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From: Phillip Susi <psusi@cfl.rr.com>
To: Viktor <vvp01@inbox.ru>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>, Aubrey <aubreylee@gmail.com>,
	Hua Zhong <hzhong@gmail.com>, Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, hch@infradead.org,
	kenneth.w.chen@intel.com, akpm@osdl.org, mjt@tls.msk.ru
Subject: Re: O_DIRECT question
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:53:32 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <45A65D7C.2040206@cfl.rr.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <45A629E9.70502@inbox.ru>

Viktor wrote:
> OK, madvise() used with mmap'ed file allows to have reads from a file
> with zero-copy between kernel/user buffers and don't pollute cache
> memory unnecessarily. But how about writes? How is to do zero-copy
> writes to a file and don't pollute cache memory without using O_DIRECT?
> Do I miss the appropriate interface?

Not only that but mmap/madvise do not allow you to perform async io. 
You still have to just try and touch the memory and take the page fault 
to cause a read.  This is unacceptable to an application that is trying 
to manage multiple IO streams and keep the pipelines full; it needs to 
block only when there is no more work it can do.

Even with only a single io stream the application needs to keep one side 
reading and one side writing.  To make this work without O_DIRECT would 
require a method to asynchronously fault pages in, and the kernel would 
have to utilize that method when processing aio writes so as not to 
block the calling process if the buffer it asked to write is not in 
memory.

I was rather disappointed years ago by NT's lack of an async page fault 
path, which prevented me from developing an ftp server that could do 
zero copy IO, but still use the filesystem cache and avoid NT's version 
of O_DIRECT.



  reply	other threads:[~2007-01-11 15:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 130+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-01-11  2:57 O_DIRECT question Aubrey
2007-01-11  3:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11  3:15   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11  6:09     ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11 15:50       ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 16:19         ` Aubrey
2007-01-16  3:41           ` Jörn Engel
2007-01-11 16:23         ` bert hubert
2007-01-11 16:52         ` Xavier Bestel
2007-01-11 17:04           ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 18:41             ` Trond Myklebust
2007-01-11 19:00               ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 19:49                 ` Trond Myklebust
2007-01-12 17:03             ` Viktor
2007-01-20 16:19         ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-22 15:52           ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-11  5:50   ` Aubrey
2007-01-11  6:06     ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-11  6:45       ` Aubrey
2007-01-11  6:57         ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-11  7:05           ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11  7:54             ` Aubrey
2007-01-11  8:05               ` Roy Huang
2007-01-11 16:45                 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-17  4:29                   ` Aubrey Li
2007-01-12  2:12                 ` Aubrey
2007-01-12  2:47                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  3:59                   ` Roy Huang
2007-01-11  8:12               ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11  8:49                 ` Roy Huang
2007-01-11  9:09                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  2:48                 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-12  4:30                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  4:46                     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12  4:56                       ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  4:58                         ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  5:18                         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12  5:22                         ` Aubrey
2007-01-12 14:59                           ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-13  4:51                             ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11  6:16     ` Alexander Shishkin
2007-01-11  6:57       ` Aubrey
2007-01-11 12:13   ` Viktor
2007-01-11 15:53     ` Phillip Susi [this message]
2007-01-11 16:20     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 17:13       ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-11 23:01         ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-11 23:06           ` Hua Zhong
2007-01-12 15:21             ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-20 16:36         ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-20 20:55           ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-20 23:05             ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-21 12:09               ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-21 20:02                 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-22 16:17                   ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-24 21:15                     ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-25 15:44                       ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-25 17:38                         ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-25 19:28                           ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-25 19:52                             ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-25 20:03                               ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-25 20:45                                 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-25 21:11                                   ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-26 16:02                                     ` Mark Lord
2007-01-26 16:52                                       ` Viktor
2007-01-26 16:58                                       ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-26 17:05                                     ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-26 23:16                                       ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-02-06 20:39                                         ` Pavel Machek
2007-01-26 18:23                                     ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-26 23:35                                       ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-28 15:18                                         ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-28 17:03                                           ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-29 15:43                                             ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-29 17:00                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-30  0:05                                               ` Denis Vlasenko
     [not found]                                               ` <45BE7D99.70200@cfl.rr.com>
     [not found]                                                 ` <20070130023056.GN8030@opteron.random>
     [not found]                                                   ` <45BF65E3.6070102@cfl.rr.com>
     [not found]                                                     ` <20070130164806.GQ8030@opteron.random>
2007-01-30 18:50                                                       ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-30 19:57                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-30 20:06                                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-30 23:07                                                           ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-31  2:28                                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-31  9:37                                                             ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-26 15:53                   ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-11 17:42       ` Alan
2007-01-11 18:00         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12  7:57       ` dean gaudet
2007-01-12 15:27         ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-12 18:06         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 20:23           ` Chris Mason
2007-01-12 20:46             ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 20:52               ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 21:03                 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 21:17                   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 21:54                     ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 22:09                       ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 22:26                         ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 22:35                         ` Erik Andersen
2007-01-12 22:47                           ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-14  9:11                             ` Nate Diller
2007-01-20 16:45                               ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-22  1:47                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-13 20:07                     ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-13 20:27                       ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-14 15:39                         ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-12 21:39                   ` Disk Cache, Was: " Zan Lynx
2007-01-12 22:10                     ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-15 12:11               ` Helge Hafting
2007-01-12 16:59       ` Viktor
2007-01-11 12:45   ` Erik Mouw
2007-01-11  4:51 ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-11  5:06   ` Gerrit Huizenga
2007-01-11 16:09   ` Badari Pulavarty
2007-01-11 12:34 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-01-11 13:06   ` Martin Mares
2007-01-11 14:15   ` Jens Axboe
2007-01-12  2:13   ` Bill Davidsen
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-01-17 14:27 Alex Tomas
2007-01-22 15:59 Al Boldi
     [not found] <7BYkO-5OV-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <7BYul-6gz-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <7C18X-1zo-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7C1iw-22q-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <7C1Vb-2Ny-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]         ` <7C256-2ZR-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]           ` <7C2eE-3rT-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]             ` <7C31d-4qb-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]               ` <7C3kj-55E-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-11 13:20                 ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found]   ` <7C74B-2A4-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7CaYA-mT-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <7Cpuz-64X-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]         ` <7Cz0T-4PH-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]           ` <7CBcl-86B-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]             ` <7CBvH-52-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]               ` <7CBFn-hw-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]                 ` <7CBP1-KI-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]                   ` <7CBYG-WK-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-13 16:53                     ` Bodo Eggert
2007-01-13 19:30                       ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-14 18:51                         ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found]                     ` <7CXmz-88G-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]                       ` <7CXFR-8vZ-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]                         ` <7DfMP-2ak-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-14 19:39                           ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found]               ` <7DyYK-6lE-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-16 20:26                 ` Bodo Eggert
2007-01-17  5:55                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-01-17 22:36                     ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found] ` <7HkaQ-2Nb-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <7HDZP-Pv-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7HIPV-8kp-35@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-27 14:01       ` Bodo Eggert
2007-01-27 14:14         ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-28 15:30           ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-28 17:18             ` Denis Vlasenko

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