ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-30  4:37                                         ` Vadim Lobanov
2006-09-30  4:54                                           ` Randy Dunlap
2006-09-30  6:10                                             ` Vadim Lobanov
2006-09-29 21:11                             ` Chris Smith
2006-09-29 21:33                               ` alan
2006-09-29 20:51                           ` alan
2006-09-29 21:25                       ` Theodore Tso
2006-09-29 21:29                       ` Alan Cox
2006-10-02  8:46             ` Helge Hafting
2006-09-29 19:43           ` jdow
2006-09-30 18:38           ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-09-30 20:49             ` Alan Cox
2006-09-30 20:38               ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-09-25 14:27     ` Lee Revell
2006-09-25 19:05       ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-25 20:58       ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-25 22:10         ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-09-26 21:32       ` Oleg Verych
2006-09-25 19:46     ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-25 21:10       ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-25 11:11   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-25 14:12   ` James Bottomley
2006-09-25 16:50   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-25 17:26   ` James Bottomley
2006-09-25 15:30 ` Xavier Bestel
2006-09-27  1:11 ` Sergey Panov
2006-09-27  5:55   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-27  7:36     ` Sergey Panov
2006-09-27  8:58       ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-27 12:19         ` Alan Cox
2006-09-27 17:28           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-27 18:37             ` Chase Venters
2006-09-27 19:11               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29 12:42                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-09-27 22:58               ` Theodore Tso
2006-09-27 23:16                 ` Chase Venters
2006-09-28  0:03                   ` Neil Brown
2006-09-28  0:08                     ` David Miller
2006-09-28  0:18                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28  0:54                     ` Patrick McFarland
2006-09-28  3:15                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28  3:47                         ` Sergey Panov
2006-09-28  4:13                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28  5:05                             ` Sergey Panov
2006-09-28  4:39                           ` Chase Venters
2006-09-28  5:13                             ` Trond Myklebust
2006-09-28  5:15                             ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-28  5:27                               ` Sergey Panov
2006-09-28  5:34                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-28  7:30                                 ` Al Viro
2006-09-28 13:55                             ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-09-28 14:19                               ` DervishD
2006-09-28 14:40                                 ` Jörn Engel
2006-09-28 14:59                                   ` DervishD
2006-09-28 15:04                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28 15:20                                     ` Jörn Engel
2006-09-28 15:31                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28 15:46                                       ` Björn Steinbrink
2006-09-28 15:24                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29  0:26                                       ` Neil Brown
2006-09-29  6:22                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29  1:34                                     ` jdow
2006-09-29  6:08                                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-29  7:07                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-29  7:18                                       ` David Schwartz
2006-09-29  2:29                                   ` David Schwartz
2006-09-29  2:45                                     ` Neil Brown
2006-09-29  3:05                                       ` Björn Steinbrink
2006-09-29  3:31                                         ` David Schwartz
2006-09-29  5:37                                           ` Björn Steinbrink
2006-09-29  7:18                                       ` David Schwartz
     [not found]                                     ` <20060928225008.ded4fa2c.seanlkml@sympatico.ca>
2006-09-29  2:50                                       ` Sean
2006-09-29  7:18                                         ` David Schwartz
2006-09-28 14:51                                 ` Simon Oosthoek
2006-09-28 15:07                                   ` DervishD
2006-09-28 15:38                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28 18:34                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28 17:16                         ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-09-28 18:59                           ` Segher Boessenkool
2006-09-28 19:34                             ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-09-28 20:01                               ` Oleg Verych
2006-09-28 23:12                                 ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-29  8:04                           ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-28  1:35                     ` Al Viro
2006-09-28  3:13                       ` Sergey Panov
2006-09-28  3:36                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28  1:53                     ` Alan Cox
2006-09-28  9:41                     ` Jörn Engel
2006-09-28  9:55                       ` Jeff Garzik
2006-09-28 14:45                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28 15:19                           ` Alan Cox
2006-09-28 14:40                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28  2:34                   ` Gene Heskett
2006-09-28  8:04             ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-28 13:50               ` Christer Weinigel
2006-09-28 20:43               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-27 18:01         ` Theodore Tso
2006-09-27 12:32     ` Theodore Tso
2006-09-27 21:05       ` David Schwartz
2006-09-29 12:47       ` Pavel Machek
2006-09-27 17:00     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-09-28  8:18       ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-09-28  9:39       ` Samuel Tardieu
2006-09-27 16:08   ` Greg KH

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