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From: Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Cc: Michael Tokarev <mjt@tls.msk.ru>, Phillip Susi <psusi@cfl.rr.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>, Viktor <vvp01@inbox.ru>,
	Aubrey <aubreylee@gmail.com>, Hua Zhong <hzhong@gmail.com>,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, hch@infradead.org,
	kenneth.w.chen@in
Subject: Re: O_DIRECT question
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:18:38 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <45BCBECE.4080405@tmr.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200701270035.31285.vda.linux@googlemail.com>

Denis Vlasenko wrote:
> On Friday 26 January 2007 19:23, Bill Davidsen wrote:
>> Denis Vlasenko wrote:
>>> On Thursday 25 January 2007 21:45, Michael Tokarev wrote:
>>>> Phillip Susi wrote:

	[...]

>>>> But even single-threaded I/O but in large quantities benefits from O_DIRECT
>>>> significantly, and I pointed this out before.
>>> Which shouldn't be true. There is no fundamental reason why
>>> ordinary writes should be slower than O_DIRECT.
>>>
>> Other than the copy to buffer taking CPU and memory resources.
> 
> It is not required by any standard that I know. Kernel can be smarter
> and avoid that if it can.

Actually, no, the whole idea of page cache is that overall system i/o 
can be faster if data sit in the page cache for a while. But the real 
problem is that the application write is now disconnected from the 
physical write, both in time and order.

No standard says the kernel couldn't do direct DMA, but since having 
that required is needed to guarantee write order and error status linked 
to the actual application i/o, what a kernel "might do" is irrelevant.

It's much easier to do O_DIRECT by actually doing the direct i/o than to 
try to catch all the corner cases which arise in faking it.

-- 
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
   "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot


  reply	other threads:[~2007-01-28 15:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 130+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-01-11  2:57 O_DIRECT question Aubrey
2007-01-11  3:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11  3:15   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11  6:09     ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11 15:50       ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 16:19         ` Aubrey
2007-01-16  3:41           ` Jörn Engel
2007-01-11 16:23         ` bert hubert
2007-01-11 16:52         ` Xavier Bestel
2007-01-11 17:04           ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 18:41             ` Trond Myklebust
2007-01-11 19:00               ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 19:49                 ` Trond Myklebust
2007-01-12 17:03             ` Viktor
2007-01-20 16:19         ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-22 15:52           ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-11  5:50   ` Aubrey
2007-01-11  6:06     ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-11  6:45       ` Aubrey
2007-01-11  6:57         ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-11  7:05           ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11  7:54             ` Aubrey
2007-01-11  8:05               ` Roy Huang
2007-01-11 16:45                 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-17  4:29                   ` Aubrey Li
2007-01-12  2:12                 ` Aubrey
2007-01-12  2:47                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  3:59                   ` Roy Huang
2007-01-11  8:12               ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11  8:49                 ` Roy Huang
2007-01-11  9:09                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  2:48                 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-12  4:30                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  4:46                     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12  4:56                       ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  4:58                         ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-12  5:18                         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12  5:22                         ` Aubrey
2007-01-12 14:59                           ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-13  4:51                             ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-11  6:16     ` Alexander Shishkin
2007-01-11  6:57       ` Aubrey
2007-01-11 12:13   ` Viktor
2007-01-11 15:53     ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-11 16:20     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-11 17:13       ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-11 23:01         ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-11 23:06           ` Hua Zhong
2007-01-12 15:21             ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-20 16:36         ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-20 20:55           ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-20 23:05             ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-21 12:09               ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-21 20:02                 ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-22 16:17                   ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-24 21:15                     ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-25 15:44                       ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-25 17:38                         ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-25 19:28                           ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-25 19:52                             ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-25 20:03                               ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-25 20:45                                 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-25 21:11                                   ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-26 16:02                                     ` Mark Lord
2007-01-26 16:52                                       ` Viktor
2007-01-26 16:58                                       ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-26 17:05                                     ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-26 23:16                                       ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-02-06 20:39                                         ` Pavel Machek
2007-01-26 18:23                                     ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-26 23:35                                       ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-28 15:18                                         ` Bill Davidsen [this message]
2007-01-28 17:03                                           ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-29 15:43                                             ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-29 17:00                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-30  0:05                                               ` Denis Vlasenko
     [not found]                                               ` <45BE7D99.70200@cfl.rr.com>
     [not found]                                                 ` <20070130023056.GN8030@opteron.random>
     [not found]                                                   ` <45BF65E3.6070102@cfl.rr.com>
     [not found]                                                     ` <20070130164806.GQ8030@opteron.random>
2007-01-30 18:50                                                       ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-30 19:57                                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-30 20:06                                                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-30 23:07                                                           ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-31  2:28                                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-31  9:37                                                             ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-26 15:53                   ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-11 17:42       ` Alan
2007-01-11 18:00         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12  7:57       ` dean gaudet
2007-01-12 15:27         ` Phillip Susi
2007-01-12 18:06         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 20:23           ` Chris Mason
2007-01-12 20:46             ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 20:52               ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 21:03                 ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 21:17                   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 21:54                     ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 22:09                       ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-12 22:26                         ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-12 22:35                         ` Erik Andersen
2007-01-12 22:47                           ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-14  9:11                             ` Nate Diller
2007-01-20 16:45                               ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-22  1:47                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2007-01-13 20:07                     ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-13 20:27                       ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-14 15:39                         ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-12 21:39                   ` Disk Cache, Was: " Zan Lynx
2007-01-12 22:10                     ` Michael Tokarev
2007-01-15 12:11               ` Helge Hafting
2007-01-12 16:59       ` Viktor
2007-01-11 12:45   ` Erik Mouw
2007-01-11  4:51 ` Andrew Morton
2007-01-11  5:06   ` Gerrit Huizenga
2007-01-11 16:09   ` Badari Pulavarty
2007-01-11 12:34 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-01-11 13:06   ` Martin Mares
2007-01-11 14:15   ` Jens Axboe
2007-01-12  2:13   ` Bill Davidsen
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-01-17 14:27 Alex Tomas
2007-01-22 15:59 Al Boldi
     [not found] <7BYkO-5OV-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <7BYul-6gz-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <7C18X-1zo-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7C1iw-22q-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <7C1Vb-2Ny-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]         ` <7C256-2ZR-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]           ` <7C2eE-3rT-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]             ` <7C31d-4qb-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]               ` <7C3kj-55E-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-11 13:20                 ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found]   ` <7C74B-2A4-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7CaYA-mT-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <7Cpuz-64X-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]         ` <7Cz0T-4PH-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]           ` <7CBcl-86B-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]             ` <7CBvH-52-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]               ` <7CBFn-hw-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]                 ` <7CBP1-KI-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]                   ` <7CBYG-WK-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-13 16:53                     ` Bodo Eggert
2007-01-13 19:30                       ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-14 18:51                         ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found]                     ` <7CXmz-88G-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]                       ` <7CXFR-8vZ-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]                         ` <7DfMP-2ak-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-14 19:39                           ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found]               ` <7DyYK-6lE-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-16 20:26                 ` Bodo Eggert
2007-01-17  5:55                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-01-17 22:36                     ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found] ` <7HkaQ-2Nb-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <7HDZP-Pv-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7HIPV-8kp-35@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-01-27 14:01       ` Bodo Eggert
2007-01-27 14:14         ` Denis Vlasenko
2007-01-28 15:30           ` Bill Davidsen
2007-01-28 17:18             ` Denis Vlasenko

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