From: Phillip Susi <psusi@cfl.rr.com>
To: Denis Vlasenko <vda.linux@googlemail.com>
Cc: Michael Tokarev <mjt@tls.msk.ru>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>, Viktor <vvp01@inbox.ru>,
Aubrey <aubreylee@gmail.com>, Hua Zhong <hzhong@gmail.com>,
Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, hch@infradead.org,
kenneth.w.chen@in
Subject: Re: O_DIRECT question
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:44:01 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <45B8D041.8050507@cfl.rr.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200701242215.47777.vda.linux@googlemail.com>
Denis Vlasenko wrote:
> I will still disagree on this point (on point "use O_DIRECT, it's faster").
> There is no reason why O_DIRECT should be faster than "normal" read/write
> to large, aligned buffer. If O_DIRECT is faster on today's kernel,
> then Linux' read()/write() can be optimized more.
Ahh but there IS a reason for it to be faster: the application knows
what data it will require, so it should tell the kernel rather than ask
it to guess. Even if you had the kernel playing vmsplice games to get
avoid the copy to user space ( which still has a fair amount of overhead
), then you still have the problem of the kernel having to guess what
data the application will require next, and try to fetch it early. Then
when the application requests the data, if it is not already in memory,
the application blocks until it is, and blocking stalls the pipeline.
> (I hoped that they can be made even *faster* than O_DIRECT, but as I said,
> you convinced me with your "error reporting" argument that reads must still
> block until entire buffer is read. Writes can avoid that - apps can do
> fdatasync/whatever to make sync writes & error checks if they want).
fdatasync() is not acceptable either because it flushes the entire file.
This does not allow the application to control the ordering of various
writes unless it limits itself to a single write/fdatasync pair at a
time. Further, fdatasync again blocks the application.
With aio, the application can keep several read/writes going in
parallel, thus keeping the pipeline full. Even if the io were not
O_DIRECT, and the kernel played vmsplice games to avoid the copy, it
would still have more overhead, complexity and I think, very little gain
in most cases.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-01-25 15:44 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 130+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-01-11 2:57 O_DIRECT question Aubrey
2007-01-11 3:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 3:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 6:09 ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11 15:50 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 16:19 ` Aubrey
2007-01-16 3:41 ` Jörn Engel
2007-01-11 16:23 ` bert hubert
2007-01-11 16:52 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-01-11 17:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 18:41 ` Trond Myklebust
2007-01-11 19:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 19:49 ` Trond Myklebust
2007-01-12 17:03 ` Viktor
2007-01-20 16:19 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-22 15:52 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-11 5:50 ` Aubrey
2007-01-11 6:06 ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-11 6:45 ` Aubrey
2007-01-11 6:57 ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-11 7:05 ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11 7:54 ` Aubrey
2007-01-11 8:05 ` Roy Huang
2007-01-11 16:45 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-17 4:29 ` Aubrey Li
2007-01-12 2:12 ` Aubrey
2007-01-12 2:47 ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12 3:59 ` Roy Huang
2007-01-11 8:12 ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11 8:49 ` Roy Huang
2007-01-11 9:09 ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12 2:48 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-12 4:30 ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12 4:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 4:56 ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12 4:58 ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12 5:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 5:22 ` Aubrey
2007-01-12 14:59 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-13 4:51 ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11 6:16 ` Alexander Shishkin
2007-01-11 6:57 ` Aubrey
2007-01-11 12:13 ` Viktor
2007-01-11 15:53 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-11 16:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 17:13 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-11 23:01 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-11 23:06 ` Hua Zhong
2007-01-12 15:21 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-20 16:36 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-20 20:55 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-20 23:05 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-21 12:09 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-21 20:02 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-22 16:17 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-24 21:15 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-25 15:44 ` Phillip Susi [this message]
2007-01-25 17:38 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-25 19:28 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-25 19:52 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-25 20:03 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-25 20:45 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-25 21:11 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-26 16:02 ` Mark Lord
2007-01-26 16:52 ` Viktor
2007-01-26 16:58 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-26 17:05 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-26 23:16 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-02-06 20:39 ` Pavel Machek
2007-01-26 18:23 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-26 23:35 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-28 15:18 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-28 17:03 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-29 15:43 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-29 17:00 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-30 0:05 ` Denis Vlasenko
[not found] ` <45BE7D99.70200@cfl.rr.com>
[not found] ` <20070130023056.GN8030@opteron.random>
[not found] ` <45BF65E3.6070102@cfl.rr.com>
[not found] ` <20070130164806.GQ8030@opteron.random>
2007-01-30 18:50 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-30 19:57 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-30 20:06 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-30 23:07 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-31 2:28 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-31 9:37 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-26 15:53 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-11 17:42 ` Alan
2007-01-11 18:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 7:57 ` dean gaudet
2007-01-12 15:27 ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-12 18:06 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 20:23 ` Chris Mason
2007-01-12 20:46 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 20:52 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 21:03 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 21:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 21:54 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 22:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 22:26 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 22:35 ` Erik Andersen
2007-01-12 22:47 ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-14 9:11 ` Nate Diller
2007-01-20 16:45 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-22 1:47 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-13 20:07 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-13 20:27 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-14 15:39 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-12 21:39 ` Disk Cache, Was: " Zan Lynx
2007-01-12 22:10 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-15 12:11 ` Helge Hafting
2007-01-12 16:59 ` Viktor
2007-01-11 12:45 ` Erik Mouw
2007-01-11 4:51 ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-11 5:06 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2007-01-11 16:09 ` Badari Pulavarty
2007-01-11 12:34 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-01-11 13:06 ` Martin Mares
2007-01-11 14:15 ` Jens Axboe
2007-01-12 2:13 ` Bill Davidsen
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-01-17 14:27 Alex Tomas
2007-01-22 15:59 Al Boldi
[not found] <7BYkO-5OV-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7BYul-6gz-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7C18X-1zo-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7C1iw-22q-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7C1Vb-2Ny-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7C256-2ZR-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7C2eE-3rT-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7C31d-4qb-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7C3kj-55E-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-11 13:20 ` Bodo Eggert
[not found] ` <7C74B-2A4-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7CaYA-mT-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7Cpuz-64X-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7Cz0T-4PH-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7CBcl-86B-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7CBvH-52-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7CBFn-hw-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7CBP1-KI-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7CBYG-WK-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-13 16:53 ` Bodo Eggert
2007-01-13 19:30 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-14 18:51 ` Bodo Eggert
[not found] ` <7CXmz-88G-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7CXFR-8vZ-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7DfMP-2ak-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-14 19:39 ` Bodo Eggert
[not found] ` <7DyYK-6lE-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-16 20:26 ` Bodo Eggert
2007-01-17 5:55 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-01-17 22:36 ` Bodo Eggert
[not found] ` <7HkaQ-2Nb-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7HDZP-Pv-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7HIPV-8kp-35@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-27 14:01 ` Bodo Eggert
2007-01-27 14:14 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-28 15:30 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-28 17:18 ` Denis Vlasenko
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